[Kacey2]

As I sit and struggle with my decision to say adios T it is too much work for this relationship. (hate T thread) I find it very interesting that the most popular forum on this whole website is pyschotherapy. I have to say it makes me think a lot about the whole therapy concept and how much of a struggle it is for all of us. I wonder if T's knew how much behind the scenes hurt and frusteration there is if they would rethink the idea of the risks vs benefits of their services. Now I don't want to come accross as a therapy hater, I simply am wondering if they are truly ignorant to this aspect of their services. What do you think?

A quick update to my last thread. My T is coming back from vacation and I have an appointment scheduled for Weds. I did call him before he left in a panic attack about him leaving and how he had abruptly turned off the coaching phone the weeks before with out talking about it to me at all. Long story..........I guess I broke down in the desperate feelings of abandonment. Now I have not talked to him for a while but I will probably go to my appointment and feel mad and distant at first and who knows what will happen after that.

[sick]

You have aright to those feeling let T know just how hurt you were. I think therapy with the right T does help I hope you session goes well i do but don't hold anything back okay let it all out take care

[Melbadaze]

i wonder if its sometimes the other way around' the client goes into therapy truely ignorant/unaware of what therapy really means?

[Kacey2]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

i wonder if its sometimes the other way around' the client goes into therapy truely ignorant/unaware of what therapy really means?

Good point Melbadaze. I definately was unaware of what 'true' therapy was.

[WikidPissah]

I pretty much suck at T...so this is just a lame thought...not an answer.
Most people want to "feel" that they are special to their T...I notice this a lot in posts. The truth is, no matter how good your T is...this is not possible. T is a "paid for" service. T has many customers. So this is kind of just a pipe dream, isn't it? What if we realize honestly that we are there simply to fix us, and not to have a new best friend, or to "feel" special?

[WePow]

I think that a client goes to the T because they need T. They are going to be "needy" "clingy" "full of emotions" "ton of bagage" "resistant" and everything else anyeone wants to put into the mix. A person who goes into therapy does not usually know what to expect, how to do therapy, what not to do in therapy, or how to help themselves. If a client knew all of that, there would usually not be a need to have a T.

This is the fact. A T expects all of this. They know it going into the field because it is one of the very first college courses they have to take. :-) My college T told me this because one of my first complaints was that I would not be able to "do" therapy because I didn't know how. He said "That is the good thing about therapy, you don't have to know anything about it. That is MY job!"

For me, learning how to do therapy was the first part of my healing journey. And it took years and a lot of pain to learn how to do therapy. And I still am learning. But it is not really learning how to do therapy - it is learning how to live. It is learning how to have a healthy relationship. And that is what T is going to show us.

T's do have a lot of clients, but they also know how vital they are to our developement. And they do think about us and how to help us out. They are invested in our success because they do care.

When we are being a typical "needy" client, and T is being a good T and allowing us to sit in our emotions for a while if that is what we need to do, it can hurt emotionally and it can bring up the past pains. As a child, a good parent may allow the child to cry themselves to sleep at night - they will not rush in and hold the baby every time the baby wimpers. If they did that, the child would never learn how to self-soothe. However, there are some times when a child is hungry or needs changes or is sick and the baby is crying. A good parent knows how to interpret the cries of their baby. ((we are the babies to our Ts)). The good T will provide the client with what is NEEDED. * Like last night when my T called me back when I did need him. A bad parent though may be drunk or not even in the house and they will not give the baby what is needed. This is neglect.

To a baby, crying is crying. The brain of a child has not yet develped a way of separating a NEED from a WANT. The emotions that go along with the crying are the exact same in both situations (going to sleep and wanting to be held or having a rash that needs medication).

Emotional babies live inside most adults who are therapy. That is why I have my little girl picture on my profile. My T is directly responsible for teaching ME as an adult how to nurish, protect, and teach my little emotional child inside. But the only way for him to do this is to lead by example. If I feel needy at 7pm and just want to curl up emotionally in my T's lap, I will yern for him. I will email him. I cry out to be held. But T knows that I am not sick. He knows I am uncomfortable though. But he has to allow me to sit in the emotion. He can't respond to that type of a cry because if he did so, he would be a very bad parent - a bad T.

On the client's end, this can hurt because it feels like another situation where we had a need - where as a child we may have been left in the crib for too many hours by a bad parent - and we will go through the emotions of hating our T or feeling bad about ourselves. All of the past comes into the present at this point. And as a client, we have a hard time figuring out why we hurt this much "just because we want our T to tell us for the one thousandth time that she will come back in seven days" .

All of this is NORMAL. And all of this is exactly what therapy is about. This is the learning process. This is DOING therapy.

The only thing a client really needs to do is:

1) Show up. T can't help if T is not allowed to be in our lives. ** and if you feel you do have a T who is not a good match or may be one of the bad Ts out there - you NEED to find a new T because without being able to BE with a T, you will not heal.

2) Be HONEST. No matter what it is, be honest with T. A baby is honest. A child learns to lie in order to protect themselves. You have to allow yourself to go back to the first stage of life. If you want to cry, cry. Let T hear you. Your job as a client is to show clearly and truthfully everything you are inside. Let it all hang out.

3) Allow T to be the T. Allow yourself to be parented again.

That is what I have learned and continue to learn along this journey.

[123crazyornot]

I get what you are saying. I have my second therapist first appt on Wed. First time in 3 years after my assessment last time deemed that I would not respond well to therapy. They were right but things haven't really changed in that perspective so just have to see how it goes I guess. I get the feelings of hopelessness after every PDoc session which normally gets me really depressed for a few weeks. I understand the premis of "not feeling special", but the reality is that we are not looking to feel "special", just listened to! I don't know why I'm going to be honest!

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

i wonder if its sometimes the other way around' the client goes into therapy truely ignorant/unaware of what therapy really means?

this was really, really true for me.
I never realized how much hard work it could be,
how painful it could be,
how long it could take;
on the other hand I never had seen my life for what it was;
never understood myself at all;
never knew there could be anyone in the world who could really listen non-judgmentally, much less one who knew enough to help me make sense of things, help me straighten myself out.
It is an experience like nothing else.
Sometimes I wish I would just quit;
but I know I won't; what I am really wishing is that I had done this 25 yrs ago.

[Kacey2]

Originally Posted by Eileen2010

I pretty much suck at T...so this is just a lame thought...not an answer.
Most people want to "feel" that they are special to their T...I notice this a lot in posts. The truth is, no matter how good your T is...this is not possible. T is a "paid for" service. T has many customers. So this is kind of just a pipe dream, isn't it? What if we realize honestly that we are there simply to fix us, and not to have a new best friend, or to "feel" special?

Eileen I didn't go to therapy in search of a new best friend or to feel special. I went to someone who was supposed to be really good at anger issues. I certainly didn't walk into this with those silly thoughts. The affects of wanting more came a lot futher down the road in this therapy journey. I know that when I read other posts this is something near and dear to many other people on this site. It is an amazingly difficult relationship to navigate through. I have never been in a relationship as difficult and weird as one that is between therapist and client. That was never articulated to me at the beginning of therapy..................I was ignorant for sure but certainly in a million years never expected to feel like this.

[WikidPissah]

Originally Posted by Kacey2

Eileen I didn't go to therapy in search of a new best friend or to feel special. I went to someone who was supposed to be really good at anger issues. I certainly didn't walk into this with those silly thoughts. T

Kacey...I am really sorry, please forgive me. I didn't mean to infer that it was silly to think of T as a friend. I wrote out of my own frustration an thoughts. I am/have been in a crappy place, and I am so sorry if my thoughts came across wrong. I don't think it's wrong to be close to your T...just frustrated that I can't get there.

[Kacey2]

WePow that was a great post. Thank you for your thoughts on this. What I find difficult is the need to be reparented. YES I desperately need it. I did not get it when I was a child. I do often feel embarrassed at my deficiencies and it feels too vulnerable to be reparented by someone who is not your parent. I wish mine had done their job in the first place. It is much harder when you have to deal with this through T which is not the natural relationship that God had planned for families. I struggle with learning to grow up and learn coping skills, learn to trust humans, learn to connect, learn love, learn to live in this world, learn to not dissociate, learn to live with my voices. I am rambling..............I am hurting. Just had my appointment with my T we had been on break for almost 3 weeks. So much I could say on that. Maybe another post. Yes WePow your insight on therapy and your relationship with your T inspire me to keep going. To explore my feeling of hate and jealousy towards my T. Keep writing about things. I read and like.

[WePow]

(((((((Kacey)))))))))) I am so sorry you are hurting :-(
I will look for your next post about your session.

You are worth the energy you are putting into your healing.
You can do it and you can make it.
There is nothing wrong with needing what is needed.

One day I was sitting in my car getting ready to go into session and I was watching the little birds eating out of the feeder outside my T's office window. As I watched their innocence in taking what was provided by my T - something they needed - I was struck with how we are just like the birds. I go to my T's office to get the emotional food I need in order to live, survive, and thrive. The only difference between the birds and me is that I have the means to pay T back for the birdseed he gives me! :-)

[sittingatwatersedge]

Dear WePow,
the birds sing and give T joy, that's the way they pay back.

Not to mention the lesson they teach to those who pass by, that is, those who have the eyes to see, as you did.

[jexa]

(((((Kacey))))) This is why for those of us with complex kinds of problems, especially with trust in relationships, therapy can take a long time. It takes time to allow yourself to be vulnerable enough to experience healing. It takes time to allow yourself to be reparented. Breathe into it. Moment to moment. You can't rush it -- you can't try too hard -- you just have to be. In the midst of that, the awareness of T's presence in our lives -- the awareness that we wish to move forward and make positive changes in our lives -- will allow these changes to take place.

[Kacey2]

Ok so here is the sequel to my thoughts on therapy I did go to my appointment on Wednesday after a long break with my T. He was on vacation and other things came up and it was about a 3 weeks with very little contact. I had a list of things I wanted to talk about and one of them was how he had turned off the coaching phone abruptly. I felt totally abandoned when he did that. He said since I wasn't in DBT anymore (working on my bad behaviors) than there was no coaching line because he only did that for DBT. Let me explain. I have done 1 1/2 years of DBT classes (and graduated). My T still says we are stll doing DBT because that is his treatment model for borderlines. I have decreased my bad coping skills quite a bit. There are two things that I just can not quit doing. I have been doing them as long as I can remember. I told him I did not want to work on this because I can't do it. And it would be frusterating to both of us.

The other reason for opting out of DBT is because I am uncomfortable with the whole consultation group thing. I feel like I don't have confidentiality when I am there.

Side note on this. My T's wife is a therapist as well and she works in the same office and is a part of their DBT consulting group. My therapist has told her many personal and intimate things about my past abuse and current problems. I feel so exposed. I think he feels that this is ok because of the fact that she is also on staff there. I know for a fact that my identity is not concealed when discussing my personal info. He has told me that he has consulted to clinical staffing about me numerous times and we live in a small community and everyone of those therapist there know exactly who he is talking about. I feel shame and humiliation everytime I have to go into the office. If I see someone else I stare at the floor. I am also upset because I did not invite them into my business. I used to think his office was a safe place for me but now I totally feel myself holding back because I am wondering if what I say will be repeated. It is hard to feel ok about all of this. What do you all think?

[WePow]

Kacey, first - I think you are very brave for doing the therapy and for sharing this on PC.

There is a lot here that you need to process through. It sounds like you have a solid relationship with your T, and that is hard to accomplish. You have put a ton of time and energy into it. But your emotional safety is precious. The way things are set up for you, it is almost as though you are in larger family where there are other adults in the home who know all your stuff but you don't have a relationship with those adults. Wow. That would not feel safe at all.

I think it is time to break out a can of honesty with T. Write down these concerns or just print off this post. Your emotions with all of this are valid. And any T worth their salt is going to respect a client who can bring this to the table. And the T should honestly and openly and respectfully address these concerns.

[Kacey2]

Thanks WePow. I love your posts. "Adults in the house" perfect analogy. You make me feel understood. I am going to appointment tomorrow. If you want I will let you know what happens. Have you ever had an experience with something like this? I guess I was not prepared for something like this. I always thought what was said went into a vaccuum to never left those four walls. Actually I've never had a relationship with a therapist before where I believed they even knew who I was until I showed up a week later. I could not conceive that they would remember me.

[WePow]

((((Kacey)))) It would be an honor for many of us here on PC - myself included! - to hear how it goes for you tommorow if you would like to share.

I have not had that same experience with a T, but I have that experience now at work with managers all knowing what I thought I told my manager in confidence. It is a very unsafe feeling. And there really isn't a way to be prepared for it.

Your therapy is supposed to help you heal. Unlike my work where they pay me to be there (so I have to go with their rules), you are the one obtaining a service from them. You have every right to expect certain things - and confidentiality and safety are vital for the theraputic alliance to work. So I think you are justified in stating your needs in an adult fashion.

And oddly enough, as I am finding out through my own therapy, ((with tons of thanks to Oceanwave for mentorship of me in this!)), the more clearly you express your needs and concerns to your therapist, the better they are at being able to meet those needs. They tend to appriciate clients who do this.

Now the T may not be able to match the exact needs of a client, but a good T will provide the client with solid reasoning on why they are doing something a certain way.

You are doing great.

[Kacey2]

OK so I had a good session with T with much THANKS to the support of all of you on PC. We talked about my worried thoughts about the consulting/wife therapist issue and this was his response to me in a follow up email.

*KC*,
I firmly believe vulnerability is part of counseling and generally speaking vulnerability is painful. And my experience of our session was reassuring you that you are a person and respecting the worth and dignity of your life and experiences is essential as well as an ethical part of treatment. *edit for confidentiality * I also cannot demand that you do or not do something, therapy does have a sense of reciprocity. I am not frustrated with you, an assumption about dbt is clients cannot fail. Treatment can fail, but not the client. My job is to do the best I can at finding the “right treatment”. I pray that you do not have strep and that you feel better both physically and emotionally.

Sounded pretty good to me. I also told him that I just don't know what happened in the last 6wks + because I just didn't feel like I knew him anymore and that I haven't left a session in a long time feeling that sense of connection between us. (teary) He did validate that by saying, "I've been distant." to which I nodded an affirmative yes. I also told him that I used to feel that his office was my safe place and now it doesn't feel like that anymore. He then proceded to tell me that how we could conduct our next sessions with the use of a diary card to help monitor my crazy emotions (my terminology) and work on rebuilding the trust I used to have.

WOW I feel connected and exhausted. Thanks for all the cheerleading WePow. Goodnight.

[WePow]

(((((Kacey))))) Thank YOU for doing the work! You did right by yourself and you did a great job opening up to your T honestly. You should be very proud of yourself. What you did is a mature and graceful way to handle this situation.

I am very glad you were able to feel connected again. Be sure to give yourself extra TLC today and some type of a reward for your inner child being so brave with T. And I also hope you feel better soon!

[Oceanwave]

Kacey,

I have just seen this thread and I do agree that your worry about confidentiality is a valid concern. It is not clear from your T's response whether and how this was addressed in your session. Has it been? I think it's important that you raise this with him clearly and that he respects this request in the future. Hopefully he will be able to reassure you about this. Good luck with your therapy.

Best wishes,
Oceanwave