[sittingatwatersedge]

this weekend I heard someone (who would be in somewhat of an authority position over me) extolling the virtues of "tough love". I don't know for a fact that they meant they were going to use this on me , but my hair sort of stood up.

In 1968 my folks disapproved of my brother's hippie friends and they would have justified themselves by calling it "tough love" when they took him to a barber and had his head shaved - in seconds he went from looking like Sgt Pepper to looking like a convict. He was unspeakably shamed, and wore a stocking cap to school, every day from April to the end of term; and then (more "tough love) they took him to the Naval recruiting station and signed him into the military, against his will.
He only lived to be about 55, and died an alcoholic street person, sleepig in a park.

I will have to ask T about this but am wondering (not pressing for any personal details though), does anyone on PC have someone in their current life who wants to resolve by this method, the problems you are working through with yr therapist?! Worried

[pachyderm]

As with many things, "tough love" can be used sensitively or insensitively. Like you, I react negatively to the phrase, but I can see that if used while being sensitive to the details of an actual situation, it could be used for good. On the other hand, if not used sensitively...

[venusss]

What you described was not love... not even tough one... it was abuse.

On the other hand, if somebody is not doing anything with themselves and want to be pitied... it can be useful not to join the pity party, but push them in the right direction, instead of being an enabler in their bad ways.

[Perna]

SAWE, how horrible that you had to witness your brother's humiliation that way! "Tough love" isn't a term with an agreed-upon meaning, I think lots of people like your parents use it to mean forcing someone else to conform to their will. Generally though, I think it means more of the opposite, letting someone "reap what they sow" by not helping/facilitating their bad decisions and bailing them out of trouble that they get into with their own actions.

It's more giving someone a choice to recognize they have a problem and to get professional help or one won't associate with them anymore, like with an "intervention" with an addict, for example, like a lot of the shows on TV; their relatives tell the person how much they care but that the person has to get help or they're on their own. Humiliation isn't supposed to be part of it really.

[Rapunzel]

Tough love doesn't mean forcing someone to do what you want or decide is best for them, or taking away their right to make decisions about their personality, friends, and lifestyle. I'm sorry that your parents interpreted it that way. Tough love means not enabling people you love who are destroying their lives with drugs and harmful behaviors. Tough love means being there for them whenever they are ready to change the behaviors that are disrupting the family and the relationship and the person's own life, but not supporting those behaviors.

[WikidPissah]

I have a 20 yr old daughter who is an incredible young woman, she does not have a job though. She hasn't worked in over a year, and she isn't disabled or anything. So tough love for us is shutting off the purse strings...no cash for hair, gas, clothing...no car privileges, and the threat of her cell phone and internet access being shut off at the first of the year. it's TOUGH because I want her to have all these good things in life. It's LOVE because I care deeply about her and her future. It would be a lot easier for me to just take care of her....but it would be better for her if she learns to care for herself.

[Perna]

I think it is a different problem when someone is a minor but you're not a minor SAWE and no one else can force you to do anything. With one's children going the "wrong" way, not doing their school work, hanging out with other kids who might be doing drugs or other illegal activities and no one applying themselves, parents have less leeway as to what is possible; may have to be more active in their intervention. It doesn't look like it worked for your brother, I'm so sorry you had to watch all that.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Thanks everyone, this is about what I figured, and I agree with the concept (and you are right, it's not what my parents did. There was so much more where that came from)

But - Perna said >>> It's more giving someone a choice to recognize they have a problem and to get professional help or one won't associate with them anymore

but what if A knows that B has already recognized that they have a problem, and knows that B is already getting professional help? Does A have the right to say B, I feel that you are not working [at therapy], or are not working hard enough, so I will use "tough love" on you until you shape up?

IDK,... T and I just passed our 3 yr "anniversary" and I guess it's weighing on me.
Here at PC everyone is kind to say, it takes as long as it takes; but IRL not everyone is so patient and understanding. And then of course it has to be admitted, there IS such a thing as malingering !!

[Melbadaze]

Sounds like someone is trying to keep you in your "place" and pass their shame off as yours? Perhaps therapy is already begining to show itself in how you behave in how you are now and hence the "person" is panicking. Dysfunctional families hate to see anyone escape their "Hold" and will continue to do what they 've always done, but the fact your questioning shows your coming from a different angle now?? Do you want to take someone elses shame and make it yours? Or do you want to see the "threat" to you as confirmation that your not playing the "game" as you once did? tell 'em to go f**k themselves and smile sweetly as you do

[sittingatwatersedge]

Wouldn't that be nice, that some new positive behavior on my part had brought this around. No such luck; on the contrary, in a moment of confidence I told this person that I was about to leave for my appt with T, and that my anxiety was through the roof. The response was very silent, which should have alerted me. Next day I hear this praise of tough love. Maybe they weren't talking about me. but IF they were talking about me, the message would be, that I should be through with T by now, or at the very least shouldn't have big anxiety any more -

but hey now that I think of it, if there's no tension, no anxiety, there's no therapy is there? It can't just be pleasant discussions; T is all about rewiring and change, and change is anxiety provoking, at least to me.

Well, I guess I will work on regarding the "should" as invalid, and somehow step back far enough to minimize opportunities for exercise of tough love. The relationship does need to continue.

sheesh, whoever said that life was easy.