[Mike_J]

Love, beauty, wisdom, charm, grace, elegance, radiance and unimaginable power all that and so much more magically captured in one woman (or is she something more?). Certainly when she looks into the mirror she does not see these things, but what of the others, her friends, coworkers, acquaintances, even those she passes on the street do they not see what I do? I find it impossible to comprehend why she does not constantly have to step over those who would joyfully grovel at her feet, just for the fleeting joy of being in her presence.

Why among all of people am I the one who sees all that she is, what about me deserves to receive such a bountiful blessing? It’s a blessing beyond measure, but it also comes at a price, heavy burden to bear, for she is utterly and totally unattainable to one such as myself. I do not resent this burden, this constant weight that has been placed upon my soul, such is the cost of being welcomed into her presence, as such I carry this mighty load with pride. While she is unable to look upon me as even a friend, much less something more, to me she is my greatest confidante, my surest ally, and the strong rock that grounds my mind, my heart, my soul. She is the shield that I cower behind when the “slings and arrows” of my pointless life threaten to overwhelm me. Such a thing humbles me beyond measure, one of my greatest desires is to be her protector, but by some incomprehensible twist of fate it is she that protects me, this slight gentle woman stands firmly between me and anything and everything that threatens to drive me to utter despair.

But with all the joy that knowing her brings, there is also fear, fear that I will not forever be able to resist the temptation that she unknowingly calls out to me with. Her power over me is nearly complete, there is only one thing that stops me from turning my life completely towards her, and sail headlong into the rocky shoreline of her inner self. It isn’t the certain failure and utter humiliating that such folly would surely bring, it’s the knowledge that failure would mean her removing herself from my life, and such a thing I don’t think I could bear, the loss would be beyond my ability to take.

So I sail the ship that is my life slowly around the island of her light, too afraid to sail to her, too weak to sail away.

[Melbadaze]

thats the first alf of "it"...it should continue with how bit by bit the little boat gradually gains its own intwrnal strenght and one day sails of with the strenght to pull a boat 10 x its own weight...never having encountered such a siren the little boat would have been a victim of the tides and storms...

[mixedup_emotions]

Mike....how incredibly painful this journey must be for you....a painful blessing. I do hope that you are able to work through this with your T so that you can gain a better understanding of your feelings and be able to mirror that in your own life. As hard as that sounds, it can put you on the path to a greater freedom.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Mike_J

there is also fear, fear that I will not forever be able to resist the temptation that she unknowingly calls out to me with. Her power over me is nearly complete,

there is only one thing that stops me from turning my life completely towards her, and sail headlong into the rocky shoreline of her inner self.

It isn’t the certain failure and utter humiliating that such folly would surely bring,

it’s the knowledge that failure would mean her removing herself from my life,

I'm not sure that I understand what I bolded up there ^? Why would she leave you?

[Mike_J]

Originally Posted by Sannah

I'm not sure that I understand what I bolded up there ^? Why would she leave you?

She would leave me because it’s the ethical thing for her to do, I know she would look on anything other than us having a strictly professional relationship as her taking advantage of me, I don’t see things quite that way but that is another story. For me to completely turn my life upside down in a rather ridiculous attempt at something more would force her to terminate me as a patient, and that would really HURT!

[ECHOES]

Have you and your therapist talked about your feelings for her?
You can do that, as she has likely had this kind of discussion many times. She can help you with this

[Mike_J]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Have you and your therapist talked about your feelings for her?
You can do that, as she has likely had this kind of discussion many times. She can help you with this

Actually I was inspired to write the original post in response to my therapy session on Monday afternoon, and my feelings about her is about all we talked about, so yes I can and have talked to her about this, several times. And she is very understanding, not sure if that makes things easier or more difficult?

[elliemay]

I understand.

What you wrote is a beautiful expression of your feelings.

I think the way you/I feel about our therapists is a magnificient thing. Something to be celebrated. Love always is. Try not to let anyone - not even yourself - minimize that. Love is a miracle.

The relationship with the therapist is what is though. It has to exist just as it is. It's like an egg in your hand, hold it too lightly and it falls out and breaks, hold it too tightly and you smash it.

I'm glad your therapist is open to discussing this. Mine was too. It helps.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Mike_J

I know she would look on anything other than us having a strictly professional relationship as her taking advantage of me,

So you want a personal relationship with her?

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Sannah

So you want a personal relationship with her?

maybe you're asking that this thread should be on that subforum, Sannah? the "Romantic feelings" one - ?

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

maybe you're asking that this thread should be on that subforum, Sannah? the "Romantic feelings" one - ?

No, I didn't even think of that. I am just trying to figure out what Mike is struggling with.

[geez]

Hi ((Mike))! I haven't 'seen you' in ages. What you wrote was beautiful and I'm sorry you are going through such heart ache.

[Mike_J]

I would like to get to know the real her, not sure if my feelings are truely "Romantic" that is why I didn't post there.

[RiverX]

Mike,
At the risk of being unpopular here, I have been where you are with a T., and I consider this very dark, and very unhealthy. For me, in my case, I had a lot of those feeings, I was being devoured, and it sounds like you are too.
This is not the effect therapy should have. Being so focussed on her 'marvelousness' and so little yourself the opposite to what should be going on here. However 'wonderful' she seems, this is not a useful outcome of whatever has been going on in the dynamic between you, so what she's doing is not that great.
Some of us are very susceptible, and that included me, to narcissistic therapists. The signs are all there in that 'its all about her'. Your loyalty, and the issue of protection ~ whether you her, or her you, speaks of some really deep survival issues. That is how it was for me too. You may say yours is different to mine, but Im saying how I percieve this.

How did this dynamic get set up?
You may consider looking back and thinking if there was anything that goes on between you that would subtly induce you to put more focus on her, that makes her the centre of your life, rather than yourself.

I wish you luck, and hope this in some way helps even if its disappointing to hear.

[Mike_J]

I have been seeing her for six years, and she very good at whenever I shift too much time away from my issues to getting me back on track. I mean after 6 years I really don’t know very much about her. Normally I’m very good at reading people, but she is even better at not letting anything show, just the desire to get to know her that much stronger.

As far as it being unhealthy I have thought about that, she is as far from being narcissistic as a person can be, but I have wondered about my motivation for me seeing her. The only thing I can say for sure is that she has helped me so much over the years, I’m a very different person that I used to be (and all for the better) and she saved my life, probably more than once.

[Wawrzyn]

Originally Posted by Mike_J

Love, beauty, wisdom, charm, grace, elegance, radiance and unimaginable power all that and so much more magically captured in one woman (or is she something more?). Certainly when she looks into the mirror she does not see these things, but what of the others, her friends, coworkers, acquaintances, even those she passes on the street do they not see what I do? I find it impossible to comprehend why she does not constantly have to step over those who would joyfully grovel at her feet, just for the fleeting joy of being in her presence.

Why among all of people am I the one who sees all that she is, what about me deserves to receive such a bountiful blessing? It’s a blessing beyond measure, but it also comes at a price, heavy burden to bear, for she is utterly and totally unattainable to one such as myself. I do not resent this burden, this constant weight that has been placed upon my soul, such is the cost of being welcomed into her presence, as such I carry this mighty load with pride. While she is unable to look upon me as even a friend, much less something more, to me she is my greatest confidante, my surest ally, and the strong rock that grounds my mind, my heart, my soul. She is the shield that I cower behind when the “slings and arrows” of my pointless life threaten to overwhelm me. Such a thing humbles me beyond measure, one of my greatest desires is to be her protector, but by some incomprehensible twist of fate it is she that protects me, this slight gentle woman stands firmly between me and anything and everything that threatens to drive me to utter despair.

But with all the joy that knowing her brings, there is also fear, fear that I will not forever be able to resist the temptation that she unknowingly calls out to me with. Her power over me is nearly complete, there is only one thing that stops me from turning my life completely towards her, and sail headlong into the rocky shoreline of her inner self. It isn’t the certain failure and utter humiliating that such folly would surely bring, it’s the knowledge that failure would mean her removing herself from my life, and such a thing I don’t think I could bear, the loss would be beyond my ability to take.

So I sail the ship that is my life slowly around the island of her light, too afraid to sail to her, too weak to sail away.

Mike, your story is very sad. If I were you I'd find another therapist and work on getting this "siren" out of my mind.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by Mike_J

I have been seeing her for six years, and she very good at whenever I shift too much time away from my issues to getting me back on track. I mean after 6 years I really don’t know very much about her. Normally I’m very good at reading people, but she is even better at not letting anything show, just the desire to get to know her that much stronger.

As far as it being unhealthy I have thought about that, she is as far from being narcissistic as a person can be, but I have wondered about my motivation for me seeing her. The only thing I can say for sure is that she has helped me so much over the years, I’m a very different person that I used to be (and all for the better) and she saved my life, probably more than once.

You seem like a smart guy to me, if you look at this objectively, do you see warning signs that may indicate something beyond the "normal", and often experienced feelings in the therapeutic space?

Do you have intrusive thoughts about her that are disrupting your daily life?

Are you ignoring the possibilities of other romantic interests in favor of her?

Do you find that other women just don't measure up to her?

If you're honest with yourself. What do you see?

I think it's okay to enjoy the company of your therapist, even love them, but as I indicated before, this relationship does require some management and is very confusing.

As I said before I do understand.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Mike_J

I would like to get to know the real her.

And what would this accomplish for your therapy?

[Wawrzyn]

Originally Posted by Sannah

And what would this accomplish for your therapy?

It might calm him down. 6 years wanting to learn more about a person but not being able to ask/get an answer is obviously painful to him.

[Mike_J]

Originally Posted by elliemay

You seem like a smart guy to me, if you look at this objectively, do you see warning signs that may indicate something beyond the "normal", and often experienced feelings in the therapeutic space?

Do you have intrusive thoughts about her that are disrupting your daily life?

Are you ignoring the possibilities of other romantic interests in favor of her?

Do you find that other women just don't measure up to her?

If you're honest with yourself. What do you see?

I think it's okay to enjoy the company of your therapist, even love them, but as I indicated before, this relationship does require some management and is very confusing.

As I said before I do understand.

elliemay let my try to answer your questions

Yes I have “intrusive thoughts” about her, but I wouldn’t say they disrupt my life, more like they add some brightness to it.

No I’m not ignoring the possibilities of other romantic interests in her favor, the only true romantic interest in my life is my wonderful wife, and no my wife doesn’t know about all my thoughts/feelings towards my therapist.

Yes I do find that other women don’t measure up to her, but I judge her on a different scale, just as other women don’t measure up to my wife.

I would like to think I’m honest with myself, I see a wonderful woman (I really like to keep the possibility open that she might be more than just a woman), someone who has helped me greatly, my wife has often commented on how much of a better person I have become. Unlike me my wife doesn’t give my therapist any credit for this transformation, she believes “finally pulled my head out of my ass”

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by Mike_J

elliemay let my try to answer your questions

Yes I have “intrusive thoughts” about her, but I wouldn’t say they disrupt my life, more like they add some brightness to it.

No I’m not ignoring the possibilities of other romantic interests in her favor, the only true romantic interest in my life is my wonderful wife, and no my wife doesn’t know about all my thoughts/feelings towards my therapist.

Yes I do find that other women don’t measure up to her, but I judge her on a different scale, just as other women don’t measure up to my wife.

I would like to think I’m honest with myself, I see a wonderful woman (I really like to keep the possibility open that she might be more than just a woman), someone who has helped me greatly, my wife has often commented on how much of a better person I have become. Unlike me my wife doesn’t give my therapist any credit for this transformation, she believes “finally pulled my head out of my ass”

Hi Mike,
It may be that up to now, she has really helped you, but that the relationship needs to be sort of re-balanced.

Its striking that when I was in the destructive T relationship that I described, I had almost the exact same vision as you, only mine was something I knew was all wrong: I visualised half the population of ---- (her city)---- laying prostrated outside her office, trying to get in, and her stepping over them in high heels. It was a sort of satire/ cartoon vision --- like how you said anyone would die to spend any time just in her company.
Maybe your instinct to know her better is to do with wanting to get more real connection, and a less idealized one with her?

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by Mike_J

elliemay let my try to answer your questions

Yes I have “intrusive thoughts” about her, but I wouldn’t say they disrupt my life, more like they add some brightness to it.

No I’m not ignoring the possibilities of other romantic interests in her favor, the only true romantic interest in my life is my wonderful wife, and no my wife doesn’t know about all my thoughts/feelings towards my therapist.

Yes I do find that other women don’t measure up to her, but I judge her on a different scale, just as other women don’t measure up to my wife.

I would like to think I’m honest with myself, I see a wonderful woman (I really like to keep the possibility open that she might be more than just a woman), someone who has helped me greatly, my wife has often commented on how much of a better person I have become. Unlike me my wife doesn’t give my therapist any credit for this transformation, she believes “finally pulled my head out of my ass”

I give my therapist a lot of credit as well for helping me to pull my head out of my *** as well. I, too, am grateful for his profoundly positive influence in my life.

One thing I've definitely learned during therapy is that, even though there are two people in the room, the experience of each person is significantly different. I share a lot with my therapist. He holds it, reflects it and never judges it. There is a profound feeling of intimacy and transfer of feelings on my part.

He does not feel that sense of intimacy because he doesn't share with me. The exchange is not mutual. Thus the way he experiences me is entirely different from the way I experience him. He may experience fondness, tenderness and a perhaps even be protective of me, but intimacy no.

IMO, the relationship with the therapist has got to good enough just as it is. There has got to be room for "good enough" and no more.

Based on her comment only, I think I might really like your wife.

Take care and good luck.

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by elliemay

I give my therapist a lot of credit as well for helping me to pull my head out of my *** as well. I, too, am grateful for his profoundly positive influence in my life.

One thing I've definitely learned during therapy is that, even though there are two people in the room, the experience of each person is significantly different. I share a lot with my therapist. He holds it, reflects it and never judges it. There is a profound feeling of intimacy and transfer of feelings on my part.

He does not feel that sense of intimacy because he doesn't share with me. The exchange is not mutual. Thus the way he experiences me is entirely different from the way I experience him. He may experience fondness, tenderness and a perhaps even be protective of me, but intimacy no.

IMO, the relationship with the therapist has got to good enough just as it is. There has got to be room for "good enough" and no more.

Based on her comment only, I think I might really like your wife.

Take care and good luck.

Ellie/ Mike,
Im puzzled about therapy, it has never worked for me. I have always thought that it should be there to support me to live a better life, to be more effective in what I do, as well as the this, the T should set a good example of living in moral integrity.
What has happened is that I've hardly ever got beyond being in a tangle over the relationship with the T. So each session was about patching up the one that went before.
How does it all fit together for you? How does it balance, your focus on the relationship in the room with your T, and the focus on getting help for your outside life?

r.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by RiverX

Ellie/ Mike,
Im puzzled about therapy, it has never worked for me. I have always thought that it should be there to support me to live a better life, to be more effective in what I do, as well as the this, the T should set a good example of living in moral integrity.
What has happened is that I've hardly ever got beyond being in a tangle over the relationship with the T. So each session was about patching up the one that went before.
How does it all fit together for you? How does it balance, your focus on the relationship in the room with your T, and the focus on getting help for your outside life?

Well, sometimes negotiating the relationship with the therapist is the work of therapy - at least in the short term. I can not tell you the number of times I quit. Just cut my losses and ran as fast as I could from that pain. However, I always went back.

We had fight after fight after fight. It was a very very confusing, upsetting time in my life. I realized, with his help, that the way I was relating to my therapist was also the way I was relating to people in real life. I simply would not allow anyone in. The stress and the pain of feeling something for someone went counter to everything that was known to me. Really sent up all kinds of warning bells. It was nothing but fear and I rationalized it in all sorts of unhealthy ways.

Looking back, I can very clearly see myself as a colicky child, uncomfortable and thrashing about wildly.

It's kind of hard to explain, but gradually I began to sort of lean into the relationship instead of pushing it away. I don't know if it was exhaustion on my part (he just wouldn't go away damn him! and I couldn't get away from that intermittent reinforcement of connectedness). I just relaxed my head against it instead of trying to force my way through it. It was what it was. Immovable.

He's not perfect, but I began to absorb the pain, incorporate, feel and let go of disappointment and come out the other side whole and remarkably confident. We have a nice, peaceful detente now that is comfortable and productive. He's a positive in my life - a fellow traveler as I live.

As far as the therapist being a model of moral integrity, well, that's not something I want or seek in therapy. For me, I never looked to the therapist for that. My morals are my business. If I have a moral dilemma, it's up to me to solve it. Yes, I may talk to my T about it and parse out what is bugging me, what baggage may unduly influence my thinking about it, but it's my life, my choice.

[RiverX]

Thanks.
ps, I did say "set an example of living in moral integrity", not a 'model of moral integrity', subtle, but important difference.