[sunrise]

I'm having some negative transference toward T over a change he made in his office. It's totally stupid and trivial, but it's bugging me. I have a session next week--it will have been 3 weeks since the last. Suddenly as the appointment draws closer, I find myself thinking about this change, and it's all that comes up for me now if I think of the appointment. I feel stupid to be having these thoughts, as I know this is totally not about T, but about another person from my life. Knowing it's not about T does not keep me from feeling this. Last session, I just ignored it, told myself I was being ridiculous and pushed it down--successfully, I thought. Now I am thinking about this again. I feel like if I walk into T's office and this "change" is there again, I will just want to turn around and go right back out the door.

Here's my question: Is it supposed to help to tell the T, "hey, I'm having negative transference right now?" And if so, why does that help? I'm embarrassed to talk about this, because it is so obvious that this is not about T. And if I know it is not about T, then shouldn't that be enough--I have solved the puzzle? Talking about it won't clear up any confusion for me. How would it help to tell T, "this is what is going on"? I know people say you are supposed to work through the transference in therapy. But I don't see that it would help. It seems like I will have this feeling about the change in his office every single time I go there, whether we talk about it or not. So why talk about it? Arrrghh.

[lastyearisblank]

What an interesting question! I think that would be sort of unusual for a shrink, to a hear not "I'm angry at you" but "I am experiencing negative transference." Maybe it would give them some extra information to work on already?

I'm trying to think if I would share! Because of T's being human (most of them anyway) I don't like introducing unnecessary conflict either. I wouldn't share in real life if someone is making me mad and don't know why. But that might be precisely why it is a good thing to share. Is it really about the furniture? Is something else going on? If you bring it up you and T can try to figure it out, might be surprising/interesting.

[elliemay]

Why don't you tell your therapist how you are feeling about the other situation in your life and just simply say that you suspect it's manifesting in being upset over the change in the office.

I've got a strong feeling that the discussion will lead to something very productive.....

[pegasus]

((((((((( sunrise ))))))))))))

I think it would be good for your T to know about this. For one thing it shows good progress of your awareness of the negative transference, that you are aware that this is coming from somewhere else. The fact that you are uncomfortable enough to want to walk out of the office because of this change means that it needs to be talked about. I think you know this. In sharing this with your T, it will mean discussing it further, maybe bring more to light and eventually bring some resolution to it. Trying to ignore it hasn't worked so you have nothing to lose in discussing it.

[WikidPissah]

Yea, I would go with talking about the other person and working thru that rather than the transference...because as you said, you pretty much know where that is stemming from.

(((((((((((((((Sunny))))))))))))))))

I think the things that seem the "stupidest"...the feelings that we judge ourselves about and berate ourselves for....often lead to some of the most important work in therapy.

I think you take pride in being mature in your relationship with T...AND I think that it's okay sometimes to just let the parts of us that feel immature and unreasonable to rear their heads.

A small example I can think of in my therapy is when T had a gift from another client on his desk. Truly, truly, truly not a big deal. But it brought up so much stuff for me. Stuff that I *knew* wasn't about me and T, but was old stuff related to my childhood. Even though I could trace the whole thing...my reaction, the fact that it wasn't about T, the place it actually came from...I told T how I felt. And we talked about it for more than one session. It brought up feelings from a time when I couldn't talk about what was going on, and even though it sometimes feels like there's no "point" to talking about those things now, there is something healing and emptying about bringing them into the light and letting them GO. This gift that I thought would literally bother me forever has no effect on me at all now. I see it on his desk and it's just another item on his desk.

It sounds like you almost feel ashamed about how you are feeling? Just the fact that you call how you feel "stupid" says volumes. You feel how you feel, and it is okay. My T always says "feelings are information"...nothing to be scared of, or ashamed of. Maybe the information this feeling is giving you is that you have something unresolved from your past that you need to bring up with T?

I also just remembered your reply to a recent thread of mine...that T had disappointed you with his reaction in your previous session. I wonder if that's playing in to this too?

Be gentle with you, sunny! There is something very healing about bring our "silly" issues to T and finding out that we are still respected and loved, and, in the end, not silly at all.

to you

[ECHOES]

Share it? Of course. It's affecting you and it matters because you matter.
Letting him know you notice something happening and what effect it is having and talking about it.. you don't know that it won't help until you put it out there. You don't have to figure it out all the way by yourself. You've already made the discovery and the association, talking with T can bring more clarity so you can get through it, which is what you want to do.

Is this making you see T differently? And that is affecting your willingness to talk about this?

[Perna]

I don't think the fact that it is negative transference is what is important but what the actual situation is and discussing that with T. I would tell T the whole story, all about the other person and why you don't like the change, etc. and in discussing it, hopefully get the situation and other person disentangled from T and yourself? It's kind of like a trigger? T's change is not the other person and the original "wrong" situation. The original has to be worked through?

[Elli-Beth]

I brought it up with my T, and we talked about both why I was upset with him and what it really stemmed from and it really helped to discuss both sides of it.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

What an interesting question! I think that would be sort of unusual for a shrink, to a hear not "I'm angry at you" but "I am experiencing negative transference." Maybe it would give them some extra information to work on already?

Well, I probably wouldn't use the "negative transference" phrase, as we tend not to use psych lingo when we talk, but would probably say something like, "I know this isn't about you..."

Somehow, if I know it's not about T, then it seems like I shouldn't be having the issue. A lot time in therapy I feel like the T tries to help you figure these things out, trace them back to times in the past, get at the root. So if I know the root, then it seems like I shouldn't need to discuss this. Like what would the content of the conversation be?

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Somehow, if I know it's not about T, then it seems like I shouldn't be having the issue. A lot time in therapy I feel like the T tries to help you figure these things out, trace them back to times in the past, get at the root. So if I know the root, then it seems like I shouldn't need to discuss this. Like what would the content of the conversation be?

It is about T?

[Omers]

My T and I talk openly about transference all the time "good" and "bad". She thinks it is really neat and a positive sign of growth and health. Even when I feel/think/act out of that transference she is still proud of me for being able to name it.

My T also knows I am very sensitive to changes in her office. If I start gazing over her right side she will stop and say "What? did I put a book away in the wrong place?" Sometimes after we talk about it we fix the office other times we have to work on me. But... my T knows there are only two things allowed to move in her office: the tissue box and her... and she can't move once we start talking until it is time to go!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

Is it really about the furniture? Is something else going on?

Originally Posted by pachyderm

It is about T?

I'll explain more about what I am having transference about. Last session, T had a laptop open on a small ottoman he had positioned somewhat in front of him and to one side. I could see the back of the laptop. He had the laptop there the whole time we spoke. I did not notice him looking at what was on the screen (it may have been dark, in screensaver mode, or whatever). This was very triggering for me because of past experiences with my XH. When I was married, sometimes I would need to talk with my H about an issue about our children, and how we should handle it, what were options, what we should do. Raising kids is hard! I always liked to talk to him about the hard decisions. These discussions were often very unsatisfactory to me, though. My H used to spend a lot of time in our bedroom at his desk, working on his computer. I would go talk to him, sit on our bed, and try to engage him in conversation. He would hardly look at me, just keep doing stuff on his computer, which I couldn't see from my position. He would respond occasionally, but didn't seem engaged, or have ideas I was hoping he would about how to deal with the problem. I always ended up feeling kind of ignored and like I was annoying or angering him. (It turns out I was pissing him off because later when we had couples counseling, he told me that whenever I wanted to talk to him about the kids, he felt I was being insincere and didn't really want his ideas or opinions but just wanted him to rubber stamp a decision that I had already made. My jaw dropped when he told me that, as nothing could have been further from the truth. I sooo wanted his input and so often felt like I did not know what was best with parenting decisions. I so wanted a partner in childrearing. ) So anyway, my talks with my H about the kids made him angry at me, which I sensed, but had no idea why. And this is probably why he would ignore me and keep looking at his computer (passive aggression) while I was trying to talk to him. (Yes, isn't marriage fun and totally screwed up?) As things got worse between me and my H, there were a few times I came closer to him to try to discuss the children, and I could see his computer screen, and he had pornographic pictures and videos open on it. He didn't even try to close them when he knew I could see. So while I am trying to talk to my H about our children, he is watching f**king pornography! Not only was he ignoring me and concerns about our children, but choosing porn instead.

So now, when T has his laptop open while he is supposed to be talking to me, I get that same ignored and upset feeling that I got when I tried to talk with my H and he wouldn't look away from watching porn. I know my T is not watching pornography. It feels awful to get this same feeling when he is doing nothing wrong. As I said, I didn't even see him glance at the open laptop (until the end of our session when we were basically done). I just see the back of his laptop and feel this way. This is not about him.

When T and I were working on my marriage, he did hear these stories--a couple of years ago. So T knows I was upset by this, and did not condone my H's watching porn in my presence. Now here I am, happily divorced, and then I get this yuck "you're watching porn and ignoring me" feeling just because T has his laptop open. Something about seeing the back of his laptop was hugely triggering. Maybe that helps explain why the session did not go that well. Nothing terribly wrong with it, it just was not that satisfactory.

Since I've talked with T about the incidents with my H and his computer before, would talking about this again really help? I guess at root is an even broader question, why is it supposed to help to talk to a T about painful things like this? And if you still feel triggered, like I do, does that mean talking to T about this in the past was not helpful? Does it mean I should talk about it 10 different times and maybe then it won't still be hurtful? How does this work? Usually I don't have to repeat material in therapy. We talk about something, explore it, process it, and move on. I feel like once should be enough, but maybe that is not true.

Now that I've explained more what's going on, do people still think I should talk to my T about it?

[lastyearisblank]

Yes! I still think talk to him about it because of two things:

a) it might make it harder to work together on whatever you're working on at the moment.

and

b) maybe these feelings are part of your actual relationship and deserve some real time maintenance

I think this was really poignant in the post that you wrote:

So now, when T has his laptop open while he is supposed to be talking to me

I know you're saying it's just transference but that sounds pretty darn real to me. I mean he's supposed to be talking to you and he's NOT.

For emotional stuff like that I think it's rare we learn it the first time, for me at least it does take a couple rounds to stick.

(((((((((((sunny))))))))))))))

I'm curious why you would NOT talk about it? What is stopping you?

Anything with such big feelings around it deserves to be explored. And yes, I do think we need to "talk again" in therapy about things we've already talked about. T says that as we heal, we can work on things at a deeper level. So, maybe the first time I tell T about something, it's just to tell the story, my feelings about what happened, whatever. And maybe a year later, the same thing comes up and we talk about how it has affected my other relationships and my view of myself. And it might come up again later, once we realize there are even deeper or more far-reaching effects.

I think maybe there is something bigger behind your reluctance to talk about it...and that, in itself, feels like something really important to explore.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by sunrise

\Since I've talked with T about the incidents with my H and his computer before, would talking about this again really help? I guess at root is an even broader question, why is it supposed to help to talk to a T about painful things like this? And if you still feel triggered, like I do, does that mean talking to T about this in the past was not helpful? Does it mean I should talk about it 10 different times and maybe then it won't still be hurtful? How does this work? Usually I don't have to repeat material in therapy. We talk about something, explore it, process it, and move on. I feel like once should be enough, but maybe that is not true.

I know that for me I have to go over and over things; they don't usually get settled quickly in my mind.

[sunrise]

Thanks everyone. There are many wise words here. I feel confused by the whole subject.

Originally Posted by treehouse

I think you take pride in being mature in your relationship with T...AND I think that it's okay sometimes to just let the parts of us that feel immature and unreasonable to rear their heads.

These things are true about me, Treehouse. I do feel it is unreasonable of me to feel that way about T's laptop, when he didn't even look at in session, and when I know this is about my feelings about my H and his computer.

Originally Posted by treehouse

It sounds like you almost feel ashamed about how you are feeling? Just the fact that you call how you feel "stupid" says volumes.

I feel embarrassed to be feeling that way, like it is wrong of me to equate my H with my T, as my T has not treated me poorly. How can I say to him, "you remind me of my scummy ex-husband when you put your laptop there?"

Originally Posted by treehouse

I also just remembered your reply to a recent thread of mine...that T had disappointed you with his reaction in your previous session. I wonder if that's playing in to this too?

Maybe. It was not a great session. I am not sure why, though. I just wrote it off as "hey, not all sessions can be great."

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Is this making you see T differently? And that is affecting your willingness to talk about this?

I think it's making me see myself differently, and I'm uncomfortable with that. I'm seeing myself as someone who is still hung up on this issue from the marriage, when I thought all that was behind me. I'm seeing myself as someone who can't move on, who talked about this in therapy before, but that wasn't enough. I feel like T is just some passive object in this, that I am reacting to. He could be an inanimate object. I am not reacting to the laptop as if he is who is he, as if it is the T I know so well doing this. The T I know is not going to be watching pornography on his laptop as we sit there talking.

I don't have transference a lot. And when I do, I guess I am just very uncomfortable with it. It can be very strong. It makes everything confused.

Originally Posted by Perna

I don't think the fact that it is negative transference is what is important but what the actual situation is and discussing that with T.

That's part of why it is so confusing to me. Because we have discussed the actual situation and I have felt I was over it.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

Yes! I still think talk to him about it because of two things:

a) it might make it harder to work together on whatever you're working on at the moment.

and

b) maybe these feelings are part of your actual relationship and deserve some real time maintenance

I think this was really poignant in the post that you wrote:

I know you're saying it's just transference but that sounds pretty darn real to me. I mean he's supposed to be talking to you and he's NOT.

Thanks, lastyearisblank. Your post is very thought-provoking and I want to consider it further. I think there is some truth there. And it never hurts to do maintenance on a relationship.

[mixedup_emotions]

This is great material for therapy!!!!! Yes, YES, you should bring this up with your T so you can address it. Also, remember that feelings just ARE - and even though intellectually, you understand it, it is triggering for you on an emotional level - which means that there's some unfinished business that you need to attend to.

I know I have a number of those triggering things....and T said that by working through them, I can work towards lessening the association with such triggery things....I can't tell you if it worked, because I just keep avoiding the topics....*sigh*

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

For emotional stuff like that I think it's rare we learn it the first time, for me at least it does take a couple rounds to stick.

Originally Posted by treehouse

And yes, I do think we need to "talk again" in therapy about things we've already talked about.

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I know that for me I have to go over and over things; they don't usually get settled quickly in my mind.

Thanks to you all for saying that. It makes me feel better that I didn't deal with this fully the first time around.

Originally Posted by treehouse

I think maybe there is something bigger behind your reluctance to talk about it...and that, in itself, feels like something really important to explore.

That sounds like it might be true, but I am not sure what that bigger something is. It is out of my grasp right now to know. And my head is hurting from thinking about it.

When I go see T next week, if I arrive and he has his laptop out like before, I will try to talk to him about this. If the laptop is not there, I don't think it would be so easy to raise the issue. Maybe then I would just let sleeping dogs lie until it happens again. It would seem wrong to complain about a laptop when it isn't there--like sunny, what's the problem? There's no laptop! Open your eyes.

Originally Posted by sunrise

It would seem wrong to complain about a laptop when it isn't there--like sunny, what's the problem? There's no laptop! Open your eyes.

((((((((((((Sunny))))))))))))))

There is so much self-judgment in your posts. You are "complaining", your feelings are "stupid"...like MUE said, feelings just ARE.

We all have feelings that don't make sense and that are out of proportion to the situation. Even our T's do. It doesn't mean that we're doing anything wrong, or that there is anything wrong with us.

T knows how much you respect and care for him. If he hears that his open computer triggers you, his thought won't be "oh, REALLY? I can't believe Sunny thinks I am doing the same thing as her ex-H!" it will be "oh wow, there is something unresolved here that Sunny needs help with".

I wonder if the transference here is something ELSE, actually. Maybe a fear of speaking up, of being judged for having feelings, of not being "perfect", of getting in trouble in your relationship, of being seen as "over-emotional" or "over-reactive"? Perhaps it goes deeper than the laptop being open and that reminding you of your H. That's what I meant about revisiting things on a new level. You may have talked about your H not listening and watching porn and how that felt...but maybe a deeper wound is being touched here. This is how therapy works. We are not expected to be reasonable all the time. Allowing ourselves to feel the pain that is touched by these unexpected moments, and allowing ourselves to talk about it, is how we heal. T wants to help you heal.

I hope you will be more gentle with yourself. This seems really, really important.

Love and hugs to you

[pegasus]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I'll explain more about what I am having transference about. Last session, T had a laptop open on a small ottoman he had positioned somewhat in front of him and to one side. I could see the back of the laptop. He had the laptop there the whole time we spoke. I did not notice him looking at what was on the screen (it may have been dark, in screensaver mode, or whatever). This was very triggering for me because of past experiences with my XH. When I was married, sometimes I would need to talk with my H about an issue about our children, and how we should handle it, what were options, what we should do. Raising kids is hard! I always liked to talk to him about the hard decisions. These discussions were often very unsatisfactory to me, though. My H used to spend a lot of time in our bedroom at his desk, working on his computer. I would go talk to him, sit on our bed, and try to engage him in conversation. He would hardly look at me, just keep doing stuff on his computer, which I couldn't see from my position. He would respond occasionally, but didn't seem engaged, or have ideas I was hoping he would about how to deal with the problem. I always ended up feeling kind of ignored and like I was annoying or angering him. (It turns out I was pissing him off because later when we had couples counseling, he told me that whenever I wanted to talk to him about the kids, he felt I was being insincere and didn't really want his ideas or opinions but just wanted him to rubber stamp a decision that I had already made. My jaw dropped when he told me that, as nothing could have been further from the truth. I sooo wanted his input and so often felt like I did not know what was best with parenting decisions. I so wanted a partner in childrearing. ) So anyway, my talks with my H about the kids made him angry at me, which I sensed, but had no idea why. And this is probably why he would ignore me and keep looking at his computer (passive aggression) while I was trying to talk to him. (Yes, isn't marriage fun and totally screwed up?) As things got worse between me and my H, there were a few times I came closer to him to try to discuss the children, and I could see his computer screen, and he had pornographic pictures and videos open on it. He didn't even try to close them when he knew I could see. So while I am trying to talk to my H about our children, he is watching f**king pornography! Not only was he ignoring me and concerns about our children, but choosing porn instead.

So now, when T has his laptop open while he is supposed to be talking to me, I get that same ignored and upset feeling that I got when I tried to talk with my H and he wouldn't look away from watching porn. I know my T is not watching pornography. It feels awful to get this same feeling when he is doing nothing wrong. As I said, I didn't even see him glance at the open laptop (until the end of our session when we were basically done). I just see the back of his laptop and feel this way. This is not about him.

When T and I were working on my marriage, he did hear these stories--a couple of years ago. So T knows I was upset by this, and did not condone my H's watching porn in my presence. Now here I am, happily divorced, and then I get this yuck "you're watching porn and ignoring me" feeling just because T has his laptop open. Something about seeing the back of his laptop was hugely triggering. Maybe that helps explain why the session did not go that well. Nothing terribly wrong with it, it just was not that satisfactory.

Since I've talked with T about the incidents with my H and his computer before, would talking about this again really help? I guess at root is an even broader question, why is it supposed to help to talk to a T about painful things like this? And if you still feel triggered, like I do, does that mean talking to T about this in the past was not helpful? Does it mean I should talk about it 10 different times and maybe then it won't still be hurtful? How does this work? Usually I don't have to repeat material in therapy. We talk about something, explore it, process it, and move on. I feel like once should be enough, but maybe that is not true.

Now that I've explained more what's going on, do people still think I should talk to my T about it?

(((((((( sunrise )))))))))

That's all very triggering stuff that you have written above. Your H was looking at porn while you were trying to talk about important stuff about the children. Gosh, that's quite yucky and it really does need to be discussed with your T more than once or twice. I mean, how did you feel at the time? Did you stuff your anger away and feel unimportant? More work needs to be done on this sunrise, you know the analogy of the onion and it certainly isn't something you should feel shame or guilt about which I'm guessing is holding you back. It is painful stuff but I think it needs to be tackled.

[sugahorse1]

I got angry at T when she had to move our appointment out. I felt she was testing me, and how long I could go without a session. I also felt like she was abandoning me. This anger built up inside me, then became hurt and depression.
I wrote her an e-mail about it, and as i wrote it, it actually became clear to me that the anger i was feeling was similar to what i go through in my other relationships.
She never really spoke to me about it, but i know she carries it in the back of her mind.
it was wrong that i got angry with her. i also did mention it right at the end of our following session, and apologised for my feelings....

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I'm having some negative transference toward T over a change he made in his office. It's totally stupid and trivial, but it's bugging me. I have a session next week--it will have been 3 weeks since the last. Suddenly as the appointment draws closer, I find myself thinking about this change, and it's all that comes up for me now if I think of the appointment. I feel stupid to be having these thoughts, as I know this is totally not about T, but about another person from my life. Knowing it's not about T does not keep me from feeling this. Last session, I just ignored it, told myself I was being ridiculous and pushed it down--successfully, I thought. Now I am thinking about this again. I feel like if I walk into T's office and this "change" is there again, I will just want to turn around and go right back out the door.

Here's my question: Is it supposed to help to tell the T, "hey, I'm having negative transference right now?" And if so, why does that help? I'm embarrassed to talk about this, because it is so obvious that this is not about T. And if I know it is not about T, then shouldn't that be enough--I have solved the puzzle? Talking about it won't clear up any confusion for me. How would it help to tell T, "this is what is going on"? I know people say you are supposed to work through the transference in therapy. But I don't see that it would help. It seems like I will have this feeling about the change in his office every single time I go there, whether we talk about it or not. So why talk about it? Arrrghh.

knowing that its transference is not the same as processing it. i think part of the processing would be telling him whats going on, talking about what you think is being transferred and why, and maybe even making a vulnerable request.

it seems that you have some shame about these strong feelings and nothing dissipates shame like a heaping helping of empathy. he cant offer that to you if you never open up about it.