Painful Fantasy of T

I don't want to communicate my needs. I want it to be noticed by someone who cares enough to notice. Unrealistic, I know but still... When I pay attention to people and learn about them, I know what their needs are and I try to fulfill them when possible.

but they don't reciprocate that, and you feel that's not fair...

Some people are better at that than others... maybe the issue is finding and connecting with people who are good at it?

((((((((((((suratji))))))))))))

Something that I have learned in T is that it is okay to have needs, AND that it is okay to tell other people what our needs are. And that if we do tell people what we need, we might get our needs met.

It was a really really hard lesson for me to learn. I was ashamed of having needs (once I realized I had them) and I wanted so badly for T (or anyone) to just meet them without me asking. T and I talked a lot about this. It is the job of a parent to anticipate their children's needs when they are very young, and some of us missed out on that and have this longing to have it happen now.

T has taught me to ask to have my needs met. And you know what? It's SO worth it. It feels so much better than sitting around and *hoping* my needs will be met and being disappointed. If I need something from T, I ask. Same with H, and with my friends. It was excruciatingly difficult at first, but no one got angry, or thought there was something wrong with me for having needs, or anything like that. And, I finally got to have some needs met.

It is okay to tell T what you need. The worst thing that can happen is that she will say "no". That's another thing I've learned...it's okay for me to ask, and it's okay for someone to say "no", if it's something they can't give me right then. It doesn't meant that there is anything wrong with me for having a need, or anything wrong with them for not being able to meet it at that moment.

This was a really hard part of therapy for me. REALLY hard. Growing up, I wasn't allowed to have needs, and it was hard as an adult to admit that I had them. But once I learned how to identify them, and talk about them, there was a peace in my life that I didn't have before.

I hope you will decide to talk to your T, Suratji. It's okay to want things, even if they're things we can't have. I've asked T for lots of things I can't have, and it's really, really okay.

I believe you; I agree with you - I just can't. The hurt from the rejection will be too much for me to handle. I am way way too sensitive.

How would you feel about letting go of the habit of anticipating the needs of others, and to put yourself and your needs first? Often people think that if they anticipate other people's needs others will do the same for them. While this sounds fair, unfortunately this doesn't always happen, and you feel let down. But you don't always have to be the one who meets other people's needs. Would it help to put yourself first for once, and allow yourself to get what you want?

I am a natural nurturer and caretaker. That's just who I am and it feels good to help others. But, I am getting better at advocating for myself - but that is just me taking care of me.

My unreasonable fantasy is that someone would notice,without prompting, my needs and provide them,

But, enough of this whiny me. It doesn't matter in the end.

This is something I am just trying to start to understand and work at. You explain it so well, but it is still going to be hard. Thanks

I wish there were a step-by-step manual on how to do that. Maybe if it weren't an all or nothing action, it might be possible.

I mean, we learn other things step-by-step. How oh how can we learn courage?

Here is a little story:

I mentioned in another thread that I have a box that sits on T's desk. When I brought it to session and wanted to put it in his office, I was so embarrassed and ashamed and scared. I was terrified to pull it out of the bag and ask to leave a part of *ME* there in T's office. It felt awful.

I left it in the bag I brought it in for almost the entire session. We talked about why it was so scary to pull it out, and it just got worse and worse the longer I left it in there.

FINALLY, I pulled it out and showed it to T. He looked at it, admired it, talked about the colors i used, the mandala design I painted. He thought that having my own "container" was a good idea.

But. Then he asked where I wanted him to put it. I wanted him to OFFER to put it on his desk, but I couldn't bring myself to say it. I think I said, "oh, back there in the corner"...basically on the floor behind his chair in the corner of the room where it would never be seen. T said "okay" and put it there. But it felt yucky.

I really, really wanted it on T's desk. I think I finally said "I wish it could be on your desk but I am afraid to ask". And T just sat there. And I said "could you give me a gift, this once, and just do it without me asking?". Nope.

T said that he wanted me to have the experience of needing something, asking for it, and having that need met. Ugh.

It was so so so so hard, but I finally forced myself to squeak out "can you put it on your desk?" and he smiled and said that he would love to and he got it and put it on his desk, and it's there to this day.

I'm telling you this story, because I want you to know that I *get* how hard it is. It's terrifying. I was SO scared of being rejected that I almost couldn't go through with it.

And actually, a lot of our summer-long rupture had to do with me wanting T to sit with me on the couch. He had sat there before, when I asked, and for some reason, I wanted him to come over without asking. It went on and on and on for MONTHS. I would say things like "I KNOW you know what I need" and he would say things like "I don't know if you don't tell me". Argh.

FINALLY, I just asked. And he came over. And it was the beginning of the end of the rupture.

I think learning that we have needs, and learning to ask to have them met...and learning that "No" isn't a rejection of US, is really really hard work. But I also think that it is one of the lessons that has helped me the most outside of therapy in my real life.

to you!

I love your story. I felt in my body the fear you were describing as I read it. I so resonate.

I don't think T and I have gotten to my issue of trust yet. There are so many other issues to try to cover in our weekly 50 minute session and this particular issue doesn't seem to be the most important to address.

I guess the key thing is how to be able to handle rejection. How would you have done that if T hadn't been so amazing for you?

i don't think this is unreasonable at all. it reminds me of being an infant, actually..

Except we're not infants anymore. We're adults who should be able to happily stand on our own two feet.

I actually went through a phase in therapy when I asked for a LOT of thing I couldn't have. Could I wear his watch? Could I go through his desk? Could we go for a walk? I think I was just practicing hearing "no". And t was always always always so gentle with the "no" that it was okay.

I have asked for things I really wanted that I couldn't have...like an extra session, when he didn't have time. And he was apologetic and kind and firm. Did I feel rejected? Yeah, I did. But I still understood that it just was what it was. It got easier over time to hear a "no"

It IS scary...I get it. AND you can do it.

That sounds like a good idea. I'll ask T for things that maybe I don't care that much about so I can get used to hearing the word 'no'. Excellent! Now, I just have to figure out what I don't care about that much. Yike, just imagining hearing the word 'no' is terrifying. But, I'm seriously going to give this some thought. Thanks so so much for your input.

So directly influenced by your and others' suggestions, I called my T today and left message for her. I asked her to remind me if I forget (highly unlikely) or lose my nerve (highly likely), to allow me to ask her for things that I know she will refuse.

I told her how I got encouragement for this exercise from my cyber friends and that since my fear of rejection is so strong, that I need to practice hearing 'no' so it won't be such a bogeyman for me.

I called her now instead of asking her next Friday the 15th, because I'm worried I'll change my mind about trying this practice.

I'll start with questions that are ridiculous like, "Can we run away to the circus tomorrow?" and "Can you teach me how to surf?" and "Let's go climb trees, ok?" Hearing the expected and logical 'no' might make me less sensitive to it. I don't know but it's worth a try.

So, thanks guys, I hope it works.

To show how messed up I am, about 3 hours after I left message with T that I wanted to practice being able to hear the word, "no" from her, I called again and left message that I was sure she was sick and tired of me and that I'm sure she will want to terminate and she should do it as quickly as possible for the good of both of us and that I would be fed up with me too.

Hey, am I sabotaging my relationship with T so I don't have to face this tough stuff? It just feels like she is sick of me. It's too hard to face someone who has that feeling about you.

Oh (((((((((((((Suratji)))))))))))))

I cant' tell you how many times i REALLY believed T was sick of me. It was constant early in therapy. I asked him SO many times if he was going to refer me that he used to just volunteer it on his own, finally, without me even asking. At the end of a phone message, or whatever, he would say "...and I'm not going to refer you"

I STILL worry about that sometimes to this day, when T has made it SO clear that he likes me, and he likes working with me.

Try to remember that just because you feel something or you're scared of something, that doesn't mean it's true. Just because you are scared of T being sick of you doesn't meant that she IS. It's just as likely that when she hears your messages, she thinks "suratji works so hard. I really appreciate that".

Be gentle with you

I worry that I have been 'trying' in a way to sabotage my T relationship too sometimes......I so understand that feeling of, T must be sick of me like anyone else who has gotten close to me for very long gets sick of me, so she will want to pull away like everyone else does......so I have pulled away myself. But I am seeing, T is not sick of me; she is having compassion for my pain and wanting to be close enough to keep helping me. So I am coming to the place where I am willing to stay close enough to her for her to be able to help me; I need help to know how to stay close in my other relationships too, to keep trusting, to not pull away in fear that the other person wants to pull away from me.....

I still haven't heard from T if she's wanting to terminate. I'll wait to call her again this afternoon and beg her to have mercy and let me know as soon as possible

Don't do this. Hold tight. Wait for her to call you. You know the reality deep down right? She's not firing you. This is a professional relationship as well as a personal one. You are working hard and are allowed to keep going as long as you want and she wants you to keep coming back as long as she can help you.

Btw sorry you are in a rough spot, I thought I was fired once and it sucked.

How do I know until she tells me?

Because you didn't do anything to deserve it, and because in real life sometimes people suck and are unreliable when we ask them for support but therapists aren't like that either as people, or just as part of their role. Your anxiety is so real and valid (and perfect for talking about in therapy) but at the same time, why would your t fire you!

You make sense and my rational brain agrees with you but it FEELS like she will and should terminate me. Do I really have to wait until next Friday to find out for sure?

I've read plenty about transference and attachment theory and, again, my rational brain believes that's what's going on here, but STILL, I feel the agony. Dang dang dang dang dang dang

Reading that feeling the deep emotions is the only way to work through these issues helps me understand a bit. I just don't want to go a whole week with this feeling.

Why do you think I shouldn't call later? What if she doesn't return my call? I leave her messages after each session in which I make clear that she should not return my call. I am very very conscious of not crossing any boundaries.

I'm not sure if I asked her specifically to call me back on this question of termination so she may think I am not asking for a return call.

But, my wish is that she would know how important this is and would call and reassure me anyway. If she does not return my call even if she doesn't want to terminate, it will feel big time like 'not caring' on her part.