[zooropa]

I'm trying to make a wise mind decision about going to T tomorrow, rather than an emotional one. I have been putting off deciding, enjoying knowing that nothing was set in stone, but the window of time where I can cancel my ride is closing and I need to make a decision today.

I think (and hope!) you guys can help me out here! Any thoughts, opinions, different perspectives are welcome.

I did a DBT-style pros and cons list, but it didn't help as it came out pretty much even. It looks something like this:
pros of going

1. maybe the rupture can be repaired?
2. resolution/sense of closure
3. getting to say what I need/want to say
4. show myself that I can be strong and brave enough to do such a hard thing

cons of going:

1. might be emotionally overwhelming (may be left dealing with a lot of huge emotions and no T to help me deal with them)
2. it will be hard. Maybe too hard.
3. T might say things that hurt me even more
4. have to say goodbye and walk out the door knowing it's the last time
5. not going will "punish" T

I just noticed that #'s 1, 2, 3 and 4 on my cons list are pretty much the same thing. I guess that's my biggest fear. Getting upset, feeling ripped up, knowing I don't have T to help me with that. That is really, really scary.

[rainbow8]

I think you should go. If you want to quit, you still need closure and will regret it you don't say good-bye, as much as it might hurt. You only have to say goodbye if you're sure it's what you want to do. You will know when it's right. Until then, I say "go". At least then you can tell your T in person what you are doing and will feel stronger for it. You felt at peace when you made the decision to quit, but then changed your mind. Does your gut tell you which way you are feeling right now? I think that's more indicative of what to do than the list, but that's just my opinion.

[zooropa]

I guess the fact that I never took the step to cancel the ride has told me all along that I'm not absolutely certain. If anything, the fact that I can't pick up the phone to call and tell them not to pick me up probably says all I need to know.

The thing is, I spent a little time last night fantasizing about what T could say that would me me want to go, or make me want to keep going, or make things better. I thought about it a LOT, and still haven't come up with anything. I think maybe there really is nothing she can say or do at this point that will matter much.

I don't know. This is very confusing as I don't have a history of making good decisions based on my gut, or making good decisions period. So it is very, very hard to trust myself.

edited to add: I mean, I know you guys are going to tell me to go. I would tell any of you to go if the tables were turned. But can anyone see how this is different than other times I haven't wanted to go? Can anyone see how scary this is and how I am so afraid of how I will deal with having my emotions all stirred up, knowing I don't have a T to help me? Maybe I just need that part validated. yes, I should go AND yes, it is really really scary!

[SoupDragon]

It does sound enormously hard, but I guess you can't know what decision feels right until you have been. Also, do you actually have to make the decision during the session, can you not go away and think about it once you have experienced what your T's response is?

[SpiritRunner]

I think you should go for the sense of closure for both of you at least, if you mutuallly decide that is best!

[karebear1]

I didn't think there was anything my T could say or do to make me stay either and then she sent me an email that said: "It is not in your best interest nor is it what I would like you to do." That's all she had to say to get me to come back to therapy when I had given up on everything Zoo. It's so lame, but just the fact that she didn't want me to stop coming was enough for me to go back and I'm glad I did. We've been able to straighten things out further and I'm feeling a lot better about it now.

Zoo- if you knew your T wanted you there- would that help?

[WePow]

It it is time for you to stop, go see your T and tell her in person that you will not return. Tell her why. This will bring you closure and not more pain.

[lastyearisblank]

Go but keep in mind that you aren't done being nurtured cared for and given direction and support. You obviously have doubts about her for a reason? But I hope you can make it less a punishing thing for yourself. I would go... to answer the question.

[sunrise]

If you have decided you want to quit, I think you should go and tell her that in person. You do have a longstanding relationship with this T and I think telling her good-bye in person is the thing to do--closure, etc. With my first T, I canceled an appointment and just ended up never going back. It wasn't what I intended when I canceled, but ended up that way. If there is one regret I have about that relationship, it is that I wished I had gone for a final closure session and told her good-bye in session, perhaps talked about the next steps for me, what we had accomplished, expressed gratitude for how she had helped, etc.

I did read your other thread in which you said:

Originally Posted by zooropa

I sent my T an email. It was short. It basically said that I don't think there is a way to come back from this kind of rupture, that I opened myself up to her and in doing so I taught her the best ways to hurt me, trusting that she woudn't. And then she did. If I trusted her again I would be a fool. I finished by saying I need to just be done, and so I am.

To me that sounds like you canceled your appointment! So you may find that your T has already scheduled someone in your slot. I would call in advance to make sure your appointment time is open if you plan to go. My T is very busy so if a client canceled an appointment, he would immediately schedule someone else for that time. That wouldn't mean he didn't care about me or anything like that, but that he took me at my word, and believed what I had told him in my email. Zoo, I would hate to see you go to the appointment and not have it available. So if you are going to go, please call to confirm!

Good luck.

[zooropa]

I have cancelled sessions before and always ended up going anyway. I'm fairly confident my T wouldn't fill my slot, but of course that's a possibility. Just showing up seems somehow easier than calling her to check. Just ignoring the whole mess seems easiest of all.

thinking about it, what I want to do is ask my T. I mean, I want to tell her that I don't know whether to come or not. Yes, Kare, I want her to tell me she wants me to come.

[WePow]

Zoo - call her.

[karebear1]

Well then Zoo- can you ask her if she wants you to come to T? I know it puts you in a vulnerable place, but if she answers the question for you- won't it be worth it?

I think the only way my T knew to say it to me was because of something that had happened several weeks prior. I had a scheduled appointment with her that I cancelled because I was ready to stop therapy. When I emailed her and told her I was cancelling the appointment, she emailed me back and said she hoped to see me there. So I thought to myself "ok- I'll try one more time" and I called the office because I couldn't remember what time my appointment was for. Much to my dismay, I found out that they had already filled my time slot. The receptionist said that T had another opening in a hour - so I took it. I was 10 minutes late, but when I got there and went into T's office the first thing she did was ask me why I came. I just looked at her, kinda surprised that she would even ask such a question, and with mixed emotions, blurted out that I came because she said she wanted me there (what I didn't tell her was that deep down inside I was dying at the thought of stopping T and I couldn't bare the thought of not seeing her anymore- but I think she knew that anyway). So, this last time when she indicated that not only was it not in my best interest, but that she would not want me to stop T altogether, it held the same feeling for me.

If you're like me, you don't want to be a pain to anyone. You'd rather go through things all by yourself then to think that what you say or do or think will affect someone- especially T- in a negative or hurtful way. I'll betcha Zoo that EVEN THOUGH T HAS HURT YOU.... you still look at yourself as being the one that caused it don't you? Your T should know that too (if it's true).

If you told your T that you needed to know that she wants you there, in spite of all the bad feelings that have been going around, don't you think it would take a HUGE burden off you when she said she does want you there?

I know it's scary Zoo- But ya know what? When I find myself in the predicament that you are in, up against the wall with only 2 choices left to make (stay or go), I tell myself that I have nothing to lose (because I honestly and truly don't) but a lot to gain, and so far- there have been lots of gains and no losses..... well....maybe some loss in the pride department, but I guess that won't hurt me too much when the outcome I am looking for is there.

Even when we think we cannot do anymore, we can have the ability to push through our anxiety one more time and gather up the last of our strength to do what we know we need done. And we can do it time, after time, after time- because we know, deep down inside, that we are worth that and we want others to know that and tell us that.

Sit down with T Zoo and tell her you need to know if she still wants you- because that's what it's all about isn't it? You (despite all the turmoil you've been through with T) still want her- you just need to know that she feels the same thing.

(((((Zoo)))))

[karebear1]

Ah WePow! Such a woman of few words! You said in 3 words what I said in 6 long, boring paragraphs! You're so good WePow!!

[zooropa]

let me tell you guys a little story about why I don't want to call T right now. I'll just assume you know the background of the rupture with T and I, and how we have been trying to repair the relationship, and how so much of this is around phone calls.

So, this past Thurs I had to go to youth court with my 2 teenage sons. (long story, but it isn't relevant to this.) Now, I don't have a car, so we had to take the bus (two buses, actually) to walmart and then walk 2 miles just to get to where the youth court is held.

The walk is along the river that goes through town, and it is a paved trail that I had never been that far along before. We came around a corner and over a little hill, and suddenly I found myself in a place that very, very closely resembled the location of the SA I recently did trauma work on. I was...triggered. Badly. Even thinking about it now makes my hands go numb.

I'm not sure what happened exactly but I sent the boys ahead and told them I needed to rest or something. I called my T, I know that. I left her a message, I'm not sure what I said but I know I described the setting very briefly and I remember telling her "I'm not in my body, I can't feel my body."

And at some point I got up and I caught up with my sons and I went to court with them. I wasn't really *there* but I was physically present. I did ok. And you know...T never called me back. She just didn't call.

This is anti-DBT. This is anti-everything she ever told me. This is...well. This isn't helping repair the relationship. And that, in a long wordy nutshell, is why I don't want to call her today. I am tired of reaching out and being slapped away. Sick and tired.

Zoo, between reading this and you're other post about connecting with you're inner-child, I think that you are on a great path to healing. So much of it has to do with taking care of you're needs, which involes that connection with the inner-child. Kudos to you.

As far as this goes, I think that you should go in for the session if for nothing else but the closure. But only you can decide that for yourself and I wish you the best in whatever you choose to do in this situation..

[zooropa]

ah, I almost forgot about my earlier insight about how it's not a matter of right or wrong. I can go or I can not go and either one can be right or wrong or both or neither. That gives me a lot of room to breathe.

Because I know what you guys feel I should do, and I know what other friends not on PC feel, and I can guess what my T would want me to do. And you can all be right, and even if I choose to do the opposite, that can be right too. It's not about right or wrong. It's about how I do it, more than what I do. It's about what I do WITH it.

I've been reading and feeling such empathy for all that you've said, Zooropa. I go through the same circles of connection and disconnection. I agree with everyone's encouragement to go in for at least a final good-bye, and I say this because of something you said, "I want her to tell me she wants me to come." That tells me that you really aren't anywhere near disconnected from her. . . hurt and wounded by what she has said and the rupture that has occured, but you aren't finished yet. You could walk away, but I think you'll have more peace and less angst about whether or not you did the right thing if you end it with a final session.

One question thought: Did your T ever ask you about that incident this past week when you called in a panic and asked her to call you back? I mean I get that she didn't call you back but did she at least give you a reason or talk to you about what happened? If she didn't she sounds totally burned out. . . .toasted and burned to a crisp! And that has nothing to do with you! I sure hope you're able to work this out.

[zooropa]

no, jay, I haven't had any communication with T since a short texted conversation we had on..wed? Tues or Wed, anyway. She didn't return my call on Thurs and I emailed her over the weekend with no reply. Oh, I called her on Monday night asking for help with SI, didn't get a call back there until 24 hours later.

I also emailed her early this afternoon telling her that I was having a hard time making the final decision about cancelling my ride for tomorrow. I told her I wanted her to have the opportunity to say whatever she wanted to say that might help me decide what to do. No reply there, either, although with email I'm not surprised, T is sometimes very on top of email and other times very far behind.

I have a hard time sorting out what I'm feeling. If I don't feel hurt, if I don't feel that need pulling me towards T, is that because the hurt or need is gone or is it because I'm pushing it away? If it's gone, good, but if I'm pushing it away then my short-term gain of not feeling now isn't worth the long-term cost of feeling it later.

I definitely feel a lot of internal pressure to have this sorted out. I am very close to cancelling my ride because I just need the resolution and I can't stand being in this place of waiting any more. I made a deal with myself to wait until bedtime, until it's 12 hrs before I would leave for T, and if I want to cancel then I will go ahead. That's only a few hours from now, meanwhile I am practicing a lot of mindfulness and just noticing what I'm feeling as it shifts and moves beneath me.

zoo, no wonderful words of wisdom from this camp...
just wanted to let you know i was thinking about you
your life sounds so complicated sometimes,
i hope things improve for you quickly!

sending safe hugs
ps i voted for going...

[WePow]

(((((Zoo)))) I hope that whatever choice you make is one that will be healthy for you at the end of the day Monday.

Originally Posted by zooropa

pros of going

1. maybe the rupture can be repaired?
2. resolution/sense of closure
3. getting to say what I need/want to say
4. show myself that I can be strong and brave enough to do such a hard thing

cons of going:

1. might be emotionally overwhelming (may be left dealing with a lot of huge emotions and no T to help me deal with them)
2. it will be hard. Maybe too hard.
3. T might say things that hurt me even more
4. have to say goodbye and walk out the door knowing it's the last time
5. not going will "punish" T

.

((((((((((ZOO))))))))))

I know you are in SUCH a difficult spot.

Looking at your lists in a totally objective way, kind of pretending I don't know you or your story, it seems that the pro list actually does outweigh the con list. The pro list has three things that almost seem definite: sense of closure, getting to say what I need to say, showing myself I'm strong and brave. Those are three very real things that you can gain by going.

The con list seems to be more of a list of "possible" cons...things that you are AFRAID might happen...feeling overwhelming, t saying hurtful things, feeling too hard.

Maybe ALL of those things are true...maybe you will have a sense of closure AND feel overwhelmed. Maybe you will say what you need to say AND t will say something hurtful. Maybe you can show yourself you are strong and brave AND it can feel really hard.

I *think* that for me, the sureness of the positive stuff would make me want to go. When I decided to take a break from T, we had had a lot of little ruptures (not like yours, but still painful), and when I walked out of his office not sure when I would see him again, I was REALLY sad, but I also felt strong and sure that I was doing the right thing. It was an and/both, not an either/or.

Speaking of breaks....I wonder if it would help to take a break from T? I know that prolongs the indecision, but it might give you a chance to see what it feels like, and might help you feel more sure about what you DO decide.

I am really really sorry you're in such a hard spot, zoo. My heart aches for you. I hope you are able to feel a sense of peace at the end of the day tomorrow, whatever you decide.

[zooropa]

I wish I could reply to each of you individually. I appreciate you all so much.


I talked to T last week (was it really just last week??) about taking a break. She didn't think it was a good idea. I don't know that it matters to me very much what she thinks is a good idea, and that speaks to how shattered my trust is. I'm not completely sure I knew how much trust I built with T until I lost it.

aaaand I just accidentally deleted the rest of this huge long post. It was mostly just me blathering on about T and blah blah blah. Bottom line: not any closer to making a decision than I was 12 hours ago, but I certainly do have a lot more food for thought.

[zooropa]

ok, so my ride for tomorrow just called to confirm the pick up time. I wasn't expecting the call and didn't know what to say about not knowing if I'm going or not, so I just confirmed. I can still cancel if I want, but...I think I'm going. I might decide for tonight that I'm not going, just so I can get some sleep, and then I'll "change my mind" in the morning. These are the games I have to play with my silly brain sometimes!

[karebear1]

Zoo- do what helps you to be at peace with yourself after all- you have to be the one that lives with whatever decision you make...and don't forget- like you said earlier neither decision is right or wrong- and EITHER decision can be undone. Sleep tight.

[zooropa]

I admit my pride is taking a hit in all this. My phone calls and emails go ignored, but I still show up for session? It feels like begging for crumbs from T's table. I'm trying to think of it as being proactive, but it's hard.