no license to practice T

I am trying to decide something and I really need some different perspectives.

I have met with a new therapist and I am considering seeing her.

I would see her in addition to my current T. I think she would be able to help me with some unique aspects of my trauma. I think I would need to keep seeing my current T for eatind d/o/ stuff.

This new T seems nice, but really, how much can you tell in a first meeting? She has two masters degrees from a good school.

But I am having a problem with the fact that she is isn't licensed. She has insurance through the APA. I asked her about licensing, and why she wasn't licensed, and she made it sound like it wasn't a very useful thing - that she decided she didn't want to accept insurance anyway and didn't want to pay the yearly fees to keep the license.

I pointed out that the license was for the benefit and protection of the client as well, at least that is my understanding.

I am interested in knowing if others have or would see a therapist who isn't licensed?

I have trust issues, and I know that. Sometimes I have a hard time figuring out if I am being too cautious or not.

Is she a "Life Coach" or considered a religious T? I didn't think someone could just call themselves a T and not be licensed.

Bottom line is to watch out.

Her card says: Spiritual Direction and General Counseling.

And the degrees after her name are: M.A., M.S.Ed.

She is in her 60s, retired from working at a university

I don't know if it rational to be so scared of the fact that she doesn't have a license, or if that is just because of trauma stuff.
Very confused.

The no license thing would bother me big time. Especially that she doesn't think it's useful, and is too cheap to pay the fees. I have trust issues as well, and it would keep bugging me even after months into T... I would keep second guessing because of that. Trusting T is difficult enough without having extra issues to worry about.

She says its one way she can keep her fees low.

I think about my current T who is licensed though and it really hasn't affected me, that I know of anyway.
I never confirmed she is lisenced or checked to se if she had any complaints filed.

Really, what is the purpose of a license and how does it really protect the client?

There are bad Ts with licenses, as well as without licenses.
Its just that the bad ones without licenses can be punished by having the license taken away. Which is good, but at that point the client is already hurt, so it doesn't really matter, right?

I think it good to be careful, but also think here you could go with your instincts. Looking at her degrees, she sure seems qualified, even more qualified than some who ARE licensed! I would, if it were me, be careful but follow my gut feelings about her...if it seems she is qualified and caring and a good fit for you, then I would try and see.......just my 2 cents. You can always back out quickly I think if things don't seem to be working.....
If your instincts are to NOT go with her, then trust that, too!

i wouldnt see an unlicensed therapist unless i knew they were being supervised by someone with a license....and even then i would REALLY have to like that person.

licensure is protection for the therapist and for the client, but it is also a safeguard to make sure that a therapist gets further training even after finishing school. continuing education credits/units are earned by going to conferences/workshops/trainings and (hopefully) keeping up to date with best practices and new techniques for treatment. (although, i think that new york is different - at least for psychologists - because you are licensed for life there. no CEU's required.)

trauma work is a big deal. i would want to know all about how she intends to help and why she chooses that particular technique. i would ask those questions even if she were licensed, but i would DEFINITELY as them in this case

I would run quickly another direction. Too many red flags here.

If she doesn't have a degree in Social Work or Psychology or some kind of therapy/counseling licensing, she could end up hurting you more than helping you.
She could have an MA in Art History.
Please be careful!

If not licensed then there is nothing to hold her to the standards of confidentiality. That would make me run.

My pdoc/therapist lost his license for reason I don't know because instead of accepting the 5 years suspension(at which time they would not have reinstated him) he chose to retire which ended the investigation and kept it from going public. He is now doing counseling, though he cannot accept insurance and no one will license him even just for counseling. I don't believe he can get malpractice insurance either. I have a new pdoc now. I would be very careful. Anyone can hang a shingle and call themselves a therapist. The only way you can know what they are trained in is to check out their credentials. No insurance, no license, be careful.

Thank you everyone. I appreciate the feeedbackalthough I have to admit I didn't expect it.

I know her Masters degrees are in Theology and Counseling.

Part of me really wants to see her b/c she is a spiritual director. A friend of mine met her at a retreat and thought she might be able to help me. But when I met with her she seemed more therapist-like.
My current T doesn't understand that part of my issues.
I am just so scared to trust anyone.

I've never told the whole story about my former T because I still feel somewhat loyal to her and I think she's an honest person with many skills to help people. But....

She has no license and her PhD is in communications. Her card used to say "psychotherapy". I think that was misleading, though she was totally open about it and said that she didn't know if insurance would cover her fees. She said "yes, anyone could put out a shingle" and you have to be careful. She told me she had 20 years of experience (true) and her results speak for themselves. She was recommended by someone to me who thinks highly of her.

However, the psychology board felt otherwise. They fined her a lot of money for "practicing without a license and calling herself a psychotherapist". I found this out online and confronted her about it. She got defensive, but told me her lawyer didn't think it was against the law to call yourself a therapist, as long as she didn't say psychologist. She paid the fines, she told me, and said if I didn't like her methods, I could see someone else. She has a big ego.

I stayed with her almost 7 years because I was so attached to her. I brought up her lack of credentials periodically, and she told me the same story: if I didn't trust her, and if I didn't like her blunt style (another problem), why didn't I see someone else? I don't know. I was too addicted to her, thought she helped me with a lot of here and now stuff, and I liked the fact that she was "in my community". I trusted her in spite of her background.

She told me of all the courses she took under psychiatrists, and so on, but she never got a license and I don't even know if she took any classes pertaining to therapy for her degree in Communications. Her thesis was on something esoteric that had nothing to do with psychology.

So, she treated me as a "borderline", said I was manipulating her, and never hugged me. She was/is very intelligent, and her methods were correct for someone with BPD. But, if I had to do it over, I would have quit much sooner, when I realized she didn't have a psychology degree or a license. I also thought her card was misleading because I assumed her PhD was in Psychology. She now calls herself a coach instead. To her credit, she attends meetings for religious therapists, but she doesn't have a degree in pastoral counseling either.

I'm sorry for telling my story here. I hope some of it is relevant. The bottom line is that it always bothered me that my T didn't have the "right degree" or a license. Plus, she charged on the high end just as IF she had the degree. I do think experience counts, and someone could be just as good whether they have the degree or not. In my case, it was mostly her unwillingness to let the "child parts" have a voice, that I didn't like. She was excellent with the kind of therapy she believed in.

I don't worry too much about licenses. I would be curious as to what the MA is in though because the other is a teaching degree. However, IMO it is never a good idea to work with more than one T at a time unless they are part of a treatment team and working together.

I don't think her reasons for not being licensed are convincing enough for me. How did you come across her? Was it on recommendation?

You can find certified pastoral counselors by going to the Pastoral Counseling website. They go through extensive training and are supervised. I saw one some years back and was quite pleased with his services.

Personally, I would not be comfortable seeing someone who is not licensed. There's no guarantee that they are keeping up with continuing education, or that they have the skills to actually help with what they claim to help with. Yes, there are bad licensed T's out there, but if you encounter one, at least you have the licensing board for recourse. My biggest issue is really the education, though...those that are licensed have been deemed by the board to have the appropriate education and experience to practice therapy, and they have to keep those skills up.

That said....if you really feel like this person could help you with the spiritual direction of your life, and you are willing to take a risk with her, then that's your choice. I would be very clear with her exactly why you are wanting to work with her, and let your regular T know as well.

From: http://www.guidetopsychology.com/cln_cns.htm

I think you might have trouble going to two T's at once; I tried that and it was horrible/didn't work out because you are divided in what you are working on, not concentrating on either well enough and your current T might not accept it. I would talk to your T about what you are wishing for and how you don't feel she can help and see if she has any ideas, maybe knows a colleague who might be able to help you better than she can?

i would go with the consensus here that your concerns about no license are valid. i am a therapist (same state, over 25 years), i am licensed, i take insurance, i keep up on training, and i am also a client of a licensed therapist as well.
my state is EXPENSIVE and i still pay less than $500 for license. the added security for client is that i have to do CEU's, as dr m mentioned, and that costs more, about $1,000 a year, plus lost income for the days i am not seeing clients while at training. added expense for the therapist, but absolutely essential if we want to keep up to date on research-proven treatment.
also, note that her card does NOT use the word psychotherapy or psychology. she has to avoid those terms because they are legally only for those licensed. that doesn't breed confidence.
here is what this situation feels like it might be: an older, and maybe even wiser, therapist who wants to make some money outside the usual mainstream. not dangerous in and of itself, but smacks a bit of pride or rejection of systems put in place to protect clients.
if for example, this therapist broke confidentiality with you, you would have no recourse to pursue her as she isn't under the legal requirements. very little accountability.
is this making sense?

i know in PA, psychotherapist is a term that means literally nothing. anyone can call themselves that...terms like psychologist are protected. in fact, you cant legally be called a psychologist until you are licensed here! unless of course, you are a certified school psychologist...thats the exception.

i dont know that cost is a good enough reason to not be licensed...as far as i know, therapists in private practice who are sole proprietors can generally write those things off as a business expense.

Her other degree is in education I would question her major.

I don't buy it that cost is reason not to keep license. My RN license is only $55/year plus completing minimum 12 hours CEUs.

I would check the licensing board where she should be licensed and find out if she has had any actions against her in the past.

Hasn't ANYONE been to see an unlicensed T? This is so weird!

Thanks everyone for the responses.
I appreciate, but I am just really really surprised.

And to top it off, I just had it confirmed today that the first therapist I saw, who WAS licensed and actually had a PhD (not just a Masters), violated confidentiality and discussed my treatment with my abuser's employer.
I am going to look into filing a complaint about him.

I am grateful for all your response, truly. You've all given me a lot to think about, and I think at this point I'm feeling very nervous about trusting any other T - licensed or not.

Things seem kind of hopeless.
My current T can't help me with the things I need to work on.

I see a spiritual director in addition to my regular T and I really like the arrangement. My sp.dir. sounds a lot like this one as far as training and it's been an amazing experience! She's really able to work with me on things that my T can't, and vice versa.