[skysblue]

So, who says every relationship needs to be perfect? Well, it seems that the consensus on this forum is that we should always be 100% compatible with our therapists. Is that even a realistic possibility? There has to be room for disagreements and for recognition that our T will not be able to always respond the way we want.

As I ponder the small (?) "rupture' with my T, I am leaning towards not giving it more importance than it deserves. I have a tendency to make mountains out of molehills.

I can know and understand that there are some areas in my relationship with T that are not the way I would prefer. But I can also continue to access her expertise and guidance in other areas.

That is the position I am taking now. I do not have to have a perfect relationship with her and I can just forget and ignore the parts that I have found uncomfortable.

I still rely on her for so much so I do not want some small conflict to interfere with that.

Has anyone been able to go forward positively and with good results even with having a small rupture that was never really resolved?

Originally Posted by skysblue

Has anyone been able to go forward positively and with good results even with having a small rupture that was never really resolved?

I have definitely had disagreements or hurts or ruptures with my T that weren't all neatly resolved.

I think part of any relationship is the need to be able to "agree to disagree"...and the need to be able to just let things go sometimes, take a leap of faith and a deep breath, and keep going.

I've always told T if I feel hurt and we've always been really open about misunderstandings, and he's amazing at owning his part in things....but that doesn't mean that in the end, the conflict disappeared and we came to a perfect agreement.

For me, I think that a big part of resolving a lot of ruptures is the agreement with T that our relationship is real and important, and that the underlying trust and caring don't change, even when one of us makes a mistake or we have a disagreement.

So, it's not always black (you're right!) or white (I'm right!), but often it's gray (we care about each other and the relationship and have enough trust in it to keep moving forward together, even if it means just putting the rupture behind us, unresolved).

I do thing that there are ruptures that CAN be repaired and I've had a lot of those too...but I don't believe they all *have* to be.

For me, my rupture had to be repaired. I would not have been able to continue on had it not. Maybe it depends on what the rupture was about? I know from reading your other thread that you don't really like people talking bad about your therapist, but in this situation, I think she needs to explain some things.Maybe just her fees? What she charges for and how much.

After reading this, I talked with mine and got everything straight on how she charges for things. I think that is important for clients to know "before" they hit a brick wall!

Personally, I think you need to resolve this. It was a HUGE hurt to you. Working through the hurts is why most of us go into therapy. It would have been much easier for me to stuff it down and try to make it go away, but it wasn't happening.

Maybe this is because of what I am learning in therapy? Learning NOT to stuff things down and try to ignore the pain I feel about it. She actually saw me confronting her as progress. Like I was standing up for myself.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

For me, my rupture had to be repaired. I would not have been able to continue on had it not. Maybe it depends on what the rupture was about? I know from reading your other thread that you don't really like people talking bad about your therapist, but in this situation, I think she needs to explain some things.Maybe just her fees? What she charges for and how much.

After reading this, I talked with mine and got everything straight on how she charges for things. I think that is important for clients to know "before" they hit a brick wall!

Personally, I think you need to resolve this. It was a HUGE hurt to you. Working through the hurts is why most of us go into therapy. It would have been much easier for me to stuff it down and try to make it go away, but it wasn't happening.

Maybe this is because of what I am learning in therapy? Learning NOT to stuff things down and try to ignore the pain I feel about it. She actually saw me confronting her as progress. Like I was standing up for myself.

Dang, Squiggle, I was afraid you'd say that. Boy, do you have my number. But right now I gotta stuff it and move forward with some other stuff. I'm sick of trying to make 'right' what may not be able to be 'right'. So, letting it be (at least for now) is what I need to do.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by treehouse

So, it's not always black (you're right!) or white (I'm right!), but often it's gray (we care about each other and the relationship and have enough trust in it to keep moving forward together, even if it means just putting the rupture behind us, unresolved).

Yeah, I think this is where I'm at. Some stuff is unresolved but the major sentiment I have is gratitude for my T and trust in most areas.

[Wren_]

Well, it seems that the consensus on this forum is that we should always be 100% compatible with our therapists. Is that even a realistic possibility?

Sky where are you getting this from? I can't imagine anyone being 100% compatible with anyone else

[crazycanbegood]

are you sure she was aware of the 160 before asking for the 40?? really i mean WOW! Okay, i'll TRY to let it go if you can.

Originally Posted by skysblue

Dang, Squiggle, I was afraid you'd say that. Boy, do you have my number. But right now I gotta stuff it and move forward with some other stuff. I'm sick of trying to make 'right' what may not be able to be 'right'. So, letting it be (at least for now) is what I need to do.

What it so important that you will stuff this HUGE pain that you have? I know you are hurting. I know you too well to think that you can just ignore this. You know that it will only get worse.

Face your fear and talk to her. Does she have any idea that she hurt you?

I don't think you are trying to make things 'right'. You are just needing some clarification. Do you always run from things like this? Is this why you ended up in therapy? Because you stuffed your feelings and emotions for so long that you felt you were messed up in the head?

I know that this is true for me. Once upon a time, I think I was normal. Then "life" happened and I was too much of a coward to stand up for myself when someone hurt me. I just ran away, hid, and licked my wounds. Well, you know what? I ended up with gapping wounds that were just about filled with maggots!! Not trying to sound gross, but I was rotting away because of all the hurt/pain I kept inside.

I would like to have that 'baby soft' skin again! The only way I can do this is to do things differently than I have most of my life. I feel like a b**** doing it, but I want to be free from this crap that I have done to myself!!

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

Sky where are you getting this from? I can't imagine anyone being 100% compatible with anyone else

my bad - I guess I must be thinking of my own hope and desire

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

Face your fear and talk to her.

Aaaaarrrrggggghhhhhhhh! I can't.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by crazycanbegood

are you sure she was aware of the 160 before asking for the 40?? really i mean WOW! Okay, i'll TRY to let it go if you can.

Well, a confession here. i had thought the same thing. See, I had left her $80.00 before I went on vacation. Then I wanted to be sure I wasn't underpaying her so I mailed her a check the next week when I was out of town.

Then to show that I was very conscientious, I left a message with her before I came in to next session and asked if I owed her any more so that I could bring a payment at that time,

Honestly honestly I thought it was then that she would protest that I had paid her too much. So when she left a message that another payment worth 1/2 session would be sufficient - another $40.00.

I really thought that she must have forgotten the first payment so I called her back and left message in a coy way saying, "Are you sure that payment equivalent to 2 1/2 sessions is enough? I could have sworn I owe you more than that." So, I was being dishonest about my own dismay at her charge.

So, when I went in to next session, I handed her the envelope with cash. She thought I might have paid her more than she requested because I made that deceitful comment and I told her , no, I paid you what you asked for.

But, I know that I will never ever be able to discuss this with her. If I did, I think it would end our relationship and I don't want that to happen.

And the rupture more significant is the phone call problem. But both of those i must avoid discussing for now. T and i had a good session last week and I look forward to next week.

[rainbow8]

I disagree that discussing your T's fees with her again will end your relationship. Why do you think that would happen?

I think it's important to understand her justification for charging you what she did. I just don't think your feelings are going to go away but if now isn't the right time, I'm sure it will come up again in your therapy and maybe then you'll handle it differently.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I disagree that discussing your T's fees with her again will end your relationship. Why do you think that would happen?

Because once she tells me out loud why it was such an effort for her to read my letters and how much of a burden it was and that's why she had to charge me so much, I will feel devastated. Right now, I can dream up my own interpretations. I cannot face that kind of reality and I think I would have to leave therapy with her. The hurt would be too too deep.

Originally Posted by skysblue

But both of those i must avoid discussing for now.........I look forward to next week.

Could it be that you are looking forward to the next session because Skysblue is not the one going in there? It is someone impersonating you? A mask that Sky puts on so that she doesn't disappoint anyone, or make anyone feel bad or mad at her?

I am not trying to be harsh, but I know that this is what I did/do. I have a closet full of costumes I wore into therapy. I can't tell you how many times I would tell my therapist that something was not bothering me, when she clearly knew it was! She even busted out with a little laugh one time because of how obvious it was that I WAS bothered by something we were talking about, but I tried to deny it.

I just wonder how much better you would feel if you just asked her for clarification? Maybe she made a mistake and doesn't realize it? I know that one time my therapist forgot to post one of my payments. When we were trying to figure up how many visits I had had up to that point, I counted one number and she had another.

I went back to my calendars and sent her all the dates that I had. She compared it to hers, and found that she had gotten the payment but forgot to send it into insurance!

See, this was an honest mistake, but something that needed to be clarified. She apologized and said that she was glad that I brought it to her attention.

I still think you need to talk to her. Or maybe write it out in a letter and send it to her? Or would she charge you to read a letter?

This is about you, not me. But I have a feeling if you let this go thinking you will address it later when you are not so emotional about it, it will come back to bite you in the butt!

Originally Posted by skysblue

Because once she tells me out loud why it was such an effort for her to read my letters and how much of a burden it was and that's why she had to charge me so much, I will feel devastated. Right now, I can dream up my own interpretations. I cannot face that kind of reality and I think I would have to leave therapy with her. The hurt would be too too deep.

Is that called living in 'fantasy land'?

Originally Posted by skysblue

Because once she tells me out loud why it was such an effort for her to read my letters and how much of a burden it was and that's why she had to charge me so much, I will feel devastated. Right now, I can dream up my own interpretations. I cannot face that kind of reality and I think I would have to leave therapy with her. The hurt would be too too deep.

I think what you are imagining is an "interpretation" when the reality is probably something much different than what you are imagining.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

I think what you are imagining is an "interpretation" when the reality is probably something much different than what you are imagining.

That's my fear. My imaginings give her the benefit of the doubt and I can live with that. But the reality is probably much worse and I'd prefer not to face that reality now. Fantasyland? yeah, sure, but why is that so bad?

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

Could it be that you are looking forward to the next session because Skysblue is not the one going in there? It is someone impersonating you? A mask that Sky puts on so that she doesn't disappoint anyone, or make anyone feel bad or mad at her?

This is about you, not me. But I have a feeling if you let this go thinking you will address it later when you are not so emotional about it, it will come back to bite you in the butt!

Well, sure, we all put on masks in some way or another. I think it's fantasy to even believe that we can be totally 'naked' even in therapy. So, my thinking is this - I have stuff to work on. I need my T to make progress on that stuff. I don't want to jeopardize our relationship. I want us to be able to keep working together.

So, if I avoid and put on a 'mask' in relation to one aspect of our relationship, so be it. It's like why risk destruction of our ability to work together because there's a small rupture in a part, not the whole?

I think it might come up in the future but it has to present itself naturally and organically. I will not bring it up just out of the blue. I am incapable of doing that. I have way too much fear. It is impossible no matter how much I may be convinced that it is the best thing to do. I CANNOT DO IT.

Originally Posted by skysblue

That's my fear. My imaginings give her the benefit of the doubt and I can live with it. But the reality is probably much worse and I'd prefer not to face that reality now. Fantasyland? yeah, sure, but why is that so bad?

You are catastrophizing about this. That is why this fantasy is a problem. You've built this up in your mind to be somehow a reflection of who you are rather than simply a discussion about a problem with a bill. Come back down to earth and just discuss your questions about your bill. You'll get an answer (which will have nothing to do with how difficult you are as a patient) and then you'll be able to move on. Approach this as the financial/business matter that it is. Set aside your idea that your T is going to think you are too difficult. That really has nothing to do with a question about a bill.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

You are catastrophizing about this. That is why this fantasy is a problem. You've built this up in your mind to be somehow a reflection of who you are rather than simply a discussion about a problem with a bill. Come back down to earth and just discuss your questions about your bill. You'll get an answer (which will have nothing to do with how difficult you are as a patient) and then you'll be able to move on. Approach this as the financial/business matter that it is. Set aside your idea that your T is going to think you are too difficult. That really has nothing to do with a question about a bill.

farmergirl - of course you are absolutely right. My cognitive analytical brain could not agree with you more.

But my emotional brain is in control of this and I am not able to get past it. If it were only so easy to 'come back to earth.' I wish...

[crazycanbegood]

This thread should be about skysblue but I. just. don't. get. it. 2.5 session payment , 200!! for a few voicemails and letters?? Like, really?? Um, uh. Wow! I mean, I just can't reconcile it. I can't!

To me, it doesn't matter if you were slightly deceptive in checking the amount she was asking for. It is unbelievable by anyone's standards! And besides you are a client and T should be used to clients' discomfort.

But um does she have a policy where you must pay for the session even if you can't make it since its *your* session time? Still the 40 dollars extra....!!!

So amazingly unbelievable!

[lastyearisblank]

I am not a big expert on love or anything but I agree with the title of this thread, that you can go to a T without feeling 100% ok with them, and still benefit. Just like people can live together without having perfect accord or understanding and still love each other very much. Yes that can happen all the time.

What is it about this bill situation that is making it so hard to talk about? I would be a little scared of where that discussion might lead sure but why does it feel so important? Do you think this might be a new uncharted area for therapy to go into? (Asking for more from relationships?)

[crazycanbegood]

skysblue, at risk of sounding like I am criticizing your T, i think your T values her time more than she thinks reading your letters is a great bother. Whatever your issues are I doubt they are overwhelming to her or unlike so many others.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Well, it seems that the consensus on this forum is that we should always be 100% compatible with our therapists.

I don't think that is the consensus here. Some may think that.

I think my T told me once that the relationship is "good enough" if you agree with your therapist 1/3 of the time, you disagree and mend the rupture 1/3 of the time, and you agree to disagree and let the rupture ride 1/3 of the time. This comes from Winicott, I think.

Originally Posted by skysblue

As I ponder the small (?) "rupture' with my T, I am leaning towards not giving it more importance than it deserves.

I am like that too. I tend to let the small stuff go.

Originally Posted by skysblue

Has anyone been able to go forward positively and with good results even with having a small rupture that was never really resolved?

Absolutely. If my T and I took time out to fix every small bump we would never get anywhere. It would be really tedious too. I think it is a good thing about a relationship if you can be confident that you have a solid and close relationship and not need to tend to every hangnail. You can still like and respect and trust each other without agreeing on everything. Everyone has their list of non-negotiables, though, and there will be things that are so important and that one can't let them slide. If you can't mend ruptures on those key things, then the relationship may suffer or end.

That said, I think fees are important and should be discussed and absolutely clear. Fees are uncomfortable for many clients to discuss. But this is part of doing business for the T and the T is usually very experienced and comfortable discussing this. I hope you can clear up any misunderstanding you have about fees with your T. If she is going to charge extra for out of session time, she needs to tell you that BEFORE she charges it. Until then, one presumes there is no fee unless she has previously told you that or it was in the informed consent form you signed when you first started with her. For example, my daughter's T states in her informed consent that she accepts phone calls of less than 10 minutes from clients, but longer than that, the reimbursement rate is... A T needs to be really clear about fees because they form an important part of the "frame" of therapy. I hope you will discuss this with her.

[Wren_]

((((((((((((((((Sky))))))))))))))))))))))