[Asiablue]

Some more idle wonderings from me.

On this forum, people talk alot about the therapeutic relationship and how important unconditional positive regard is and how the nurturing from a therapist is healing for them. My question is, for people who are not in therapy and don't need to be' ie; emotionally regulated/balanced, do you think they find that exact feeling from someone in their lives, like from a parent or family member?

I know not everyone in therapy is looking for the uncondional positive regard or nurturing, some don't care if it's there or not so i'm not over-generalizing.

[Perna]

I think "unconditional positive regard" is sort of what one should be giving one's self, it's self-esteem. We shouldn't be looking for it from someone else, the other person can't know our circumstances so the "unconditional" is kind of hard for someone else. Everyone though can do with nurturing by other people at times; I know my husband provides that for me but that too can best be provided by one's self. I know where I hurt the best and where and how "being good to myself" can help.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by Perna

I think "unconditional positive regard" is sort of what one should be giving one's self, it's self-esteem. We shouldn't be looking for it from someone else, the other person can't know our circumstances so the "unconditional" is kind of hard for someone else. Everyone though can do with nurturing by other people at times; I know my husband provides that for me but that too can best be provided by one's self. I know where I hurt the best and where and how "being good to myself" can help.

Thanks for this, it never occured to me that unconditional regard is about self-esteem. So do you think a therapist gives you that until you can learn to give it to yourself? I always thought they were modelling on a relationship you never got. Man, could they not just tell you, "i am giving UPR to show you how to treat to yourself??" lol

[rainbow8]

My T does Internal Family Systems therapy. She has told me that she is acting as my "Self" until I can build it up so I can have a Self who can lead all of the parts of my personality successfully. She wants me to nurture myself, but I still need her to do it with me. I think we can get some of the nurturing from other people in our lives. It's a combination, but I agree with Perna that it's something we need to learn to give ourselves, and people who don't need therapy, apparently can do that.

[PreacherHeckler]

The other day I read about a study that was done recently to assess the validity of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in terms of whether or not happiness is dependent upon having all those needs met in the order he believed was necessary. Turns out Maslow was right about some things and wrong about others. The study confirmed that there are human needs which are universal throughout different countries and cultures, but not necessarily in his particular order, and he also placed too much emphasis on the self as the greatest source of happiness and fulfillment. Satisfying, nurturing social connections were more strongly associated with happiness across cultures, so my guess is that people who are happy with their lives and who don't need the kind of relationship a therapist provides have probably had those needs met already by other people.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

My question is, for people who are not in therapy and don't need to be' ie; emotionally regulated/balanced, do you think they find that exact feeling from someone in their lives, like from a parent or family member?

Not everyone. I think there are many reasons why people aren't in therapy. I think some people would never go to therapy because they're embarrassed to do that, think it signifies weakness, they don't know what they're missing in life or that a T can help them find that, they are focusing on more important stuff (a la Maslow, like putting food on the table), they are OK with themselves and their lives the way they are even if not perfect, fully actualized, emotionally healthy, etc. Sometimes I feel that there are a lot of people who have not had therapy who are a lot more messed up than I am! I wish they would have therapy because it would make my life easier if they learned some of the great things one can learn in therapy.

As you said, there are also people in therapy not for the reason of unconditional positive regard. I guess I like the UPR, but it wasn't what brought me to therapy or what keeps me there. Also, a lot of therapists don't practice UPR. I think it's a really interesting question, Asiablue. Maybe therapists tweak the UPR by what they figure out that client needs. I think for clients who have a strong need for the UPR, an important task of therapy is to learn to provide it to themselves, to feel "OK" without having the T give them UPR, as Perna and Rainbow suggested.

That sounds like an interesting study, PreacherH. The social connections is Maslow's third need, so he placed that one before self esteem (fourth) and self-actualization (fifth). Maybe people have different needs at different times in their lives. I'm in a phase right now where I think I may be working on the fifth. The third (social) really has a back seat right now. I don't really have it currently--kind of in a loner phase, I guess. So I think the order of those last 3 needs can be interchanged, or shift around. I think I do agree with the order of the first two needs, though (physical and safety).

[nicoleb2]

My T does not give me UPR. She will tell me when she has issues with anything, which is helpful to me because it means that perhaps I need to re-think my choices/views. Our current agreement is that sessions will be end early if I refuse to even try to cope with emotions. This idea really scares me, but at the same time, I know this is something I need to get me dealing with stuff

[PreacherHeckler]

Yes Sunrise, it was pretty interesting, especially since Maslow's theory had never been put to the test. What I found particularly interesting was that even people who had unmet physical and safety needs benefited from satisfying social connections, which speaks to the myth that money alone cures social ills. It's not enough to feed and shelter people; we need to find ways to help them feel more connected to others as well.

[PreacherHeckler]

I don't personally believe in UPR as it's generally defined today, but I read somewhere that Carl Rogers never meant it to be defined in the way that many T's think. I wish I could remember where I read that because he didn't mean that everything a client does is ok or shouldn't be challenged, but I can't remember exactly what he wrote or where I read it.

[Butterflies Are Free]

Well, I guess that the theraputic relationship is healing for me because that is where I could begin to address my fear/shame from CSA. I have nurturing relationships with family members/friends but also need that from my T while dealing with past memories.

[learning1]

What is UPR?

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by learning1

What is UPR?

That's Unconditional Positive Regard.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

I don't personally believe in UPR as it's generally defined today,

How is it generally defined today?

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

I read somewhere that Carl Rogers never meant it to be defined in the way that many T's think.

Interesting. I have seen videos of Carl Rogers doing therapy. He practices such a "pure" form of client-centered therapy (since he is the originator). He sticks with the program and it isn't diluted by combining it with other types of therapy from other schools of thought (the eclectic approach). I always have thought of my T as client-centered and yes, he knows how to provide UPR, but when I saw Rogers in action, it made me realize how directive my T is, in comparison (and how eclectic too). But yet I don't consider him very directive at all.

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

I wish I could remember where I read that because he didn't mean that everything a client does is ok or shouldn't be challenged,

I agree, this is not what Rogers meant by UPR. Do you think some Ts do this and consider it to be UPR?

[PreacherHeckler]

Sunrise, some of the criticism of UPR actually came from Rogers himself because he saw that many therapists were viewing it as an absolute, black or white concept, when realistically Rogers knew that UPR could not be experienced by therapists during every moment of contact with clients. In his article "On the Necessary and Sufficient Conditions of Therapeutic Personality Change" he modified his definition somewhat to reflect that reality, stating that UPR was probably an unfortunate phrase because, while the therapist should experience many moments of unconditional positive regard, occasionally the therapist would experience only conditional positive regard or perhaps even a negative regard.
But the phrase has certainly retained its popularity over the years even though he recognized and tried to correct its inherent weakness as an "all or nothing" concept. I've seen several T's in my lifetime who have either forgotten or never knew that he had modified his definition somewhat because their positive regard was so unconditional it kept me stuck in patterns of thinking and behavior that should have been challenged and not simply accepted in the name of UPR.

[sunrise]

I always think of UPR as being accepting of the person rather than their actions.

I think a T can give UPR and still be challenging. In fact, challenging a person's actions could be viewed as a way of showing respect to the person. (I think respect is a cousin of UPR.) PreacherH, I am sorry you had a bad experience with UPR with your T. Doesn't sound good!

[PreacherHeckler]

Yes, he defined UPR as being accepting of the person regardless of the behavior, which in reality is impossible to translate into any relationship 100% of the time. Probably easier for therapists than for the general public because they are trained to look beneath the behavior and they don't have to live with their clients, but he did eventually realize that not even a therapist feels positive all the time toward a client. While he initially tended to downplay the importance of unconscious thoughts and feelings, later on he did recognize that therapists, as human beings, could never be fully aware of their own unconscious biases which could cause them to unconsciously behave in ways that did not always demonstrate UPR.
In a lot of ways it's the secular version of "Hate the sin; love the sinner" and people really struggle with that concept too because it means accepting the person regardless of the behavior.
You're right, Sunrise; sometimes challenging a behavior or a thought pattern demonstrates respect more than ignoring it does and that's another reason why UPR has been misunderstood and misapplied so often. Rogers advocated congruency and genuineness, and how does a therapist display genuineness if his feelings are occasionally at odds with UPR? If a therapist displays behavior which is not congruent with his own feelings at the time, then he's not being genuine.

Think its about "Good enought", if as babies/children we got "good enought" parenting then we have internalized that and are able to add to it as we go through life, we are able to recognise it and use it and make it ours. If we didnt get "good enought" then it will be harder to "use" and "recognise" and needs therapy to help that process become natural.