[learning1]

Do our t's want to meet the "ugly" depressed parts of us? And if they do, isn't it just for the purpose of understanding us to help us, rather than actually wanting to experience those parts of us?

I'm struggling with, as my t put it, letting him see my depression, which is not a pretty part of me. Although I trust he is trying to help me, I don't understand it very well. T seemed miserable when, as he put it, he was "in the depression with me". Is it reasonable to expect T's to like all parts of us? I'm thinking probably not. Especially the part of me that's overly self focused and self indulgent (the depression part). I hated making t seem miserable, which also makes me think he dislikes me.

After all, I'm in therapy to change something, so if T accepted and liked everything exactly as is, how could he encourage me to change anything? I really don't understand if I'm supposed to show him these "not pretty" parts. He said thank you for letting him be with me in that depressed part of me, which suggests he wants me to show him.

On another note, thanking me didn't make any sense at all because I didn't have a clue he thought he was doing that, let alone take any initiative to allow it. It seems more like something he made up. But I suppose I probably don't mind going along with T's metaphors once he decides to tell me about them. And I'm delighted he wants to thank me for anything no matter how nonsensical .

If I am supposed to show him the ugly parts, it seems like the only point would be for him to show me why it's wrong to think/be that way. And that will hurt. And I already know, at least somewhat, why it's not good to look at things in depressed mode. So is it better to do the best I can not to indulge the ugly, self indulgent, depressed parts of me (by not showing them when I can help it)?

I 'spect I've got a few too many questions in this post, but I need to go check my laundry and stop editing this thing now

T wants to know ALL sides of you. Because each part of you is equally important. To be able to help someone a way that T's help someone, is to get in the 'muck' with them, so that we can figure out what tools need to be used to get out. But it's also a part of that person, and T's need as complete of a picture as possible to aid you through your journey.

I dont think T *likes* the depressed part. But T accepts it and respects it. It has a place inside of you. It is not judged as good or bad, it simply is a part of you. You cannot *make* your T miserable. Your T is empathizing with you and feeling with you, and sometimes it makes him feel sad inside I'm sure, and he would only possibly feel miserable because he hates that you have to carry this inside of you on your own so much.

T's job is to help you make changes. To do so, he needs to know all that we're dealing with. And, you have to accept all those parts of yourself. Acceptance doesn't mean approval of something. It just means, for now it is what it is and can work on it later.

I would assume he said thank you because he knows showing the depressed side is hard and miserable for you, but you tolerated it because it was important to do so.

[childofyen]

I can really relate to this topic. I think I've been working on this with my T behind the scenes. We haven't had a discussion about showing her my depression, but I have been working on being more honest or more authentic in session and I think some of my internal battle has been over whether or not to share my ugly bits. So... I have thoughts that I wanna share, but let me preface them by saying that I'm in the middle of working this out myself. Take everything I say with a grain of salt and forgive me if I'm way off base. ETA: Or just read what Stormy said. That's what I meant.

There have been a couple of weeks where I've gone to T and done a poor job of hiding my depression. Sometimes during those sessions she has looked just as depressed as I've felt. I often leave on these days feeling guilty for bringing her down and concerned that she'll give up on me.

But she hasn't given up on me, and when I return the following week she's typically more motivated than ever to meet me where I'm at.

So... I think that sharing honestly with her about my depression, and allowing her to feel it with me has been productive because it gives her first hand knowledge of what I'm experiencing. I think she does feel it too, but the difference is that once I leave she can get out of that mode and come to a new perspective that will help me find a way out. T can't lead me out of a cave if she never walked in. (I'm picturing a less empathic T at the mouth of a cave yelling something unhelpful like "Just snap out of it" or "Meditate and you won't KNOW you're in a cave!"

My point is that my T has never told me my depression is self inflicted, she's never told me my feelings were wrong, she's never encouraged me to just snap out of it. She does teach me about acceptance, what I can choose not to accept and what I must accept. I can choose not to live a miserable life by continuing to do the work necessary to get out of the depression (i.e. continuing therapy, learning honesty, etc) and I can choose to accept that right now depression is where I'm at... and while that's not ideal, I can choose to not blame myself and just get back to work.

I guess I don't see my depression as "a part of me". I see it as an experience I go through, and unfortunately I've gone through that experience with great frequency. I'm pretty sure my T doesn't see the depression as who I am either. But by being open and honest about my depression, I have allowed my T to teach me skills to deal with the depression when it sets in. I know it pains my T to watch me go through a depressive episode, but by letting him in, he is there to support me for however long the episode lasts.

[sunrise]

I actually hate going to see my T when I am feeling depressed. It doesn't make sense, but feelings often don't. I was feeling particularly down one day at my session and told T of my discomfort in coming to see him like that. He was kind of amused and said but that's why he's there! It isn't that he likes my being depressed--he would of course like for me to be happy all the time. But it's almost like his reason for existence (professional existence) is to help clients when we need him, when we're depressed, or manic, or anxious. In an odd way, he is eager to see me that way because then he can swing into action and do something! He doesn't want me to be shy about being depressed and try to hide that from him. He wants to know what's going on so he can help.

When I am feeling down and don't want to go to therapy but do, I find that I often leave the session feeling so much better. My T and I connect very easily and strongly and I think the strength of that lifts my spirits.

Learning1, I hope you can let your T try to help you and allow him to know you are depressed and experience that too. I think he thanked you because he was expressing appreciation for being vulnerable with him and letting him see you at what was not your best.

Can I also say that I think you are being very judgmental about your depressed self when you say it is "ugly"? Being depressed doesn't mean ugly. A person can be depressed and yet kind, caring, beautiful, thoughtful, witty, etc. Maybe that's your depression talking when you use the word "ugly". I doubt your T sees your depressed self as ugly. Probably just sees you as authentic, vulnerable, and in need of support.

[Dr.Muffin]

i can't speak for any therapist other than myself, and my answer is yes! i always tell my clients that they dont have to hide or keep up pretense with me. the calm, reasonable, lovely person that sits before me is NOT the one in need of treatment...we have to see what needs work if we are to work with it.

[learning1]

Thanks for all the nice, supportive comments everyone. They are making me feel better but it's still so confusing. Depression is self focused, self pitying, etc., or at least I know mine often is. T can't possibly want to encourage me to act that way, even if it's just in therapy. Depression is the main reason I went to therapy, so I haven't kept it secret, but I try not to be whiny about it either. I guess I'm pretty nervous about saying the wrong thing around t. It sure sounds like he's telling me what I'm doing wrong sometimes, and I hate that. It seems like I should try to show him the best I can do, not the worst.

[SilentLucidity]

learning1, thank you so much for this thread. I've been thinking all week about going in and re-introducing myself to my T in my next session for the very reasons you are talking about. Your concerns resonate very strongly with me and where I currently reside in my head. I'm not sure I have the courage to just say it though.

[SoupDragon]

I struggle with how much to share with T too - I find some of the depressive thoughts I have really frightening and in many ways would like to talk about them - but I too am not sure whether T would want to look at this stuff with me.

The bit that says to share, tells me that in order to help me, T must know me well, not just the good bits, but all the bits - and besides what are the disadvantages to sharing the depressed stuff?

[ECHOES]

Do T's want to? I would ask my T but .. too late. That part of me has been there plenty of times.

Yes, they want to see and welcome every single part of you.

[learning1]

I wanted to reply some more than I did yesterday. You all gave me lots of things that will stick in my mind to think about.

Originally Posted by childofyen

I can really relate to this topic. I think I've been working on this with my T behind the scenes. We haven't had a discussion about showing her my depression, but I have been working on being more honest or more authentic in session and I think some of my internal battle has been over whether or not to share my ugly bits. So... I have thoughts that I wanna share, but let me preface them by saying that I'm in the middle of working this out myself. Take everything I say with a grain of salt and forgive me if I'm way off base. ETA: Or just read what Stormy said. That's what I meant.

There have been a couple of weeks where I've gone to T and done a poor job of hiding my depression. Sometimes during those sessions she has looked just as depressed as I've felt. I often leave on these days feeling guilty for bringing her down and concerned that she'll give up on me.

But she hasn't given up on me, and when I return the following week she's typically more motivated than ever to meet me where I'm at.

So... I think that sharing honestly with her about my depression, and allowing her to feel it with me has been productive because it gives her first hand knowledge of what I'm experiencing. I think she does feel it too, but the difference is that once I leave she can get out of that mode and come to a new perspective that will help me find a way out. T can't lead me out of a cave if she never walked in. (I'm picturing a less empathic T at the mouth of a cave yelling something unhelpful like "Just snap out of it" or "Meditate and you won't KNOW you're in a cave!"

My point is that my T has never told me my depression is self inflicted, she's never told me my feelings were wrong, she's never encouraged me to just snap out of it. She does teach me about acceptance, what I can choose not to accept and what I must accept. I can choose not to live a miserable life by continuing to do the work necessary to get out of the depression (i.e. continuing therapy, learning honesty, etc) and I can choose to accept that right now depression is where I'm at... and while that's not ideal, I can choose to not blame myself and just get back to work.

my t told me we had been working on this without directly talking about it all along, similar to what you said about working on it behind the scenes.

it's helpful to know other t's look depressed sometimes too.

the last part i bolded is helpful for me to think about

Originally Posted by farmergirl

I guess I don't see my depression as "a part of me". I see it as an experience I go through, and unfortunately I've gone through that experience with great frequency. I'm pretty sure my T doesn't see the depression as who I am either. But by being open and honest about my depression, I have allowed my T to teach me skills to deal with the depression when it sets in. I know it pains my T to watch me go through a depressive episode, but by letting him in, he is there to support me for however long the episode lasts.

my t wanted me to describe my depression as an object outside of me. i've had that in mind and haven't figured out a way to make sense of it yet. i'm glad to know it works for you.

Originally Posted by sunrise

Can I also say that I think you are being very judgmental about your depressed self when you say it is "ugly"? Being depressed doesn't mean ugly. A person can be depressed and yet kind, caring, beautiful, thoughtful, witty, etc. Maybe that's your depression talking when you use the word "ugly". I doubt your T sees your depressed self as ugly. Probably just sees you as authentic, vulnerable, and in need of support.

That was nice to read. I'd like if my t thinks that. But he isn't like some t's I've had who always say predictably supportive things. He keeps me anxious about what he thinks and I definitely can't be surprised if he makes some more pointed questions or observations that really sound like criticism. Which doesn't inspire self-confidence, so maybe I should go back to those predictably, meaninglessly nice t's. sigh. around and around. I'm not really thinking about changing t's again atm. But maybe I will think about how long to keep doing this if it doesn't make a difference.

[Butterflies Are Free]

Well, I was struggling with my depression yesterday and I brought it right into my session because I wanted my T's support around it. She doesn't like it that I have it because it is hard on me, but she wants me to share it with her and allow her to help support me, which is great.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by Butterflies Are Free

Well, I was struggling with my depression yesterday and I brought it right into my session because I wanted my T's support around it. She doesn't like it that I have it because it is hard on me, but she wants me to share it with her and allow her to help support me, which is great.

hmm, that sounds like it would work if your depression comes and goes and you know fairly clearly when it's come and gone. Mine's not clear to me like that. IDK, if I knew for sure I was experiencing depression, seems like I'd know the way I was experiencing things was distorted and so I'd stop seeing them that way. Sometimes I'm pretty sure depression is affecting something and that I should probably try to look at it differently. I can't figure out where in there I can tell t about something without complaining about something where I pretty much know what I should be doing. Not that I never complain when I know better, but I don't suppose my t would be very tolerant of that.

Anyway, I'm glad your t was able to support you!