Defense Mechanisms

Hi there. I have had severe depression for 19 years and am currently getting therapy for it (as well as meds ofcourse).

So I started a new therapy with a new person. She seems ok. But I am having the same problems as with my last therapist. Well actually its 2 problems. I wondered if anyone had any ideas as to how to address these issues, because if I actually talk to the therapist herself about it, then this starts the defenses up, starts the cycle and ruins the whole session. So I thought I would ask here instead because its totally separate from my therapy session (and anonymous).

1. Defense mechanisms starting up in the session and ruining it. When she starts to talk about anything of depth, then my defense mechanisms start up without me knowing, and next thing I know the session is over. These mechanisms include me turning into a (expletive), intellectualizing everything and becoming overtly condescending towards the therapist. I want to prove her wrong all the time also. This phenomenon usually results in me spending the next week feeling extremely guilty and idiotic, and kicking myself for wasting yet another session. And wondering if she will end our therapy next session.

2. Relationship with therapist. She says we have none, and we need to have one. So I ask her how, and she gives me some wishy washy answers that do not (to me anyway) relate to the question. Maybe they do but I just cannot comprehend it. I thought that we had a client-therapist relationship because I trusted her enough to tell her my problems and keep coming back each week, but apparently that is not enough. How should I be acting and what actions should I be doing to gain this other relationship? If telling her my problems isn't enough, what else should I be doing? I am a completely nonsocial person so it could be something obvious that I am missing. She keeps saying "Open up" but that is a very vague, wishy-washy, generalist term - can someone please tell me specifically what this means, in relation to a client therapist relationship?

Thankyou.

Hi KazzaX, and welcome!

I'm wondering what type of therapy you are in.

Defense mechanisms are very normal, self-protecting. Also they get in the way of what we want, but we are where we are and we just keep working on them. I would be inclined to have defense mechanisms pop up if someone demanded me to 'open up'. It takes time. And if I was told there is no relationship, it would make it that much harder, if not impossible.

Hiya, thanks for your response!

Well I'm not sure what type of therapy this is. It isn't psychotherapy (I don't think.. I will ask her next session). Reason I am posting it in this section is because these are the same problems that ruined my last stint (which WAS psychotherapy). And in the future I will be trying psychotherapy again when I can afford it, so I need to address these problems now, or they are going to just ruin any therapy I have.

I haven't been going to this new therapist for all that long, that is probably why she brought up the relationship idea etc - I'm not offended by being told we have no relationship because I've only been to like 6 sessions so far. But the lack of relationship problem occurred for the 2.5 years I was at my psychotherapist too, so it is definitely an issue on my end. In hindsight, the lack of relationship was what ruined my psychotherapy experience. So I want to learn how to do it now, because otherwise it will happen regardless of what therapy and regardless of who my therapist is, in the future.

Like I said before, I am a completely nonsocial person and the only person I really had a relationship with before was my mother. But even in that relationship, it did not include sharing my feelings, etc. So its a new skill that I need to learn, in order for any therapy to help at all. Any tips?

KazzaX, when I first read your initial post, I missed that she said you need to have a relationship. I'm glad she feels that way. I misunderstood and thought she didn't think it was necessary, or encouraged. Whew! Glad I was wrong!

It takes 2 to have a relationship, even in a therapy setting. I think this is something that you and she would benefit from talking a lot more about. You need some clarity about why she said this. What makes a relationship? What is missing, etc. that makes her say you don't have one? I completely agree with you that going to sessions and being as open as possible is part of the creation of the relationship. Relationships have beginnings, and grow from there.

When she said you don't have one (relationship), were you able to disagree and tell her your thoughts?

The relationship matures the longer it continues. I found it strange that she said you weren't having a relationship, just turning up to start with is the beginning. The defenses used are supposed to be their in the therapy room so they can be looked at, thought about and talked about, that indicates a realtionship, can you imagine exposing all your defenses to be explored with a stranger? If you had an easy going relationship from the get go, I'd find that odd.

I'm not sure what you mean by "exposing my defenses". This therapist knows more about my defenses than I do.. lol. I didn't even know I had any until recently. And we have brought them up in 5 of those 6 sessions. So we have talked about those a LOT, etc, but I'm just wondering how I can get past them so that they don't ruin every session.

In terms of the relationship, that's two therapists now that have said the same thing. That I am not allowing myself to have the right relationship with them, and that this relationship is crucial to therapy. The last therapist told me the same thing after I had been seeing her for 2.5 years. So I am definitely doing something wrong here. But the annoying thing is that both of these people cannot seem to tell me what exactly they are looking for, in terms of relationship. I mean I go in there every week and talk about my depression issues etc. But this is not enough - what else am I meant to do to achieve the appropriate relationship?

BTW I have some sort of avoidant attachment disorder too so it's probably something that is obvious to you guys, that I am missing. I assume I am supposed to "attach" to her or something? I have no idea how to do that, never tried it before haha.

Thats what I'm saying, if your therapist knows all about your defenses then you have trusted her enought> I dont understand why they are telling you yoru not allowing yourself ot have a "right" sort of relationship with them> I've never heard such a thing, no matter how your present yourself and how you relate or dont relate that is part of the therapy which is talked and talked about until understood, what more is there to a relationship then working through deep immorst fears? If they expect you to lay this aside without working through, which can take yrs, then thats not therapy, thats just catching a ball thats thrown. Sorry I am baffled by your therapists take on what consitutes a relationship.

There is a case by a french therapist, cant remember his name, where a client came to see him for a yr, and never ever spoke, at the end of that yr the client stood up and thanked the therapist for helping him. The point of that story is that its your therapy, how you need to be and how you relate isn't to be dictated too.

Could you tell us some of the wishy washy things she said about how to have a relationship? That might help me understand better what she is getting at. Because what you report sounds very odd, that she would say you don't have a relationship with her. It sounds like you do have some kind of relationship and you are trying, you keep showing up each week, you share things with her, and you want to work on your defenses. Her "we don't have a relationship" stance sounds kind of invalidating!

I don't understand how your therapy is not psychotherapy and would be interested to learn more. If the person is a therapist and you go talk to them for an hour, then it's psychotherapy, isn't it? Unless they are more of a Life Coach offering coaching services? If she calls herself a therapist, then it seems like she would be doing psychotherapy with clients. Can you say more about your therapy and why it is not psychotherapy?

I think some types of psychotherapy emphasize the relationship more than others. With my first therapist, I never thought we had a relationship really, and no one told me we were supposed to have one. We just did therapy together and worked on my problems. We made some progress. In retrospect, maybe we did have some kind of relationship. Maybe a better term is we had a "working alliance". We tried to figure out solutions to my problems and ideas for me to implement them. With my second (current) therapist, we have a really strong relationship--nothing like the first therapist. I have had lots more success in therapy with him. But the first T and I got stuff done too. So I'm not sure a relationship is always necessary to make at least some progress. It depends on why you are in therapy. If the reason you are in therapy is to learn how to have relationships with people, then I guess it would be essential to have a relationship with your T.

I think it would be helpful if you could talk to your T more about what she means about having a relationship and why she doesn't consider what you have now to be a relationship. You said she said some wishy washy things when you asked her this. I hope you can share with her that you don't understand what she means and ask her to explain in a different way. It is up to her to make sure you understand. So please keep on this topic with her! Good luck.

I've found myself relating to some of the stuff you've written so I'm not sure if that makes me the right person to respond or the wrong person. When I first started therapy I was so anxious and everything comes out as thoughts and not feelings...It took me almost 8 months to get to the point where I could talk about the feelings behind them...

so I was thinking when you wrote about relationship and defense mechanisms...this is how it has sort of worked for me... I think I started out being very defensive looking back...My theory is the relationship starts when you show up for the second visit. My T. helped me realize some of my defense mechanisms.... But just realizing them didn't help me change them.. What helped develop the relationship was time and listening and taking chances to share some of the issues from the past that led me to have those defense mechanisms.. Learning that the T. would be able to hear things, be caring and a safe person. Once I learned what feelings/thoughts those defense mechanisms were used to protect myself from...then I was able to see if that was an appropriate/grown up way of handling situation and then I could decide if it needs to be changed. If I had to describe my attachment type I would call it fearful avoidant... my T. said it could take years for me to get to a place where I could completely trust him to share my emotions/feelings and not just thoughts and facts...

You should just keep talking about it with t. Maybe ask... what could we do in session tonight that would help develop a relationship? Maybe it would get T. to give a more specific response... Just some of my thoughts..

Wishing you lots of patience in your new T. journey

Hi Kazzax! I've been thinking about you. You sound good.

My T uses a bit of a trick to stop my knee-jerk disagreeing with him. We discussed that I need him to get my attention somehow because otherwise I WILL automatically object to everything he says - it's not that he's wrong, as much as I have to be right, because I have to take care of myself, because the other person ALWAYS gets at least part of it wrong, so how can they be trusted? That was true in childhood, and that is why we developed a dismissive attachment style (among other reasons). So his 'trick' is to say something like, 'now this is just my opinion' - but it stops the flow and GETS ME TO SAY YES, IT'S OKAY, DON'T BE SHY, SAY IT! - he HAS to be laughing inside at how this works everytime and I am completely unaware, but as YOU say, you are unaware you are being oppositional.

They are more aware and in control of what they are saying - we are trying to change our reactions. Just admitting and asking help for this made a big difference in my relationship with my current therapist, as I was stuck in this pattern for decades. Hope this sheds some light on your situation.