Question on how to deal with a former therapist in a non-therapy setting.

At one point it seemed likely I was going to move into T's suburb.

Me: I might see you in the supermarket.

T: Yes, you might. Do you want me to know you or not?

Me: Huh? Don't be silly! I am proud to know you.

But I guess for some people, being seen in the company of a psychotherapist would be embrassing. Or it might trigger feelings they don't want to feel in a public place.

No way! That's going too far!

Way to go on saying hi, that whole situation would make me uncomfortable and not being spoken to would reinforce negative beliefs it sounds so totally hurtful although I understand that some t's are required to behave in such horrible ways to 'protect' clients. I do understand part if the rationale but also think how damaging it could be. Debbie I'm glad CT has helped with this and that OT did respond. As far as your last post maybe stick to hi next time you see her and see how that goes?

. . . for you.

Individual differences make it important for a therapist to ask a client how she might want him to "react" if they meet in public AND if the meeting occurs, it's critical that he brings it up at the next session to process how she felt about the meeting. It's all grist for the mill!

Tiger, that was the last meeting

I was thinking of:
Hi, Name.
Maybe a Hi, Debbie back.
We see each other all the time at the gym, so I wanted to come and introduce myself, Debbie from the gym.

CT called it a weird standoff. She won't leave, I won't leave (and neither of us should). She actually used those words. But I think the situation should be addressed. Maybe I didn't handle it appropriately at the beginning and that has to do with feelings of abandonment and rejection, and both freezing inside and wanting to turn and run the other way whenever I see her. But I want to handle it appropriately now, and want to get to the point where she knows I'll occasionally make eye contact, say hi, good morning, how are you, see you in there, and pretty much treat her like I treat those I see in the classes all the time that haven't become closer friends. I want to move her from the "Only therapist to ever reject me and dump me" box (which I really have gotten over, at least intellectually if not primally, as she still seems to set off a flight or flight response (nope I didn't misspell that)) to a "person I see all the time at the gym and say hi to but other than don't really talk to" box.

I mentioned before how she's one of my biggest regrets in life. I wish I had been able to receive her help back then. But I wasn't able to until my dad died. But I feel this is life giving me a second chance to not change the past, as that can't be done, but change how I react to the past and kind of bring it to a close.

And as I mentioned, I still like her and think highly of her (and her response kind of took me aback and wondering if I misread her all alone and whether she's just responding to my uneasiness... maybe she's turning away because she doesn't know what else to do?)

We just need to get on the same page. Get over the whole therapist client thing that's never going to happen again and move into the people who see each other at the gym thing.

Her inability to help me back then doesn't even reflect badly on her. She's just who she is and just because someone wasn't able to be what we needed or wanted them to be doesn't mean they failed or we failed. There's no such thing as failing to be something, just failing to fit into someone's preconceived notion of what someone or a situation should be.

So, you are now wanting more than to be able to greet her and receive an appropriate reply? It sounds like you want conversation?

I think, if it was me, I would want to leave it at being able to say hello, and no longer having the tension of the avoiding and mystery around that. I would not pursue anything more unless she makes the move in that direction.

Nope, still same exact thing I wrote in the first post. To treat each other like people we see all the time at the gym that don't know each closely.

What if she just doesn't like you? You seem to have a fairly high opinion of her, and at the beginning you felt you were responsible for the therapeutic relationship failing, but now you're slim, and different, and yet she still rejects you. But what if she broke off the relationship after the first few months because of her own deficiencies, which still exist? Why were you ignoring her deficiencies and saying they didn't exist, that you still wanted her to be your T? (I realize that is no longer the case, but you ARE still giving her that respect, which I am not sure she worked long enough with you to earn / still deserve.) I get the feeling she terminated you for her own personal reasons, like you reminded her of someone, or she just could not warm up to you. So while you are idolizing her, she is being reminded of an early failure, and your obvious success is probably rubbing salt in her wound. (I'm having a deja-vu here, wasn't there another thread with this theme, of someone being too smart for their own good, not realizing the other person thought they were being ingenuous?) So maybe YOU have "hand" as per Seinfeld, ie the upper hand in this r/s.

I agree with Echoes. If I were in a similar situation, I don't think I would push things beyond a "hello." I think you did a great job of diffusing the tension and moving past the awkward avoidance by approaching her first. And kudos for that! By saying "hi," you let her know that you're open to being acknowledged in public, so it is "okay" for to say hello to you if she chooses. It's kind of in her court now.

But for her, making the transition from seeing you as an "ex-client" to "person who sometimes makes small talk at the gym" may not feel appropriate. It would probably constitute be a "dual relationship" (which Ts usually avoid). As a professional, she will always see you as an ex-client and she may feel it is not in YOUR best interests for her to transition into "people who talk at the gym." Also, when she's at the gym, she may not want to feel "on" like she is when she is at work and, simply because you're an ex-client, she probably feels like she has to be "on" around you.

I know, for me, I sometimes see my students, and former students, out and about. I'm happy to acknoweldge them with a "hello" and I always try to be friendly (after all, I like my students!) but I don't want really want to stop and make small talk. Even though we're outside of the classroom, I still feel like I have to be "on" with them and, therefore, I can't relax or be myself. I feel this way even with the students I really like and care for. I'm happy to stop and chat with them on campus, in an "appropriate" setting, but when it's my time off, I'd rather not have to have those interactions. For instance, I have free access to the gym at the University but I choose to pay a membership fee at a gym 20 minutes away just so I can avoid running into my students (and former students). It is precisely so I don't have to encounter the kind of situation you are haaving with your T. It sounds uncomfortable for both of you, and I'm really sorry you're going through it! It doesn't seem like she's handling it in the best manner, which I'm sure makes it worse for you. But again, I think you did a great job with the polite "hello" (thereby ending the stand of). I hope you can find satisfaction in that, and I wish you the best in enjoying your gym classes without having to endure too much awkwardness!

I'll keep it at hellos for now then. Maybe even smile at her lol See, I don't know how much is her reacting to me or me reacting to her or we're just going back and forth based on misunderstandings or she really DOES hate me!

There's two people in this world who I know, or at least thought, couldn't stand to be in the same room as me. One of them is kind of jerky and I don't want to be in the same room as them either. OT was the other one. And at least in OT's case, doesn't make me feel too good knowing there's a person out there who can't stand to be in the same room as me.

But your post made a lot of sense! What's funny is that I was standing close to her with a friend (fairly small room) and this friend turns to me and says, "You know, you're right, we self-sabotage ourselves when it comes to food" and my first reaction was OMG I wasn't ready to just go emotionally naked so to speak with OT! Like hey those are MY emotions let ME share them lol Kind of took me by surprise that I kind of pulled back inside at having OT access to my feelings like that.

I'm sorry if my post sounded harsh. I just meant, if for some reason the chemistry wasn't there for her, you remind her of her mother-in-law - you know, just something weird she tried, but couldn't get herself past. It's not YOU, it's HER. Anyway, you sound terrifically happy and healthy now, you are my hero. 25 classes a week, wow. Seems like a lot, but our very recent ancestors worked that many hours in the fields, that's why we're fat.

Bottom line: I don't think an ex-therapist should hold such a grudge and make it so visible.

I know; i was meaning I'd keep it at sticking with hi for the next meeting as well

for a minute i thought, if you lost 85 lbs (congrats, by the way!) is there a possiblity that she doesnt recognize you? but then, the whole turning her head when you walk by each other thing tells me she definitely recognizes you.

give your CT's advice a shot and see how it goes.

Your shared gym experiences might take your relationship beyond Hello, but it might not and for many reasons. I think most of us are able to be sociable even to people we dislike, so I can't see that as a reason for her not acknowledging you. I mean, we could go many places trying to analyze that, including that she might be feeling shame for having turned you away, etc. So best not to speculate on what you don't know. What you do know is that she's willing to say Hello for now.

Said Good Morning again today... still not up to saying her name out loud. I went in and out of a room she was by herself in to leave my jacket inside a locker before a class in another room (we go from one room to another) and I'm not sure whether she responded or not. Got the hate vibe again ha.

What I REALLY want to do is ask her the one question I will probably never have answered, "why?"

She promised me a termination session when she referred me out and she never ended up giving it to me. She tried to gain my trust by promising I would decide when therapy ended, and then one day she just says she's referring me out and that's it, she's the therapist. I remember one time she wanted me to pick an emotion Halloween sticker and I picked a star, and she told me, wow, you really don't trust me. Hello? I didn't trust ANYbody.

I had this huge mentor who helped me out a lot last year, she taught a boot camp, and I idolized her (I tend to idolize people, and I'm ok with that, I still like them when they inevitably fall from the 20 food pedestal I put them in..... I'm a realist idolizer ). One day she just unfriended me on FB, said I used her for all she knew and then dropped her, and refused to speak to me again. So I used a boot camp instructor to learn all I could from her... isn't that what I was supposed to do? And the reason I quit the boot camp was to concentrate on triathlons. Then when I commented on mutual friends' walls she'd post about how I didn't get that they didn't like me and to leave her friends alone.

I saw her recently at a race and I walked right by her and I refused to make eye contact. I was not going to give her the satisfaction of making a face or showing her hatred. And I found out that avoiding someone is sometimes as powerful as making eye contact. Very empowering. I could feel the sizzling hate as I walked by her lol She hasn't commented on my comments to mutual friends' walls since.

But you know the one thought that came into my mind as I walked by her? "If this has been OT, I would have turned." And that thought surprised me, thought about it some more, and the reason I would have turned is that I don't care if OT hurts me, I'm willing to put myself out there at least one more time, whereas I'm done with BCI (boot camp instructor). Ironically, I trusted OT like I trusted no one else, she just never saw that.

And just to point out what BCI meant to me: I suffered from depression from the time I was ten to the time I was 31. I would walk around the P.E. track at school (too fat to run) and pray to G-d, "I will put up with anything you give me, just give me a sign that one day I will be happy, and that will be enough for me." At ten years of age. When I was 31 we went to a boot camp event and BCI hurt her foot and was limping back and we were walking back to the cars through a trail and she stumbled and I offered to support her and she said no (she's tough like that), and I was walking behind her, and I thought to myself, if I want someone like her to lean on someone like me, I have to at least for that moment be stronger than her, because you're not going to lean on someone weaker than you. Haven't been depressed since, and that was two years ago. BCI got rid of my depression. I still get sad and what I like to call appropriately devastated, but that's just normal based on what life throws at you. I experience feelings more fully now.

So that's the same BCI that threw me to the side of the road like I was yesterday's trash. I wouldn't turn to look at her, but I would turn to look at OT.

I wondered if this or some kind of closure was motivating your desire for more contact with OT. I can understand wanting it, and it is hard when it isn't offered.

Thanks for sharing about your BCI. I think her fb comment was really cruel. Why do you think she said that you didn't get that they didn't like you? I think it is very cruel to say, but if there is some truth to it, then I'd want to know more about it, to know myself better.

Well, my feeling is, if someone doesn't like you and doesn't want you commenting on their posts, they can unfriend you. So if they DON'T unfriend you, don't tell you to stop commenting on their posts, AND they comment on YOUR posts on your wall, then what? She's just being a child. She's saying that people that we both know that I still have as friends on FB and who I both comment on and have been commented on don't want anything to do with me. She also said I was hard to get rid of. She's been responding to comments of mine (on other people's walls) with the comment that I'm hard to get rid of a few times, so she has followed me around FB posting that so to speak. For my part I refuse to reply to her and have ignored and not responded to every single comment she has posted on FB. I will never speak an ill word about her. I may not recommend her, but I'm not going to slam her either.

And you know, regarding OT, there's what we want, and there is what is. I will not use the gym for anything relating to therapy. So that's why I've been spending the time trying to figure out what to do about OT. There has to be a middle line between acting like we both have cooties and rainbows and ponies.

You do have a way with words!

I've enjoyed watching you figured things out, plan your action, observe the response. You're doing it right, IMHO.

Oho! And I bet she really really really doesn't want to have to answer that, and that's why she snubs you.

I don't think she's snubbing you necessarily. You said hello and I think that's enough to break some of the perceived tension, but anything more appears to me to be a boundary issue. I would say let it go. I don't speak with anyone at my gym and I don't want to. Everyone is doing their own thing pretty much, and it isn't a social club. It doesn't mean i harbor any ill feelings about anyone there. I think you will find some people like you who enjoy talking to others at the gym, but people with good boundaries get a "feel" for others' boundaries, and their willingness to engage, and it seems OT doesn't want that. Don't read into more than is there. If she was uncomfortable with being in the same gym, she wouldn't be there. No need to assume she feels you have cooties. I think you are pushing it if you ask her the question "why". The time for that was when you were in the process of termination. It's not appropriate to bring that up at the gym. It seems like you are a friendly and outgoing person so it's probably natural for you to try to engage with other people but many people are not like that and it may feel uncomfortable to them. I was glad to see you break that tension and say hello, but anything further feels like you are pushing her boundaries. We take cues from others' behavior. I would just say don't push it.

BTW, notice how I said I wasn't going to use the gym for anything related to therapy. And she didn't terminate me. She told me to go to someone else and that I could come back later for a termination session which never came.

And... my gym is VERY social lol It's not out on the floor, it's the group classes. Most people chat up most people and it's rare and far between the people that keep to themselves. She talks to others now and then.

Now I just have to figure out the ratio of saying hello vs. not saying a word every time I see her

Well, the last two times she has gone to class she got there just as class started, so she may be well be avoiding me to a greater extent now, she was always early to class. Walked behind me on her way to her bike this morning.

No more hellos for the time being I guess.

Thanks for updating Debbie07. I am a pretty curious person, and it's fun to follow along.