EMDR was useless

I started EMDR today and I felt absolutely nothing. I couldn't give her emotions, I couldn't give her feelings. I couldn't do anything. This was my first EMDR session ever. I think she was getting upset with me. I kept saying " I don't know" She said I wasn't allowed to say "I don't know" anymore. I asked her "then what's another word for I feel nothing"? She says "you can't be that dead inside". Dead? That's exactly what I am.

I feel nothing. I have no emotions. I'm not happy, I'm not sad. People ask me "do you feel depressed". No I don't feel depressed. I feel nothing. She says "How can you just go blank, I can't go blank"? I say "It's adaptive". "are you angry"? "No... I'm nothing". I did start crying when we talked about my one brother. We talked about a safe spot and after about ten minutes we figured out it was with him. I don't really know why I was crying though. I didn't feel sad. I know that he's leaving for Afghanistan in a week, and I think that's why I was upset. But I could just feel tears, I didn't feel an emotion.

Is something blocking EMDR? I have umm... DID, we think. But I can't feel anything. Could it be my medications? I'm so confused... she seemed so upset I could come up with nothing.

I started EMDR at my last appointment with T. I felt nothing too. I don't know if this just won't work for me or what. I couldn't bring any pictures to my mind....nothing. I think I started making up stuff that I thought was happening. Not sure EMDR is for me. Hope it goes better for you.

I can't do emdr or anything like it either.

Good I'm glad I'm not the only one. Everything I said seemed to be wrong, and I tried so hard just to be honest, but I just gave in and made stuff up, because it was either that or I was going to dart out of that office, because I felt trapped.

Lydia, I do EMDR too and I also have thought it was useless and that nothing comes to mind. But my T said it works anyway. So, don't give up on it so quickly. She tells me that there is no right or wrong to EMDR. Also, my T never asks what am I FEELING during it, just "what am I thinking about?" I often say it's nothing to do with the target we're working on. It's something about my T or something else. She says that is okay and my brain will take me where it needs to go.

But I also think that I make up the images sometimes. I've told my T that too. Again, she says. "If you're thinking that, it's not made up. Your brain is taking you where it needs to go. There is no right or wrong" I don't get it but that's what she says. When I try veiry hard to concentrate on the incident or feeling, she says that's wrong, that I'm trying too hard, and to just let my thoughts come, like a leaf floating down the river.

I have seen some results from EMDR even though I don't understand it. I used to hate it but now I find it fascinating.

Lydia, has your T taken the training for EMDR? I'm concerned that she seemed upset because you didn't get results the first time. She could try a different target, maybe.

The treatment has no observable effect but it can't possibly go wrong? I'm sure EMDR is valuable, but your T's faith seems to go well beyond normal professional confidence.

Yea, she's done EMDR for years. She's the leading EMDR therapist in my town. Not that my town is huge and EMDR isn't either... but I hold onto hope that that means something good. I wouldn't let someone give me EMDR unless they were highly trained, that's not really something to mess around with.

On the other hand it wasn't like "O you're wrong".

It was stuff like "when I read this list, what animals do you think of?"

"Tiger"
"What is a tiger to you".
"A fighter, a predator"
"Okay lets steer away from calling yourself a predator".

I didn't know it was about myself!

Some T's have techniques that they use like a hammer, and they hammer everything. EMDR was just beginning around the first time I was in T, and the idea of it just didn't appeal to me. Nobody could really explain why it worked, even though the research since has demonstrated moderately successful results from it. Even so, that always means that there are some people (actually, a reasonable minority) for whom it won't work.

I didn't want to do some "technique" if no one knew or even had a reasonable guess as to why it might work, other than I'd experienced trauma and it supposedly fixed it. You don't have to continue doing it if you don't want to, by the way. It sounds weird to me, especially that conversation about you "as a predator."

I've interviewed T's who swear by their hammers such as writing and burning letters to your abuser, talking to an empty chair, beating on a pillow, pretending to be "reborn" through a fake birth canal, etc. I have stayed far, far away from these people. I'm not criticizing these techniques in the abstract, it's just that I just like to talk. To someone who understands trauma. That makes sense to me for how I heal.

Anne

Anne, my father used to always say "different strokes for different folks". I think that's a good philosophy! I am one of the most skeptical of all people, and I didn't like EMDR at first. I don't know if it's the technique itself that helps, or that it gets me to talk about what's important, but it doesn't matter. It's productive for me and that is what counts. I still like pure talk sessions like I had this week, and my T knows that. She's very flexible. If she weren't, I'd be out of there!

I find myself not responding well to how your therapist seems to be handling EMDR treatment. It sounds like your therapist is making judgements (ie "you can't be that dead inside" and "ok lets steer away from calling yourself a predator") as well as not making much sense, like you were wondering how you were calling yourself a predator, I don't see the link either. From how you describe your therapist I would think she's not very good.

My experience with EMDR for the first session or two was like "WTF? This is a waste of my time. I feel nothing happening." Then I had a session where I felt I had a huge breakthrough and felt better for a couple of days, I actually felt "normal" and not depressed. I had forgot what that was like. Wish the feeling stuck around. Another session seemed to not really do much, but I felt really weird after.

It doesn't make much sense to me why it would work, but that one session was better than 6 months of talk therapy for me. So I'm sticking with it and seeing if it gets me anywhere. Hopefully it does. Or maybe it was just a fluke. Who knows. I'm not arguing if it helps though...

Lydia, I don't understand why your T was asking you those questions about animals. It doesn't seem to fit in the EMDR protocol. I don't like her comments to you either. Like Gashly said. And, yes EMDR is weird, but it seems to work for many. I wish your T had been more understanding and less critical of you. Is she critical in general? Even if she's a specialist in EMDR it doesn't make her a good T.

To me, crying would be an emotion. It means you are sad, no? If you don't feel anything but you're not unhappy, why are you in therapy? I don't mean to criticize, I'm curious.

Also, you think your T was upset with you but it sounds like she was hoping the EMDR would do something to unblock you and allow you to feel, and she was probably frustrated because she cares, not that she was angry with you. So, perhaps she didn't mean to be critical of you though it seems that way.

I try not to complain too much about T specifically, because I'm a perfectionist and it will take me my whole life to find anyone good enough for me. As far as is she critical in general. Yes she is.

Crying is an action. Sometimes people cry because they are happy or angry. I was just crying. I thought maybe it was because I was sad over my brother leaving, but honestly I don't really know why. Maybe I just miss him, because he lives far away for the last couple years.

It's hard to explain to people what it feels like to feel nothing. You can laugh, but you don't feel happy. You can cry, but you don't feel sad. You have no emotion. You're dead inside. Blank. The part of your brain that reacts with emotion has been penetrated with Novocaine. It's numb.

Sometimes you'll feel just slight twinges of anger. But otherwise there is nothing. People ask "are you depressed?" "No". "Are you content?" "No". "Are you happy?" "No". "Are you anxious?" "no". I'm not anything. It's like I have no soul. I have lost all emotion. If I show an action to an emotion, I have no idea why it's happening. I may have a panic attack, nausea, sweating, crying, and have no clue whatsoever of what triggered it, nor do I feel the actual panic or anything beforehand. I have been able to tell when panic attacks are happening by the physical symptoms. Or starting, by the physical things. For the longest time I thought I was just sick. Till someone told me different. I may notice I haven't showered for a week. But I have no idea why. I may see that my apartment if more messier then usual, but I haven't the slightest clue why.

Doctors will ask me, "are your anxiety meds working". I don't know, I guess so. I have anxiety, but I can't feel it. It effects my life in other ways, like fogging my capacity to think clearly, taking away my concentration. I don't feel anxiety like other people feel anxiety. It makes it extremely hard to tackle symptoms when you feel nothing. I don't notice depression till I'm literally not getting out of bed, ever.

People say "keep on top of things, what are your warning signs". They're extremely subtle and half the time I miss them. People get upset because I can be so blunt at times. But I can only fake emotions for so long, without messing up. Sometimes I wish the whole world was like me. Without emotions. Everyone gets so intertwined. That's why I don't get very close to people, because people let the emotions they deal with get in the way. Since I don't have emotions, they never get in the way. I may be dead, but I also have no drama, because I get upset over very little. I actually don't wish this on anyone. It's not as fun as it sounds.

((((((((((Lydia)))))))))))

It doesn't sound fun at all!! It sounds awful!!! Do you have Asperger's or something on that spectrum? From my little understanding I thought those kinds of disorders are characterized by not showing emotions.

If your T is so critical, have you thought of finding a different one?

Wow! That's ... unusual. Your body feels emotions but your mind doesn't.

My T was always saying "Listen to your body". Does your T say that?

I read an article about this. We do get numb. Inured, if you will. And yes, one T is as good as another, because no one will ever be good enough. I will try to find the reference. I remembered it when you first posted this.

Non sequitur!

When I'm numbed out I'm usually overwhelmed. Stuff will still leak through at times though.

Mais non, monsieur! It's re what Lydia said in response to rainbow at the beginning of her post. I can't see see numbers. Just agreein'. I like to do that when I see somebody else say my thoughts!

Lydia, I have done EMDR just a few times but never thought of it as a way to evoke feelings. My T said it was a way to process memories, especially stuck ones due to trauma. You come as you are to therapy and if you cannot talk about feelings that day, that's how it is for any therapy you might try, not just the EMDR. Your T can try to help you with that, but what your T did does not sound helpful. My T had me preview what we would discuss in EMDR before we did EMDR each time. Maybe he was assessing if it was suitable that day--I don't know. I never felt pressured to produce feelings on command like a dog performing for a treat. Yuck.

The first time I did EMDR my T just gave me the buzzers to hold and "interviewed" me while I felt them buzz soothingly--left, right, left, right. It's very gentle. We just had a normal conversation--no pressure. Later, we did a more structured EMDR protocol but there was never an emphasis on feelings. If anything, there was an emphasis on thoughts. I had to identify a negative cognition associated with whatever memory we would work on that day, and also a positive cognition about myself. I think your T does EMDR really differently from mine...

It sounds to me like your T is really pressuring you. It sounds like you do have feelings. Your tears show that. You sound quite dismissive of your crying, "crying is an action." I think your tears are a good sign that your feelings do exist and are accessible. Maybe you are sad over your brother's impending departure or maybe something else. That sounds like a great direction in therapy and you don't need EMDR to take that direction. I think your T needs to go slower and help your feelings come out. I think her pressuring you will drive the feelings deeper inside because it will affect the safe atmosphere of therapy. I also think it's awful that she said "you can't be dead inside." I think you need a really empathetic therapist to help you learn to find your feelings deep inside. I don't think you need special "techniques". JMO.

Are you doing EMDR for trauma, Lydia? If your T is a trauma expert, she will know other approaches besides EMDR. Maybe right now another approach is a better fit. Or if your goal is to learn to find your feelings, you may not need a trauma-based technique right now. I am reminded of a book Mindsight on therapy that I am reading right now. Some of what you've said reminds me of a couple of the cllients described in that book. You might find it interesting...

Maybe. Some people take SSRIs for anxiety and experience a side effect of affective flattening, which makes it harder for them to feel. And benzos are depressants. You might want to share with your prescriber your concerns because they might be a side effect of the meds. I also think you should ask your T about her being upset. She shouldn't be upset. Maybe she can explain what she was feeling and if she was upset, she will be made aware of that so she can correct that in the future.

Best of luck.

No I don't. I think Aspergers are bad at reading emotions. But I could be wrong. I think they actually overly show emotions though. Like they get really overwhelmed easily... angry, they're very affectionate. But who knows... I'm not incredibly educated on the subject.
I suppose technically I have them, I just don't feel them. Like crying can mean a lot of different emotions right? You can cry because your angry, happy, sad. When I cried over my brother I had no idea why. Was I sad? Was I scared? Was I happy? I can sometimes tell whether it's a negative or positive emotion. Like I could tell I was crying because of a negative emotion, not a positive one, but I can't identify or feel the emotion. I have also taught myself to respond to things the way people wish me to. Someone gives me a present... okay act happy. But I don't feel happy. Someone tells me a sad story... okay act sad. Pretty much the only true emotion I can feel at all is anger. And even that is a rarity. It's completely draining and very daunting to constantly give people the emotions I don't have.

It's not that I'm sociopathic. Because like I said, I technically have them, I am just so seperated from them that it also seems like they do not exist. Like I do get anxious in social situations. I just don't notice until my body tells me so.

Complete hypothesis, but I think it part it has to do with my splitting personalities. I think that only certain parts can feel emotion, as they've been trained to take on everything the rest of us can't handle. And that includes emotions. So most of us are just left dead.

Lydia, I identify with part of what you talk about -- I too have had 'panic attacks' that have felt purely physical to me, I don't feel at all anxious, scared, or nervous, but my body does. It's always ready to tip over into fight or flight mode, and can seemingly be triggered by the smallest thing or even nothing at all that I can figure. It's awful to suddenly feel nauseous or dizzy, have a hot/cold sweat etc and not to know whether there's actually something wrong with you or if it's the anxiety again. I have experienced feeling somewhat numb, too, mostly as a side effect of the medication I think, but not to the extent you describe.

OK, Hankstaer, you've convinced me. The conclusion does follow from the premise. All useless things are equally useless.

I see now that what I object to is your premise, that all Ts are useless.

Dear Lydia,

Sorry, I answered your other post without seeing this one first..I hope I'm not totally negating one with the other. My UNprofessional opinion is that you are probably slightly over-medicated. My pdoc worked with my T when I was going through EMDR the first time and actually lightened up on the anti-depressants because they wanted me to "feel" more and get the most out of the treatments. They watched me fairly closely...but it was important to be able to feel what was going on and not numb out. I think you need to talk to your T and your pdoc about how you are feeling or not feeling. If I remember, they may have increased my anxiety meds a bit but lowered the anti-depressants...

Also, I too am slightly concerned about her need for a response from you. My T actually used scripts in order to make sure that there was no real influence from him on me in terms of my responses. In fact, the scripts actually used to make me upset because I knew they weren't his "voice" and would tend to pull me out of my memory to make sure I was safe. They were always non-judgemental and just sort of a 'go with it', 'go with the thoughts' kinds of messages. Don't have any idea where the 'how can you be dead' ideas could be coming from. Anyway, hopefully, you will both relax into the process and come into some healing in the near future.

I also wish your brother only the best in his mission..

Take care,

WB

Honestly, I couldn't do EMDR because I would become "stuck" and then be in a fog for days. But maybe just try it a couple more times and if its not doing anything for you, then don't use it. But..its worth another shot. I did 5 sessions of EMDR because my T and I discovered that it was not for me.