Shame and feeling inferior to T

I've just realised - I have no recollection of how much make-up my T uses.

I guess cosmetics just don't matter to me.

I also have no idea if my T uses makeup. I'm sure it's not anything plastered on - I might notice that but otherwise...

Like Sunrise, it struck me that you called it presentable. I don't like to think people consider me (or other women) unpresentable if we're not wearing makeup.

I'm also aware that people, especially women, are sometimes treated better if we conform to popular standards of attractiveness, which involve wearing makeup and the right clothes. It upsets me sometimes since some people's bodies aren't capable of conforming to those standards much, whether we dress up and wear makeup or not.

I view it differently since exercising and eating are good for my physical health and makeup is somewhere between neutral to bad for my health. Bad since they say some makeup has carcinogens and since the time and money it takes to do the makeup is time and money taken from other things that could be good for my physical or mental health. Also it could be bad for my mental health when I worry about environmental effects of it. But mostly I think makeup and clothes are neutral for my health. Sometimes it leaves me feeling good about myself and sometimes it leaves me feeling bad about myself.

In a thread of mine, what you were saying about this topic implied to me that you thought it would be good for me wear makeup. I don't think you said it that directly and maybe you didn't mean it that way, but I don't think it's too far fetched to say that what you wrote would imply you thought it was a good idea. Of course it is up to me how I take what you say, but I thought you might want to know it had come across that way. (I don't remember the exact wording and I don't think it is important enough to go look for it, but it was a thread about when my therapist had suggested I watch a tv show about how to look like a model.)

I'm sorry that happens to you. It sounds like you are stuck between getting more respect from colleagues and students for wearing makeup but also negative stereotypes from new acquaintances for wearing it. That is probably similar to me being stuck between trying to conform a little bit more to accepted standards of beauty with makeup, even though my body cannot really do so, versus not trying to conform to those standards, which I'm aware sometimes means people (especially new acquaintances) treat me less respectfully. I hope society is becoming more accepting of variations in appearance, skin appearance, etc., so it will be easier for everyone.

Wow. I know how you feel in my own context. I was never taught how to do make up. I wasn't taught how to do a lot of things. And I have this desire to talk to T about it, but it feels embarrassing that there's this list of "basic things to do" that I don't know how to? Well, I talked to T about it in a general way a few weeks ago, about feeling like I don't do things "the right way" or the way other people do it. And it makes me feel inferior. And she told me she "knows people who don't know how to wipe their butt, seriously". But I still haven't had the guts to really come out with all the things on my mind where I feel clueless.

So in short, I'm saying, I get it in my own way

I don't wear much makeup but I have been reading and thinking about this thread. Something resonates with me and I think it is what makeup symbolizes. Makeup symbolizes femininity and I have never felt that femininity is a natural part of me. I never was into girly things, but I honestly don't know if that is something real about me, or was something I developed as a way to be very separate from my mother. If I accepted the feminine part of me, then that made me more like, rather than less like, my mother.

Anyway, does anyone else think makeup my be symbolic and related to femininity and/or mothers?

Everything is symbolic of something.

Makeup as rebellion has been a teenage staple for fifty years - for as long as teenagers have existed, in fact.

Echoes, I've been thinking about this thread too, and what make-up symbolizes to me. I wear minimal make-up and at first it was because I didn't know how to do it. Then, I had friends show me, and I feel comfortable applying makeup now (have even taught my Mom some tricks). I still wear a very minimal amount though.

For me, it's not an issue of femininity and/or mothers, but I can easily see how it could be. If your mother wore lots of makeup or indicated that women are supposed to wear makeup, then trying to distance yourself from that could translate to not wearing makeup.

For me, I think wearing minimal makeup is an attempt to be more authentic. I live behind so many masks in my personality and behaviors, that I try to at least keep my appearance "un-masked" by wearing minimal make-up (very light foundation, lip gloss, light mascara). I hide behind my words, my body language, my actions, presenting the "face" that I think others want to see. But, it is not what I want to do, I want to show people the real me, so the minimal makeup is an attempt to show the real me without possibly offending others with showing my real personality or real thoughts.

I've thought about this a bit more.

Early on, I did feel inferior to T. She was so powerful and in control! I had serious issues with that. I did not trust power, and I wanted to be the one in control.

But gradually I learned to live with, work with and love someone more powerful than myself, and to accept her rules without resentment or rebellion.

Power and control are no longer such important parts of my self-worth.

This is not a place I ever wanted to get to! The solution, as I thought then, was to become so powerful and controlling that T would bow down before my superiority.

Thanks for your response and for bringing my attention to some things.

You're right; presentable was the wrong choice of words. I think what I meant to say was something like "put together"- to imply not only (or even necessarily) wearing make-up, but to indicate somethign to the effect of "I put effort into my appearance today" or "I tried to look put together before I left the house."

Again, I probably should have been more careful in how I phrased things. When I was writing that, I was thinking not only of make-up but of my "beauty routines," some of which are good for me: face masks and creams, taking care of my cuticiles before painting my nails, pummas stone for my feet, make-up that has SPF, etc.

I knew that didn't sound like something I would ever think or say, so I went back and actually found my post. It don't say anything like that; in fact, even though it's a response to your thread, it's an anecdote about my own experience. I may be guilty of talking too much about my experience and not being supportive/heplful enough in response to your situation, but it definitely does not say anything about encouraging you to wear make-up.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...21#post1881521

Thanks. I appreciate that. I hope that, too!