Manipulation in therapy

There is a level of manipulation my T uses. He uses the strength and trust in our relationship to invoke change. He often manipulates my negative thoughts or cognitive distortions into the correct way of thinking by leading me through a series of questions.

For the most part, I don't care what he's doing, as long as it works.

One manipulation that does annoy me is when he exaggerates some aspect of what I've said. I assume it's to get me to disagree with him and point out the choice that I've made. Instead it makes me want to take it even further just to be obnoxious.

Me: I hate all of this personalized attention at school. Small schools are annoying.

T: And that was the only school you could go to for your degree. You had to go there?

(I assume this is where I am supposed to say OH NOES! I wanted to go here because blah blah blah.) Instead, I start going down this path....

Me: (eyeroll) Yes, because it is the only college on the planet. Maybe I should step out in front of a train since I obviously have no options. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, you may have saved me many useless years of life.

(For the record, I usually just answer the question with "No.")

Yes, this is what I was referring to also. If the relationship is so strong that it can be used to help one change, then more power to it. I'm in therapy because I want to change, so this is helpful to me. Plus, it feels good (to me) to have the strong and close relationship. So, there is no down side for me. If my T wasn't also very honest, open, and trustworthy, though, I can see that problems might arise.

I just remembered a brief conversation T and I had where he alluded to manipulation. I can't for the life of me remember how we got there though.

Basically, he was talking about he completely realizes what he could say or do to set me off, but he chooses not to do that. That would be abusive.

It made me realize how he does really calculate exactly what he says and when he says it. It also made me appreciate that he knows me well enough to be able to predict what could really be harmful for me and he deliberately steers me away from those topics if he perceives that "today is not the day to go there".

I've wondered about this, too. I think that there is some degree of manipulation in everything that human beings say to eachother, to some degree. I mean, we say everything for a reason, right? It's all said with an intended effect whether we consciously think about it or not.

I've wondered about it *more* in therapy, though. It's bothered me some. But I just try to think about it as a more deliberate way of my T trying to help me. I mean, if I was as much of a genius as my T is about human beings and their problems, and communication, I'd be tempted to use it on people to help them, too.

The phrase, "you have to get up PRETTY EARLY IN THE MORNING to pull one over on me!" has popped up in my life several times recently, once from my cab driver (ie not all T). Many of us have been so horrendously manipulated by family members etc, for such insanely LONG periods of time, I mean like even decades - I think we are not your usual cases showing up in therapy. Fine, call us borderline, whatever. The point is, T IS going to have to get up pretty early in the morning to come up with a manipulation we haven't seen before, or one we can't sniff out. We are excellent BS-detecters.

Thanks for this!

Yes, H, thanks for this. I do wonder if my excellent BS detector was one of my primary problems with my failed therapy with my nutter T. In retrospect, there were many instances of sniffing out perceived (or real?) manipulations. Now, looking back on it,I wonder if T was "testing" or manipulating me, or just a wing walker of some sort. Perhaps I will never know. Here's a taste of some of the silliness:

*T was habitually late....said it was a "way to determine" how "patients" handled being disappointed by therapist...Being late was a "litmus test."

*PHONE GAMES: T habitually called me from home phone on Saturday morning, but insisted that I leave a return message on office phone ONLY not call back at the number that I could see on the cell phone! How ridiculous! You can call me at any hour but I can't return the call directly? Then, according to my reaction, T said that "yielded" valuable information. T also set cell phone alarm (I know because I have the same model and heard the same factory tones) to go off during our session, multiple times;

*I've already discussed the unbuttoned to navel shirt, hairy chest day.

*T placed objects of art in office upside down and seemed exquisitely interested in my reaction (I thought this was stupid).

*T left things on computer screen in view..odd stuff like conspiracy theory kinds of things -- things about poisons, EMF waves, alien abduction, and the like. It was hard not to laugh!

*T shifted times of appointments repeatedly, describing the "other patients" and how much they needed my appointment time and then asked, "what feelings does this bring up for you." gee...can we begin with annoyance?

Were these manipulations? Probably, at least some. Were they therapeutic? God no! And in large measure they were the reasons that at the suggestion of some PC poster out there...., I am now searching for a life coach.

Can I post about my life coaching on PC...or do I need to begin a new forum...Life Coaching?

I know for a fact that my T uses manipulation but he thinks he's being subtle and that I'm not aware of it! I do call him on it frequently, we both laugh, and I usually end up doing what I should anyway. He's never pushy or demanding - usually lets me talk and just gently leads me in the right direction. In all the years I've been seeing him he has never once said "I think you should do XYZ" So, no, I don't feel manipulated.

LOL, may I imagine that that wasn't the exquisite reaction he was looking for hahahaha good for you.

and good for you, for dumping that character (I had a stronger, shorter word in mind). Let me guess, he wore a beard too.

It beats me how some people get licensed. I think the licensing boards ought to have undercover auditors sign up with therapists now and then just to conduct a little, pardon the expression, sanity check.

hey now there's a job I could qualify for!!

Awesome idea!

I have considered doing online reviews and offering a few of those choice moments....

but your idea is a much better one!

I am bringing my T roses and Champagne tomorrow. I do not appreciate him enough!

WHY DON'T THEY HAVE A DANG LOL BUTTON?!?!? I have to quote the things just to say LOL. And then it's going to say I don't have enough characters .

So, lost in termination, are there times when your t is authentic? Or have you had a t who is authentic? Is it possible for them to be authentic and still be doing therapy?

I don't think my BS meter is all that good. So if my t gives me inauthentic manipulation sometimes, even though he's well intentioned, it's hard to believe he means much by what he says. I can't tell exactly when he is and when he isn't being manipulative, I just can tell he is sometimes.

T will be THRILLED he got an LOL! I keep telling him to register, but he says he's afraid he'll become a PC addict like me cos y'all are so great.

Learning1, are you my T? LOL! We have had this discussion the past few sessions due to a recent rupture.

Yes, I DO believe that my T is mostly authentic in his responses and that is why I have stayed in therapy with him for over two years. When his response feels manipulative (and I am not necessarily saying that in a bad way even though I recognize it mostly has a negative connotation), I always ask him about it. I am always curious why?

No specific example springs to mind at present.

Thanks MCL! This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.

I think back on these examples, and I'm astonished.
How could someone who plays these kinds of games LIVE WITH THEMSELF?

Unless....this T really was NUTS!

Cant' Explain.

What do you make of all this?

This is the T who told me once...my clinical supervisor told me, during my training, it's "important to use yourself with your patients."

yick!!!

Here's an example from Chopin:

Here Chopin's T is justifying her email ban by tricking Chopin into admitting that Chopin doesn't like being on call. You might say this is a legitimate argument. But in my paranoid mood, I would regard this as manipulative and resist.

I would anticipate where T is going and block the argument at the source, saying, "I don't like being on call, but I have a responsibility for customer support and I accept it as part of the job."