[rainbow8]

I set myself up for disappointment, of course. My T is NOT who I want her to be. Duh!! I even told her that. I was so looking forward to seeing her and what do I get? Just plain ol' T! We both laughed but my heart is hurting. She said I could stay in my misery of jealousy over her trip or I could do something in my own life to be happier. I'm going on a minitrip but worrying about it. She wants me to have a good time. She also said I COULD go to Europe too. I make choices in my life. We could work on my fear of flying.

I felt SO frustrated. I told her therapy for me is repeat, repeat, repeat. She says she sees progress. I still see that I want HER; she says she wants to be my GUIDE and wants me to want ME, not HER.

She said she's back now, so why focus on how I was. She understands that I was angry and jealous and wanted to be with her.

She sat next to me when I asked, and held my hand. But she's my T, not any of those other people I want. Maybe I AM progressing because I realize that more and more. It hurts badly. She says we're working on it--the hurts the young parts feel.

She said she would bring back the book, One Child, and I could read passages to her, or she could read the ones I select. I told her I wanted her to be like Torey but she couldn't be, so she said it would be good to discuss then.

I feel like jazzy. Therapy is SO frustrating, and hurts a lot when you want more from your T but you know it's not what you need. I make her out to be more than she is. Sometimes she lives up to that image, and sometimes not.

She said she was back, at the end of the session. She repeated it, for some reason. I said "so what? I don't care." She said it was all right to feel angry with her.

I know the session was what I need, not what I want. But I feel stuck, like I don't want to or can't do what I need. I feel depressed and disappointed, but this is life. It's my pattern that I have to stop. What if I can't change?

[Wren_]

I think ... you have to actually want to change first; want it enough to fight for it even if it means getting way outside your comfort zone and even out of the comfort of the uncomfortable zone? I'm thinking of this for me as well because change is HARD

maybe a lot of the work now is getting to where you are ready to risk facing that change?

Torey left after only a short time; your T has stuck around ... to me, I think i'd prefer your T

[Chopin99]

tigergirl's right rainbow; nothing changed for me until I wanted the change. Reflect on what it is you really want. I know for me, the obsession with T herself is a distraction. I love T dearly and would love for her to be my surrogate mom, but that is not her role. She mothers me in therapy, but she can't outside.

And she can't for good reason. I looked at the blog post doogie posted earlier and came across another post that resonated with me: http://whatashrinkthinks.com/2011/09...t-you-pay-for/

The money aspect has bothered me, but this T explains this beautifully. I know that even though I get paid to work with my IDD clients, I love them dearly. If I had an "equal" relationship with T, I don't know that I'd really like her. She's forgetful. She's weird sometimes. She is an admitted extreme control freak; so much so that tiny elements show through in my therapy.

However, my therapy is working for me, so she is perfect as my T. She's not a perfect T, but just what I needed.

[SpiritRunner]

yes, you've got to both WANT the change AND believe it can and will happen. that's the way it has worked for me. I wanted it, yes, but didn't believe and so I sort of managed to keep sabotaging myself out of it or keep myself in the pattern that seemed safe (though it wasn't) because of it's familiarity. but until I actually believed I could change my thinking/behavior and create a new pattern, I couldn't get it to happen .... now, I am still me but I know and believe I can live outside, beyond, above the old pattern.
maybe, rainbow, you are staying in your pattern because it seems so familiar and therefore safe to you .... and you kind of keep yourself there because you're not quite wanting OR believing it could be different if let it be? maybe you sort of sabotage yourself in a way?
you do have choices! you can choose a NEW pattern ..... not that you won't still feel or think some of the same things, but you can redirect that in a different direction and make different choices, bit by bit, than you have.
maybe you need to do something to kind of wake yourself up, shake yourself up?
I mean this all gently, so hope I haven't been hurtful.

Oh, and I would take your T over Torey too - she had/has a huge heart, but I think sometimes she really did step outside of boundaries it would have been best she not step outside (although some of her cases were extraordinary and probably did need extraordinary, unconventional measures). Your T has indeed stuck with you and given you the message you are worth that.

[WikidPissah]

ugh...I can feel your frustration. Let me tell you, as someone who simply cannot attach to their T I often get jealous at how much you love yours. You and your T are so close. The hand-holding...I mean sometimes I think "ick I would never like that"...but the truth is deep inside I long for that kind of closeness.

I think you are so strong to bring this stuff to the surface, and you fight so fiercely and so brilliantly. You are going to make it Rainbow...I am sure of it.

[granite1]

hey rain i'm glad she is back and you see you are ok and did fine when she was gone.

in your post you talk a lot about how T wasn't what you want.how hur you were by that.how disapointed.you say you understand that she can't be what you want.

i was just wondering because you never say ,but what do you want?do you know?do you know what it would look like? feel like?

[sittingatwatersedge]

(((((((((((((((((( rainbow ))))))))))))))))))) give yourself some time to process your session. You can't tell, on her first day back, how it's going to go. I think you are progressing

[Perna]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

What if I can't change?

That does not sound depressed or disappointed, that sounds worried, scheming, dreaming, anxious

If you don't like something change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it. ~Mary Engelbreit

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Victor Frankl

Change always comes bearing gifts. ~Price Pritchett

Just because everything is different doesn't mean anything has changed. ~Irene Peter

Stubborness does have its helpful features. You always know what you are going to be thinking tomorrow. ~Glen Beaman

If nothing ever changed, there'd be no butterflies. ~Author Unknown

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

She said she's back now, so why focus on how I was. She understands that I was angry and jealous and wanted to be with her.

You need to work through this. I think that she needs to jump into this with you so that you 2 can explore it and understand it. If she wants to avoid it, it isn't going to go away.

[PreacherHeckler]

Originally Posted by Sannah

You need to work through this. I think that she needs to jump into this with you so that you 2 can explore it and understand it. If she wants to avoid it, it isn't going to go away.

I completely agree with that, Sannah. I had to work through a lot of anger and jealousy when my therapist went on family vacations and all kinds of other family events. The only way to change it is by understanding it and then making choices about how to get some of the underlying emotional needs met in real life relationships, because there's more to it than just being envious about not having the opportunity to go on trips to Europe or wherever. There's an underlying emotional component to it somewhere -- an emotional need that isn't being met in real life relationships, and that's what needs to be discovered and worked through.

[rainbow8]

Thank you all for the hugs. Somehow I thought I was going to get "what did you expect" replies, like I was silly for focusing on my T so much when she was gone. The thoughtful responses lift my spirits and make me hopeful. Otherwise, I think there's no use. I won't ever be able to change and I will just have to quit therapy and cope with life as is. Maybe that's NOT such a bad option.

Originally Posted by tigergirl

I think ... you have to actually want to change first; want it enough to fight for it even if it means getting way outside your comfort zone and even out of the comfort of the uncomfortable zone? I'm thinking of this for me as well because change is HARD

maybe a lot of the work now is getting to where you are ready to risk facing that change?

Torey left after only a short time; your T has stuck around ... to me, I think i'd prefer your T

Thanks, tigergirl. The change for me would be NOT making my T so important, and maybe taking some risks to do that. Or, maybe a leap of faith that I CAN do that. I'm making small changes, but not enough.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

tigergirl's right rainbow; nothing changed for me until I wanted the change. Reflect on what it is you really want. I know for me, the obsession with T herself is a distraction. I love T dearly and would love for her to be my surrogate mom, but that is not her role. She mothers me in therapy, but she can't outside.

And she can't for good reason. I looked at the blog post doogie posted earlier and came across another post that resonated with me: http://whatashrinkthinks.com/2011/09...t-you-pay-for/

chopin, that post you linked to was excellent! Thanks very much. My problem is that I want and don't want to change. Speaking about wanting my T to be so important, too important, NOT about about trips right now. So I don't want to change that because parts of me are desperate for that kind of attachment. I feel like I don't have choices, like I make bad decisions when I've ever had a choice.

Originally Posted by SpiritRunner

yes, you've got to both WANT the change AND believe it can and will happen. that's the way it has worked for me. I wanted it, yes, but didn't believe and so I sort of managed to keep sabotaging myself out of it or keep myself in the pattern that seemed safe (though it wasn't) because of it's familiarity. but until I actually believed I could change my thinking/behavior and create a new pattern, I couldn't get it to happen .... now, I am still me but I know and believe I can live outside, beyond, above the old pattern.
maybe, rainbow, you are staying in your pattern because it seems so familiar and therefore safe to you .... and you kind of keep yourself there because you're not quite wanting OR believing it could be different if let it be? maybe you sort of sabotage yourself in a way?
you do have choices! you can choose a NEW pattern ..... not that you won't still feel or think some of the same things, but you can redirect that in a different direction and make different choices, bit by bit, than you have.
maybe you need to do something to kind of wake yourself up, shake yourself up?
I mean this all gently, so hope I haven't been hurtful.

Your T has indeed stuck with you and given you the message you are worth that.

thanks, SpiritRunner. No, you haven't been hurtful at all. I feel stuck because I want to work on my issues in therapy without making her so important to me. That seems impossible, though. I don't know how to shake myself up. I thought I did okay without my T but I didn't. I don't know what I want.

Originally Posted by WikidPissah

ugh...I can feel your frustration. Let me tell you, as someone who simply cannot attach to their T I often get jealous at how much you love yours. You and your T are so close. The hand-holding...I mean sometimes I think "ick I would never like that"...but the truth is deep inside I long for that kind of closeness.

I think you are so strong to bring this stuff to the surface, and you fight so fiercely and so brilliantly. You are going to make it Rainbow...I am sure of it.

wiki, thank you. I think we all long for "that kind of closeness" and I hope you get it in your life too. I appeciate your hopefulness very much. I don't think of myself as a fighter. I feel stuck with my stupid "pattern" but maybe I'm not seeing myself as I really am.

Originally Posted by granite1

hey rain i'm glad she is back and you see you are ok and did fine when she was gone.

i was just wondering because you never say ,but what do you want?do you know?do you know what it would look like? feel like?

granite, what great questions. Off the top of my head, I'd say I want to be appreciated and loved. But I have to think more about it. I know I want to feel safe and I only feel safe with my T and a couple of other people. I want to feel happy and positive. I want to see beautiful scenery for real, not just in pictures. I want to count, not to be invisible. I want what other people have, but not really. I want to be happy with what I have, and not compare myself to others all of the time. I don't want to be jealous of other people. I want to be included, not left out. I want my life to have meaning. But, as far as what I want from my T, that's probably transference. I want her to love me like a sister or a daughter, and always be there for me. I want to be important to her. I want to be in love with her. I selfishly want....and that's pathetic.

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

(((((((((((((((((( rainbow ))))))))))))))))))) give yourself some time to process your session. You can't tell, on her first day back, how it's going to go. I think you are progressing

Thank you for all the hugs, SAWE!! You really think I'm progressing. Tell that to my H. He thinks I'm still the same.

Sannah, thank you. I know what you meant, but my T didn't want me to focus on HER. We will get to it in EMDR.

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

I completely agree with that, Sannah. I had to work through a lot of anger and jealousy when my therapist went on family vacations and all kinds of other family events. The only way to change it is by understanding it and then making choices about how to get some of the underlying emotional needs met in real life relationships, because there's more to it than just being envious about not having the opportunity to go on trips to Europe or wherever. There's an underlying emotional component to it somewhere -- an emotional need that isn't being met in real life relationships, and that's what needs to be discovered and worked through.

I agree, PH. It's about feeling that I do NOT have choices. My life kind of runs on autopilot. I've been an observer, but my H would probably say I get whatever I want. He says if I quit therapy, we'd have the money to travel. I said "maybe I will" but I have this child stuff to work on so I can't. I didn't tell him that part because he doesn't believe me. I want what others have. I have to learn to be happy with what I do have. It's SO hard. Thank you for your input. It's helpful.

[PreacherHeckler]

Rainbow, wanting what others have may not necessarily be what you really want. I'm not so sure you'd be any happier if you went on trips, because you seem to be searching for an emotional connection that you aren't getting in any relationship except the one with your therapist. I really think there's more to it than just being envious and not being happy with what you have materially.

[rainbow8]

There's not one answer, PH. Apparently the baby and child parts are searching for a connection they didn't get at the time they should have, and a T comes closest to providing that kind of unconditional love, safety and connection. It's not a question of being unloved, but of maybe feeling unloved.

I do feel good after I've been to a scenic place, though. I'm trying to mindful and enjoy nature, like today my grandson and I enjoyed the park. The tall trees: brown bark, green leaves, and blue sky were especially pretty so I felt good.

[CantExplain]

Choices...

Yes, one of the things I've learned in therapy is that I have more choices than I thought. Feeling "trapped" is partly in the mind.

[Sannah]

Rainbow, what are you thankful for in your life?

[rainbow_rose]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Rainbow, what are you thankful for in your life?

sometimes, being thankful for what you do have can open you mind towards those things that you want. that's how's it has happened with me. i started a gratitude journal last year. sometimes when i get stuck in thoughts about what i don't have, i write down things in my life that i am thankful for and puts a new perspective on those thoughts.

my therapist can't be some of the things i want her to be, but what she is, is pretty darn awesome. so I choose to be in the moments of awesome with her now - putting my focus there and i'm getting so much more out of my sessions when I do that. i know there will be a time to terminate, but i have to believe by accepting what she is able to offer me now with prepare me to be able to handle it.

don't know if this makes sense or even is on topic, but ... that's my thinking at the moment.

don't give up on the amazing person that is you, rainbow.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Choices...

Yes, one of the things I've learned in therapy is that I have more choices than I thought. Feeling "trapped" is partly in the mind.

This is a lesson T has beat into my head.

[Hope-Full]

Therapy is SO frustrating, and hurts a lot when you want more from your T but you know it's not what you need.

You nailed it Rainbow... so freaking true. I think, at least for me, that it's the young child in me that wants more from T than is appropriate for T to give. The adult me knows that T can't logically be my mom/sister/aunt and still be the best T she can be for me. The young me doesn't really care about that logic and knowledge, and just wants T to be there for me the way she is with her own family. Never gonna happen, but that doesn't mean that I can't wish for it from time to time.

I've also noticed that it is in times of struggle that the young me gets louder. It sounds like, at least from what your T noted about you making progress, that she sees the progress you've made, and I know you do to, when you aren't in the negative space, where it sounds like the young parts of you get louder, too. Wish I had volume control in my brain and heart... would definitely make this easier!

(((rainbow)))

[rainbow8]

Can'tExplain: thanks for that thought.

Sannah: Thank you! Other than my T I assume you mean! I am thankful for my H, my kids, my grandchildren, my friends, my religious community, this forum, financial security, relatively good health, bodies of water, and the invention of books and authors who write them. I am also thankful that I had parents who loved me and did not abuse me. I never realized how fortunate I was, and how many wonderful memories I have of the family vacations we went on, the games we used to play together, and the "normality" of my family. Sure, something went wrong but the overall feeling in my family was positive. Now I need to read what I just wrote every day and count my blessings so I can change my negative thinking.

rainbow_rose: Thanks for the compliment and for your thoughts. You're pretty special yourself. I have to copy what I wrote above into a gratitude journal. I do appreciate my T for what she has to offer me. I need help with so many issues. Sigh. Her trip threw me off. Writing that gets me SO stirred up and angry again! Jealous too. I know I'm not done talking about those feelings.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Hope-Full

You nailed it Rainbow... so freaking true. I think, at least for me, that it's the young child in me that wants more from T than is appropriate for T to give. The adult me knows that T can't logically be my mom/sister/aunt and still be the best T she can be for me. The young me doesn't really care about that logic and knowledge, and just wants T to be there for me the way she is with her own family. Never gonna happen, but that doesn't mean that I can't wish for it from time to time.

I've also noticed that it is in times of struggle that the young me gets louder. It sounds like, at least from what your T noted about you making progress, that she sees the progress you've made, and I know you do to, when you aren't in the negative space, where it sounds like the young parts of you get louder, too. Wish I had volume control in my brain and heart... would definitely make this easier!

(((rainbow)))

Hope-Full: So what can we do about it? The child part wants what she wants, and is not logical. Typical child behavior! My T has always tried to get me to give the child what she wants, and that's been partially successful. I want T to give it to her, not me, so she says she and I can be there for that child part. That always feels better, though it's not the final goal. The young parts do get louder at times but I never noticed when. Thanks for that thought. They get louder when they feel overlooked, when they aren't getting enough attention or getting loved enough.

[Sannah]

Rainbow, our childhoods can go wrong when we don't get enough but our childhoods can also go wrong if we get too much.

Since you have been on this quest to figure out what happened to you, I'm just wondering if you possibly got too much while growing up? Do you think that this is possible?

If children get too much they don't learn to appreciate things and they always want more. Parents who do this believe that they are doing the right thing for their child. Giving your child the right amount so that they can be healthy requires the parent to be the bad guy, the tough guy sometimes. Could it be that your mom just wasn't up for that?

A person cannot learn to appreciate things unless they go without, so parents need to make sure that a child goes without sometimes. You know the saying that you don't miss the water until the well goes dry.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

You really think I'm progressing. Tell that to my H. He thinks I'm still the same..

phooey on yr DH. There was a time you were riveted to yr T & her opinion and now when she reassures you that she's back, you are strong enough to say, so what? I don't care. That's growth, my girl, even if you were p****ed of when you said it. You're learning to stand up and walk. This is good stuff, Rainbow.

[venusss]

I don't want to sound mean... but sometimes we don't get what we want. ANd sometimes we don't even get what we need. It sucks, but it happens... and maybe sometimes one should let go.

I heard that people who experienced starvation feel hungry for the rest of their lifes. People who grew with little material things and get lucky sometimes go crazy and want more more more more more... and it doesn't end up well. You cannot make up for the past...

I guess it is same with feelings. We get burned in relationships... but we clinging and want "it" from others creates more discomfort. Cry and mourn for a bit... and then move on. Loses and misfortunes are part of life...we all live with scars... but they don't define us. Don't let it consume you more than it should.

I can relate to emptiness and wanting something else, something more (I seek that from places, not people... but it was when I learned (partly) to appeciate the NOW and what is there... I learned to enjoy life more. I still struggle though).

[Hope-Full]

Hope-Full: So what can we do about it? The child part wants what she wants, and is not logical. Typical child behavior!

Good question! I am not quite sure what we can do... yet.

My T has always tried to get me to give the child what she wants, and that's been partially successful. I want T to give it to her, not me, so she says she and I can be there for that child part.

I want T to take care of me too, but I know she can't. Doesn't make me feel good at all, even though I know she's right. I've had a really, really rough week and desperately wanted T to rescue me, to take care of me. T even commented that this week the "young" me was particularly loud - well, duh! I want a mom right now, what I'm dealing with has been hard to deal with alone, and even though I have had a few friends really step up and help out, that little girl in me wants mom. Since my mom can't step up, I want T. Even told T that I wish, for a week, she could be mom, then go back to being T. Yeah, right.

They get louder when they feel overlooked, when they aren't getting enough attention or getting loved enough.

T said something like this to me yesterday, and I really didn't want to hear it. She also commented that when I get in this space, I tend to ignore what good I DO have, the people that ARE there for me, that would be willing to step up and do anything I ask, all I have to do is ask. Instead of feeling happy about that, I'm just crabby that T can't be what I want her to be.

However, the logical part, which often tends to squish the young part (something that we're working on not happening, instead letting the logical part take care of the young part) knows that T is giving me what I really need, even if I don't like it at the moment. That whole "teach a man to fish" analogy sucks a lot, even if it does make sense.

[eskielover]

Humans have their logical & emotional mind from the time they are young. It's not young vs logical......it's emotional vs logical & with the DBT mindfulness skills, one learns to bring the logical & the emotional together to make the wise mind decisions that take all aspects into consideration. When that is done, there is a peaceful feeling in the decision or thoughts that we end up with & there is no need for squishing the young part because the wise mind decision through the mindfulness process takes care of all that.

I have found that the use of DBT has opened up my viewing & awareness of a whole lot of other thoughts & possibilities than I had ever considered before. It's been the answer to a lot of struggles I had in the past.....but it also fit well with my logical side which always overpowered the rest of my thinking.