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  #1  
Old Jun 06, 2012, 10:57 PM
Anonymous100153
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Over the weekend my therapist emailed me something very innocently, genuinely trying to help me, but it triggered something in me that caused me to get really angry. I was angry at myself, but unfortunately reacted very strongly and quickly and ended up sending him a short but ugly sarcastic reply.

Today, he told me flat-out that I had insulted him and it felt like I'd attacked him. He wasn't yelling at me or acting upset, but I could tell that the email really offended him. He said, maybe if he had been mocking me or was sarcastic in the first place he could understand my reply but for me to snark at him only trying to help was completely uncalled for.

This was the email exchange:

T: *Local festival* is a good place for you to be social but anonymous. [Social phobia is one of my biggest issues. I hate going out but I'm trying to step out of my comfort zone more, and he was suggesting an event he thought I'd enjoy.]

Me: I'm aware. I've been thinking of that going on, and how I can't even bring myself to go to a community event because of my anxiety...I'd managed to not worry about it but thanks for reminding me. [that end part was what really insulted him.
]

It made me mad that I have such anxiety that I knew I wasn't going to go to this festival. I hate how much it has overtaken my life, even with almost a year already of therapy for it. I felt like I didn't need a reminder of what was going on that I was going to miss...but it wasn't his fault. He really was only trying to help.

I don't know what I'm looking for here...just wanted to vent this. I feel so sad right now. I knew it was a nasty reply (and in fact later in the evening I followed up with an apology email and planned to say so in person as well), but I didn't realize just how bad it was until he told me how insulted he was and then went on to tell me that it reminded him of something my (very aggressive, verbally abusive) father would say I think he was trying to get me to open my eyes to how lashing out can be really bad and I can't be like my dad, who just says what he feels without caring if he hurts anyone else. That is SO not me, though. This was a mistake, not the norm.

Even though he said I should consider it resolved and to not worry about it, right now it is bothering me way too much. I hate that I did something wrong. I know nobody is perfect but making people upset with me is a HUGE deal and probably an issue I need to spend time on in therapy. I feel like I've made a big mistake and I need to prove myself a good person or something now...like now he thinks I'm not very nice and am going to attack him again in the future. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of sarcasm and even further, real verbal abuse, and the last thing on earth I want to do is cause someone else that pain.
Hugs from:
Anonymous47147, SeaSalt

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  #2  
Old Jun 06, 2012, 11:22 PM
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Nightlight Nightlight is offline
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What you said wasn't that bad. It sounds like what you said triggered something for your T, the way what he said triggered something for you. He was only trying to help, you know that. You are still allowed to be angry about the situation. I think my own therapist has also felt insulted when she feels like she's gone out of her way to think of me, or to offer something helpful, and I've rejected the help. She also will sometimes share that with me, telling me the way it made her feel. Once she told me she felt like I'd slammed a door, and at the time it really hurt my feelings, because she stopped trying to help with something and I didn't think I'd slammed a door at all. I didn't understand what was happening. For me personally, it's really enhanced the relationship, knowing her genuine feelings. I think she shares them partly to demonstrate the way my actions can make other people feel.

Even though your T said consider it resolved, it's okay to go back next time needing to talk about it again. I think that's what I've tended to do. Even though the situation feels awful at the time, I've always survived it. I think often it's been a blessing in disguise, because it gives us something to work with. All of those big unmanageable feelings that arise, and not just my recollection of those feelings, but there they are, right there in the room, for us to work with.

Honestly, truly, what you said was not that bad. T might not have deserved the anger directed at him when he was just trying to help, but that was a normal human reaction...and it wasn't a dreadful mistake. You'll get through this!

Last edited by Nightlight; Jun 06, 2012 at 11:42 PM.
  #3  
Old Jun 06, 2012, 11:26 PM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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I kept waiting to see the insult. I don't think you insulted him at all. You do keep to keep talking about it if you want.
  #4  
Old Jun 06, 2012, 11:38 PM
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unaluna unaluna is offline
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i'm with stopdog. I think T is mad at himself - did he initiate the email? kind of a boundary crossing! you know how we talk on here about how T's responses to our emails are so SHORT - with this email, it's like he blurted out something without thinking how you would take it, THEN got mad at you for having feelings about it but you really had no way to respond - you were not there in person with him, and he started something! It was not that innocent after all. He owes YOU an apology, IMO. This is a very interesting lesson about boundaries. T should always provide a safe place, and he failed here.
Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #5  
Old Jun 06, 2012, 11:42 PM
Anonymous100153
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Nightlight, I agree that maybe it triggered something in him, too. This is my first therapy experience and the first time something like this has happened, so I don't know how it goes when a conflict occurs but I was wondering if sarcasm is maybe a sore spot for him and I just happened to hit it. I still think I definitely shouldn't have lashed out, though. I will be going back to this because it feels really unsettled.

stopdog, I think maybe it wasn't so much what I said but the way I responded that offended him. He was thinking of me and reached out and I acted like he did something wrong.

I really don't know. I keep going back and forth between beating myself up like I did in my first post, but then thinking he really reacted strongly considering this is the first time I've ever snapped at him. But he said to me, "Do you think I'm overreacting?...because that really was not necessary" so regardless of how I feel, it clearly hit a huge nerve with him.
  #6  
Old Jun 06, 2012, 11:53 PM
Anonymous32910
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Your T was letting you know that your words were biting and that's okay. He has a right to do that, and from your description he was calm about it, said what he needed to say, and let you know it was something that for him is resolved. He's not holding a grudge or anything.

You are going to have to let yourself off the hook here. Your anxiety obviously has much more to do about your past than it has to do with your encounter with your T. That's fine. Just keep in mind that your T is fine. Stop flailing yourself with your whip. My husband does this. One slight misstep sends him reeling for days until he finally resolves in his head that his problem really isn't with the current event. He's reacting out of habit to how he saw and experienced things when he was much younger.

This would be a really great starting place for a discussion about this (meaning those old beliefs and behaviors your are reliving right now). Talk to you T about how this incident has triggered an old response in you. (and in the meantime try to let yourself off the hook; this isn't a major crime or anything).
Thanks for this!
elliemay, kirbydog156, rainboots87
  #7  
Old Jun 06, 2012, 11:53 PM
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unaluna unaluna is offline
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He CANNOT tell your tone of voice from an email! You could have been angry, you could have been crying and whimpering. you could have been lying when you said you were being snarky yeah that's the ticket...
Thanks for this!
TinaL
  #8  
Old Jun 06, 2012, 11:58 PM
Anonymous100153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankster View Post
i'm with stopdog. I think T is mad at himself - did he initiate the email? kind of a boundary crossing! you know how we talk on here about how T's responses to our emails are so SHORT - with this email, it's like he blurted out something without thinking how you would take it, THEN got mad at you for having feelings about it but you really had no way to respond - you were not there in person with him, and he started something! It was not that innocent after all. He owes YOU an apology, IMO. This is a very interesting lesson about boundaries. T should always provide a safe place, and he failed here.
Yes, he did initiate it. I think he made an assumption about how I would take it and I went the totally opposite direction, which he didn't like. He thought it would be helpful because we were talking about the fact that sometimes I feel more comfortable in bigger crowds because I can blend in more and he figured this festival was perfect for that, so when I freaked out and got angry, it was like I purposefully shot him down for trying to be thoughtful. Which, well, I did, but truthfully he caught me at a bad time that day and I wasn't planning to hear from him. I didn't explain that, though because I think he would have just taken it as me trying to make excuses for my inappropriate reaction.
  #9  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 12:05 AM
Anonymous100153
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farmergirl, thank you. I always admire your smart, rational responses to people and I appreciate your input here. I really empathize with your husband, that's exactly what I do, too, and I think you're absolutely right that this is about something much more than just this event with my therapist. I will try to put down the whip for awhile.
  #10  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 12:06 AM
Anonymous32910
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Originally Posted by amaj910 View Post
I will try to put down the whip for awhile.
Good job!
  #11  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 12:07 AM
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unaluna unaluna is offline
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Al Pacino would say, "YOU'RE not out of order, HE'S out of order!" I definitely had too much coffee today! Sorry to be harping!
Thanks for this!
TinaL
  #12  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 12:14 AM
Anonymous100153
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Not harping at all, hankster. You made me smile, which I really need. Boy do I understand having too much coffee
  #13  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 04:16 AM
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CantExplain CantExplain is offline
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I think you're entitled to the occasional sarcastic comment.

Ts always say when they feel insulted. It's the law or something. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't have said it.
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  #14  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 04:56 AM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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The first response I had was the urge to tell your therapist to butch up. I hope you can let yourself off the hook and don't now feel like you have to tiptoe around the man.
  #15  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 05:19 AM
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elliemay elliemay is offline
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Well, regardless of insult or not, I think the primary issue at hand here is now allowing yourself to let it go.

I mean we can argue until the cows come home, even adopt a serious position of righteous indignation about rightness or wrongness of your therapist, but right now I just don't see that it's about that at all.

I can think of no safer place than one where mistakes are acknowledged AND forgiven. There are no grudges here. THAT is the important thing.

Your therapist has expressed his feelings, and forgiveness on the issue, so please do try and allow yourself to feel that and carry on.

Everybody makes mistakes. We are entitled to be forgiven for those mistakes - especially by our therapists. It's okay. It's the first step in accepting all of yourself.

A simple mistake doesn't have to ruin everything, it doesn't create a permanent separation from anything and it's not an indictment on who we are in general (although it may indicate something on which we want to improve or think about). It's just a mistake.

It's a typo on the page of life, and you'll like make another one. In fact, I can guarentee it. Your therapist will screw up too. I can guarentee that as well.

It's all okay.
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  #16  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 06:10 AM
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WikidPissah WikidPissah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaj910 View Post
I didn't realize just how bad it was until he told me how insulted he was and then went on to tell me that it reminded him of something my (very aggressive, verbally abusive) father would say
Your comment was a bit snarky or sarcastic, but in no way was it verbally abusive. It bugs me that he would point towards your father's issues. He was offended, pointed that out and I assume you apologized. No reason to bring daddy into the mix. I think it might be worth another conversation.
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never mind...
Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #17  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 06:21 AM
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critterlady critterlady is offline
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Don't forget that one of the most important jobs a therapist has is to model healthy relationships with us. It's his job to make sure you're aware of how you come across to others. It seems to me that he was pointing out the effects of your snarkiness, so that you could learn from that and perhaps remember it in the future when you're tempted to be snarky with someone else. There's no safer place to make that kind of mistake.

It's also the best place in the world to learn how to take feedback like that. Take him at his word that it's done and in the past for him.
Thanks for this!
elliemay
  #18  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 06:40 AM
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elliemay elliemay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WikidPissah View Post
Your comment was a bit snarky or sarcastic, but in no way was it verbally abusive. It bugs me that he would point towards your father's issues. He was offended, pointed that out and I assume you apologized. No reason to bring daddy into the mix. I think it might be worth another conversation.
I disagree. Therapy, I think, is about unlearning old stuff too. If who and what daddy is/was is at issue then sometimes it has to be pointed out.

I mean we are in therapy to learn right? To see connections right? Sometimes they have to be pointed out at first in order to make them.

Everything is always worth conversation of course, but I'm withholding judgment about connecting the former experience with the actions of the present.
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Thanks for this!
WikidPissah
  #19  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 07:06 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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I agree with the thinking that T should have been more skillful.

1. Sending the unsolicited email and suggestion crossed a boundary.

Quote:
truthfully he caught me at a bad time that day and I wasn't planning to hear from him.
This is exactly why unsolicited contact from T is questionable.

2. Saying that "It is resolved, don't worry about it." is invalidating. It might be resolved for him, but, clearly, it is not resolved for you.
Thanks for this!
stopdog
  #20  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 07:11 AM
Anonymous32795
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Perhaps your therapist would benefit from hanging the motto on his wall "it's not always about me"
Thanks for this!
stopdog
  #21  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 07:28 AM
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unaluna unaluna is offline
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I think he got yelled at at home, got on the computer to soothe himself - i'm a good T even if I'm a bad husband (which is why it's such a bad boundary crossing), then when he got yelled at by you too, he lost it. But he doesn't want to admit this to you - he needs supervision! (as I tell my T). "Don't worry about it" should be an explanation and an apology. YOU have owned your part in this, he hasn't. T says I fight to the death to be right - hence my new avatar! I guess I would want to know more about how the email happened - is this a usual thing for you two or what? What can you expect in the future? Does HE realize how it surprised you, and can he help you figure that out? These might be more benign ways to address the snafu.
  #22  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 07:59 AM
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lostmyway21 lostmyway21 is offline
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If your T thinks what you said was an insult to him then you should give him to me for a day. He makes my T looks like an angel for the abuse I put him through.

You obviously had a reaction to his unexpected email and were triggered. You did nothing wrong. You weren't even mean. He crossed a boundary even if he had good intentions. His plan blew up so he got his feelings hurt. Oh well...your therapy Isent about HIS feelings. Ughhhh.
Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #23  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 04:42 PM
Anonymous100153
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Thank you all so much for your feedback, it really helps to get some outsider perspectives. I feel a bit better today. I see a couple of different opinions and I'm going to really consider what everyone said because I think it's a mixture of things.

Yes, I was unnecessarily snarky, and I agree with critterlady that he was pointing out the effects of that so I can remember and learn from that. And believe me, I am going to. I think this is making me realize the unhealthy boundaries and lack of consequences I have experienced through my life from mouthing off. My parents both tend to be aggressive and as I said, my dad especially is truly abusive and while I usually try to be respectful and kind, I definitely have some of my dad's bad habits and give it right back to my parents but they have always let me get away with it. (My home environment is really unhealthy in a lot of ways, way too much to even get into.) I know it sounds very strange but at home I can get really ugly with my words, but am never nasty to people outside of my family--however I was this time, and he rightfully called me out on it and as much as it felt like a punch in the stomach, now that that's wearing off I understand what my therapist was trying to do. I could get myself in big trouble and/or really hurt people if I don't watch how I communicate and don't get it pointed out when I mess up.

On the other side, I also agree that maybe a boundary was crossed by him initiating an email contact. hankster, to answer your question, email is a regular thing with us, he's always been very open to emails but he very rarely contacts me unless I write him first. He has emailed to suggest some other things in the past, but this was the first time I snapped at him instead of thanking him for it and I think that really surprised and offended him.

As for the future, he had said that because of how I acted he didn't ever want to try to help me again by offering suggestions because that's the thanks he got, but then he'd give me another chance because I said I would not snark at him anymore. So, I guess right now he will still plan to contact me with those kind of things but maybe we need to talk about if that's a good idea.

(Sorry, this is long, I don't usually post a lot but I'm definitely a bit on the verbose side )

Bill3, I also agree with you that it's invalidating that he decided it's all over. He had since Saturday to think about it and move on, but I had no idea until yesterday that it was such a problem and I'm still reeling from it. I don't think he gets to decide when I'm over something. I'm almost afraid to bring it up again because he might say "I thought we got over that last week". I do not want to obsess over this, of course, but if I need to process and revisit it I think I'm within my rights to do that.

Sorry if I didn't address you directly, this is quite long enough but I've read everything and again I appreciate everyone's thoughts a lot. I do think my therapist wasn't 100% right with his reaction, and I was definitely wrong, but that's not the issue anymore because as elliemay said everybody messes up, and this won't be the last time it happens with us. I am going to focus on what I can learn from this and aim to move on.
Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #24  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 05:05 PM
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PreacherHeckler PreacherHeckler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaj910 View Post
As for the future, he had said that because of how I acted he didn't ever want to try to help me again by offering suggestions because that's the thanks he got, but then he'd give me another chance because I said I would not snark at him anymore.
Seriously? One little snarky comment made him react like that? Wow. That's the kind of reaction I'd expect from my mother or my ex-husband. If he's that thin-skinned he shouldn't be a therapist.
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Conversation with my therapist:

Doc: "You know, for the past few weeks you've seemed very disconnected from your emotions when you're here."
Me: "I'm not disconnected from my emotions. I just don't feel anything when I'm here."
(Pause)
Me: "Doc, why are you banging your head against the arm of your chair?"
Doc: "Because I'm not close enough to a wall."

It's official. I can even make therapists crazy.
Thanks for this!
stopdog
  #25  
Old Jun 07, 2012, 05:21 PM
Anonymous100153
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Originally Posted by amaj910 View Post
As for the future, he had said that because of how I acted he didn't ever want to try to help me again by offering suggestions because that's the thanks he got, but then he'd give me another chance because I said I would not snark at him anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler View Post
Seriously? One little snarky comment made him react like that? Wow. That's the kind of reaction I'd expect from my mother or my ex-husband. If he's that thin-skinned he shouldn't be a therapist.

Mmhm, you know, I did have that thought too. I know I sound like I keep going back and forth on how I feel, but as much as I see his point about this being insulting, it is the first real problematic thing I've done in a year and I was pretty taken aback by how much it seemed to personally offend him. He's been a therapist for a good 20 years and surely people have said much worse things. Not to excuse myself, I still take responsibility for what I did, but I can't help but wonder what kind of real sore spot I might have hit that he'd want to never reach out again for fear of getting his feelings hurt.
Thanks for this!
Bill3
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