[autotelica]

I was telling her that I'm concerned that my hobbies are actually more like obsessions--more like pathologies. She kept disagreeing with me, saying that they are what make me wonderful and healthy and blah blah blah.

I got a little indignant and told her about my house. How incredibly messy it is--every surface is covered in art supplies. There are dried paint splotches in my bedsheets. My artwork is everywhere. That is why I always give it away. Because if I didn't, I wouldn't have room to breath.

She still didn't believe that it could be that bad. She said that she bet that if my mother was going to come visit, I'd have it cleaned up in no time. I told her it would take 2 weeks and she laughed like I was exaggerating. It was kind of frustrating, me having to explain how bad off things are. It's like she didn't want to believe.

So she gave me a homework assignment. I had mentioned how disorganized my desk is, so she told me to take a picture of it and email it to her. Then I had to clean it up and take another picture of it. Before and after. As soon as I got home, I took a picture and sent it to her. Immediately I was embarrassed and wanted to retract it. She emailed me back, saying she couldn't wait to see it clean.

I'm thinking she must think I'm a hoarder now, living in third degree squalor. A nasty, dirty person fooling everyone with my "put together" facade. I'm very embarrassed and wished that I hadn't even brought up the subject. But I felt like she wasn't listening to me. Every issue I bring to her, she downplays it like it's not that big of a deal, and I just go along because I don't know any better and I don't want to come across as whiny. I'm getting sick of it, I guess. I know it's not normal to have paint in your bed!

If I say that I think something is a problem, it would be nice for her to listen to me explain why before telling me I'm wrong.

[unaluna]

so have you told her - stop, you're not listening to me, and it's demeaning, and you're making me mad, and if you're trying to make me feel better, it's not working - it just feels like you're negating me, you're invalidating everything i'm saying - why are you doing that? because that's a separate issue from having paint in your bed (i have books in mine ).

[Wren_]

Is this how you think you are "I'm thinking she must think I'm a hoarder now, living in third degree squalor. A nasty, dirty person fooling everyone with my "put together" facade" ?

or is it more; you wish T would accept the reality of what is going on and help with that rather than taking it so lightly but at the same time as wanting T to know the reality you don't want them to think you are a total beyond help mess as well ?

[newtus]

i had a therapist that didnt believe me when i said i killed 10 hamsters. to joke - id think shed get a surprise if i showed her before and after pics.

[autotelica]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

Is this how you think you are "I'm thinking she must think I'm a hoarder now, living in third degree squalor. A nasty, dirty person fooling everyone with my "put together" facade" ?

or is it more; you wish T would accept the reality of what is going on and help with that rather than taking it so lightly but at the same time as wanting T to know the reality you don't want them to think you are a total beyond help mess as well ?

The second...I think.

I want her not to argue with me when I say something is concerning. Because in order for me to convince her, I have to do humiliating stuff like take pictures. If she would have just trusted me when I said I'm very disorganized, maybe I wouldn't be so embarrassed.

Also, her arguing with me in this way makes me think she doesn't really know the true me. She has a half-picture of what I'm like and she's drawn erroneous conclusions from it. Because I am an environmental scientist, she thinks I'm passionate about the environment. I'm not. I'm pretty detached from what I do--which is why I've been seeing her for the past 4 years. But when I try to correct this misperception, she argues with me. Which makes me think it's incomprehensible to her that I couldn't be passionate and that only a really bad person would admit to as much.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by autotelica

I know it's not normal to have paint in your bed!

Says who? Who made that rule? If you got/want paint in your bed, it's just paint in the bed; you change the sheets and do the laundry if you don't want paint in the bed.

I do not know what you are trying to convince your T of? Problems are for solving, not cataloging. Are you asking your T to come over and make you stop doing your hobbies?

I'm still having trouble with who criticized you for getting paint in your bed that you think that is "not normal"/allowed. I write poetry in my bed, I'm sure I have gotten ink on my sheets and I have a wonderful memory of being sick when I was about 7 and in my parents bed and my stepmother bought me a life-sized "model" of a bird, a robin I think, and I spilled the dirty paint thinner, made an ugly gray splotch on the sheets (that may well have never come off). She said, "It was an accident, that can happen; here, hop up and let me change the bed."

[autotelica]

Perna, if it was just a matter of paint in my bed, then it wouldn't be an issue for me. I'd just buy another set of bedsheets.

But I have paint everywhere.

Yes, I want her to help me figure out how to break away from my art. So that I can maybe leave some room for human relationships and optimal functionality. Being able to open the door of my house without feeling shame is a part of being functional, no?

[Perna]

We do what we need to do, what pleases us or what we find necessary for our life and protection. If your art is a defense, you need it right now; you work on getting comfortable with the human relationships and cleaning your desk and as you get more comfortable with that, then the need for the art all the time lessens. Symptoms aren't the problem.

Trying to change symptoms never worked for me but I fixed some of my problems in therapy and the symptoms lessened (if they are habits too, after their need has gone away then one can work on changing the habit) or disappeared altogether because they didn't "fit" with what I wanted or needed anymore. Kind of like Carly Simon's,
I haven't got time for the pain
I haven't got room for the pain
I haven't the need for the pain

Your painting is part of you, like dreaming. You can't rip it out of your life, organize it like the desk, "control" it anymore than one can do that with their body, mind, or emotions, as if they are concrete "things". The painting probably knows more about you than you do; ask it to help you instead of treating it like an out of control wild animal.

Did you ever read the book Women Who Run With the Wolves? http://www.clarissapinkolaestes.com/...ype_101250.htm

[elliemay]

well something is clearly bothering you. Are you sure it's about the house and the paint etc...

Do you find that, in general, your therapist minimizes how you feel about things?

Do you think she is just not "getting" how bad you feel in general?

What is behind the compulsion to paint do you think? Do you want to stop?

I gotta say, most people do celebrate artistic expresion and a creative mind often gets so involved that other things, like room to move in the house, take a back seat.

What matters is how you feel about it and how it affects you.

Seriously though, you might want to consider organizing a show or something. You could make some money.

There is nothing that kills a hobby quicker than "having" to do it. Then it becomes work.

[autotelica]

Originally Posted by elliemay

Do you find that, in general, your therapist minimizes how you feel about things?

Yes. I feel like she shoots down all of my self-perceptions, even when they aren't off-base. If I say I feel stupid because I have a hard time speaking sometimes, she says I sound pretty articulate to her. Even when I'm stuttering and obviously have a hard time finding words. It would not hurt for her to say, "Yes, you sometimes do have difficulty speaking, but people who know you know you are smart."

Do you think she is just not "getting" how bad you feel in general?

I think she has distorted view of me, but it's not in one direction. Like, I think she thinks I'm more handicapped than I am in the socialization department. But when it comes to self-care, I think she thinks I'm doing better than I am. I accept some responsibility for the erroneous conclusions. I don't volunteer a lot of information about myself and I do kind of wait for her to ask questions. But when I do speak about myself, she tells me I'm wrong. So I don't know how to fix this.

What is behind the compulsion to paint do you think? Do you want to stop?

No, I don't want to stop. I love creating and I love giving away what I make. The former connects my mind to my body and takes me to another dimension, psychologically. The latter makes me feel connected to people and goodness.

I don't want to stop, but I don't assume this means what I'm doing is *right*. When it's all I think about...when I can't keep track of bills because the mess is so much...I think I have a problem.

Seriously though, you might want to consider organizing a show or something. You could make some money.

I actually *sell* my stuff on the street, on a vending table once or twice a month. I let people pay whatever they want or take something for free with a promise to give it away. So I have channeled it into a productive, if not profitable, endeavor.

Perna, you've given me a lot to think about! Maybe I am trying to fix the wrong thing. It's just that I'm sensing my therapist is looking at her watch, so to speak, and I want to be more proactive about *fixing* things. Being so intense and self-absorbed seems like the main thing I need to fix. But perhaps I'm thinking about this in the wrong way.

[WikidPissah]

My t often tries to "normalize" things I say, and it feels like he is minimizing them. I don't like it at all. Maybe you can tell her that you know it isn't abnormal to "have paint on your sheets", but it is complicating your life and you would like to change it.

I have a hard time speaking sometimes, she says I sound pretty articulate to her. Even when I'm stuttering and obviously have a hard time finding words. It would not hurt for her to say, "Yes, you sometimes do have difficulty speaking, but people who know you know you are smart."

Oh, this I do recognise - ex-T did it all the time, and it made me feel that either she was not listening properly, or I was failing to express what I meant (though not for lack of trying!), or I was just... wrong, which made me a stupid client for thinking something was wrong that wasn't.

I appreciate that sometimes clients are wrong, and have distorted views of themselves that are not what others see (in fact, I'm sure that's true a lot of the time). But there has to be a way for a T to convey that without sounding as if they are dismissive of what the client tries to say.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Perna

Symptoms aren't the problem.
Trying to change symptoms never worked for me but I fixed some of my problems in therapy and the symptoms lessened or disappeared altogether because they didn't "fit" with what I wanted or needed anymore. Kind of like Carly Simon's,
I haven't got time for the pain
I haven't got room for the pain
I haven't the need for the pain

love Carly; this is one of my favorite lyrics