I feel weird. I feel like my relationship with a 4 yr old I babysit is mirroring my relationship with my t
Sometimes I want my t and I am excited to see T and talk to T.
RA (child) is always excited to see me and waits by the window for my car to pull up.

But once I get here, and we start playing, periodically he tells me "I need you to leave now, I need you to get out." So I walk away, (down the hall) and then he chases me in a panic telling me to come back, come back, you sit right here (but don't touch anything.)

With my T, I always tell her to go away, stay away from me, don't like me. I say I hate you, I say you're horrid, knowing I don't mean those things but I let the words out anyway. And then when I'm afraid it worked and she really is going to leave then I run after her and e-mail all my sorries and I show up to my sessions after all.

Today, RA's tears, his tantrums, his "I need you to sit in the closet, I need to close the doors" I tell him I'm afraid in the dark, so he says "it's not scary, see I turn the light on. And he does. Then he pushes me into the closet and closes the door.

Watching Super Why in the living room, he says no I don't want TC , I want Mommy, only Mommy. He cries when she walks away back to her office, but accepts that he has to stay here with me and I control the remote. Complete calm and silence during the first fifteen minute episode. Then he sucks furiously on what remains of his teddy bear's arm, and tells me to get out, get out go away. So I get up and walk into the hall. When he's not looking, I sneak back in and sit behind the couch. Moments later his voice rises in a panic, TC, TC don't stay over there, come back, sit right here next to me, sit on the couch with me. So I sit, and periodically he looks over to make sure I am still there.

Later, he repeatedly flings himself into my arms, laughing and giggling, wanting to be close, to be hugged, to be tickled.

I feel like this wanting/not wanting tug of war is going on, not unlike what I am doing with my T. It might be less irritating if I understood it, but I don't. Even though I'm doing it with my T.

How is this behavior explained a child who has never been abused?

You might try looking up Disorganized Attachment in children. I'm not saying that is what you're describing, but you might find some of the characteristics described familiar to what you're experiencing with this youngster. I'm glad to see that you are giving him the space he needs to "come closer" to you. He most likely senses that you are a safe person, even when he pushes you away or attempts to dictate how you're to interact with him. Hang in there with him! He's lucky to have a person who cares so much and who is willing to truly listen to what he is trying to say!

Quote: I tell him I'm afraid in the dark, so he says "it's not scary, see I turn the light on. And he does. Then he pushes me into the closet and closes the door.

That sure is good babysitting skills from a four year old

------------------
Qoute: How is this behavior explained a child who has never been abused?

I can say that I once had a babysitter who was abused ( I was six years old) ( don´t know your story, judgeing or anything)

I would say that I ended up displaying some of the same signs that your are descriebing with that person.

Quote: "So I get up and walk into the hall. When he's not looking, I sneak back in and sit behind the couch. Moments later his voice rises in a panic, TC, TC don't stay over there, come back, sit right here next to me, sit on the couch with me. So I sit, and periodically he looks over to make sure I am still there.

This is not babysitting. I am sorry this is two four year olds interacting. The sad part is children usually should not panic during play.This is mind gaming and frustrating that child. YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO LOOK AFTER HIM. NOT THIS, THAT IS WHY YOU GET PAID But I am relieved the mother is around.

I think it is very important to define who is taking care of whom etc. when being responsible for a child. Children pick up on stuff very quickly and react accordingly

Your thread is called " My behaviour is mirroring a four year old.- Could it be that this child is unconsiously mirroring you and you attchment style back ? It seems to me that he is a perfectly normal four year old reacting to something and maybe you should dicuss this pattern of interaction when babysitting and in therapy with your T.

Qoute:I feel like this wanting/not wanting tug of war is going on, not unlike what I am doing with my T. It might be less irritating if I understood it, but I don't. Even though I'm doing it with my T.
You display the same behaviour whether you are babysitting a four year old or interacting with your T. Difference is the child will react accordingly wich may be irritating to you. Your T won´t. She is there to help and support you

[Sannah]

If you are doing what this 4 yr old wants that can be scary for him because this means that he is in control. This is scary for a young child. Children feel secure when an adult is in control. You can respect his needs for space by not interacting with him at that moment but doing everything that he asks is not good.

He is probably just upset that his mom left and is taking it out on you.

Good luck in your work in therapy.

Originally Posted by lonelybychoice

Quote: I tell him I'm afraid in the dark, so he says "it's not scary, see I turn the light on. And he does.

------------------
Qoute: How is this behavior explained a child who has never been abused?
When he's not looking, I sneak back in and sit behind the couch. Moments later his voice rises in a panic,

This is not babysitting. I am sorry this is two four year olds interacting. This is mind gaming and frustrating that child. YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO LOOK AFTER HIM. NOT THIS, THAT IS WHY YOU GET PAID Children pick up on stuff very quickly and react accordingly

You display the same behaviour whether you are babysitting a four year old or interacting with your T. Difference is the child will react accordingly wich may be irritating to you. Your T won´t. She is there to help and support you

His mother is very sick and I cannot interpret his behavior as a normal child. His stress levels are very high, and he exhibits other behaviors in that regard, that I'm not going to get into, but I am trying not to aggravate them.

With a normal kid, acting like this would result in a time out. But why is he really behaving this way? Does it have to do with his mother? And do not say its because of me, I am great with kids and have never in my life had one act like this. As for "kids shouldn't panic during play"- thats entirely my point. We were not playing. He was having an emotional meltdown. He is not picking these behaviors up from me, I haven't been his babysitter long enough. He was this way before I ever got near him.

Originally Posted by Sannah

If you are doing what this 4 yr old wants that can be scary for him because this means that he is in control. This is scary for a young child. Children feel secure when an adult is in control. You can respect his needs for space by not interacting with him at that moment but doing everything that he asks is not good.

He is probably just upset that his mom left and is taking it out on you.

Good luck in your work in therapy.

His mom is sick, and yes, I suspect that all of his negative behaviors stem from that, which is why I'm not responding the way I would to a typical child. (strict rules/discipline, time out). The only rule I really enforce with him is no hitting (his parents let him have the lead on most other things, so I have to reinforce that- but yes since mom got sick he does a lot of what he wants to do.)

I'm not sure where I might step wrong with him. My T gives me space and patience, so I am trying to do the same for him. I suspect it has to do with how young he is, and not being able to understand chemo and sickness as it has been described to him, and he doesn't have the vocab to explain his feelings or confusion.

[AngelWolf3]

I don't have any answers, but it sounds like you are in a really tough spot, and even though I have 2 kids of my own, I don't know how I would handle your situation! I admire you for trying and sticking with it for the little guy.
Do you think you could ask your T for advice on how to handle him/the situation?

Originally Posted by Wolfin3

I don't have any answers, but it sounds like you are in a really tough spot, and even though I have 2 kids of my own, I don't know how I would handle your situation! I admire you for trying and sticking with it for the little guy.
Do you think you could ask your T for advice on how to handle him/the situation?

lol I have bombarded the woman with questions about this since yesterday. She has elected not to respond. Probably she will in session. Since I'm flying blind, I have basically been thinking "What would my T do?" And she lets me throw things at her, she gives me space, she talks to me thru puppets/teddy bears when I am having a hard time, and mostly this works and the tantrums evaporate in seconds, but I wish he wasn't having such a hard time and I wish I knew what to do for him.

But I am sure none of this is because of me or my attachment style, I am not "broken" around my kids. I check my baggage at the door and am there only for the kid.

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

His mother is very sick and I cannot interpret his behavior as a normal child. His stress levels are very high, and he exhibits other behaviors in that regard, that I'm not going to get into, but I am trying not to aggravate them.

With a normal kid, acting like this would result in a time out. But why is he really behaving this way? Does it have to do with his mother? And do not say its because of me, I am great with kids and have never in my life had one act like this. As for "kids shouldn't panic during play"- thats entirely my point. We were not playing. He was having an emotional meltdown. He is not picking these behaviors up from me, I haven't been his babysitter long enough. He was this way before I ever got near him.

If you were not playing why were you hiding in the closet and behind the couch As for timeout it is not clear why that would be appropiate but there is someone who is getting timeouts,in this case and that is the babysitter......Nevermind..Seems this is a little kid in a bit of distress. Not blaming you, the mother or the mailman for that matter...because that is hard to really do based on the information in this thread. It´s all emotional when it comes to children, so some may have a opoinion one way or the other. Hope T can help clearify this for you and that he is going to be okey. I won´t stir this thread into another direction because you wrote it do to regonizing having somewhat of the same pattern with your T and your behaviour is mirroring a four year old, if I am not mistaken. I think it is great though that you worry about him too and seek out answers. As for normal...if his mother is very sick and he is not reacting one way or the other..I would consider that not normal and in no need of a timeout but something else instead ( he clearly knows how these works). Hiding behind the couch where he can´t find you when you have not agreed " let´s play this game" and having a mother who is ill who attend to babysitters and not him at this point ( maybe even getting a wipe of the illness and who knows?), I can understand if he is having some serious anxiety and needs to be reasured that you are there when you come up from behind that couch.,,, Ouch! Mayby just some patience and emphaty from an adult who is willing to be the adult would do the work he won´t be evenmore confused/distressed.

Originally Posted by lonelybychoice

If you were not playing why were you hiding in the closet and behind the couch As for timeout it is not clear why that would be appropiate but there is someone who is getting timeouts,in this case and that is the babysitter......Nevermind..Seems this is a little kid in a bit of distress. Not blaming you, the mother or the mailman for that matter...because that is hard to really do based on the information in this thread. It´s all emotional when it comes to children, so some may have a opoinion one way or the other. Hope T can help clearify this for you and that he is going to be okey. I won´t stir this thread into another direction because you wrote it do to regonizing having somewhat of the same pattern with your T and your behaviour is mirroring a four year old, if I am not mistaken. I think it is great though that you worry about him too and seek out answers. As for normal...if his mother is very sick and he is not reacting one way or the other..I would consider that not normal and in no need of a timeout but something else instead ( he clearly knows how these works). Hiding behind the couch where he can´t find you when you have not agreed " let´s play this game" and having a mother who is ill who attend to babysitters and not him at this point ( maybe even getting a wipe of the illness and who knows?), I can understand if he is having some serious anxiety and needs to be reasured that you are there when you come up from behind that couch.,,, Ouch! Mayby just some patience and emphaty from an adult who is willing to be the adult would do the work he won´t be even more confused/distressed.

I will reiterate that we were not playing a game. He was having a "get away" moment and told me to leave the room, so I walked out like he asked, and came back when he wasn't looking to sit behind the couch so I could be near enough to him to keep an eye on him, but that he couldn't see me and get upset and tell me to leave again. We were not playing, I was trying to not provoke him into ANOTHER crying meltdown tantrum.

The closet was another of his "get away" moments and it was not a game. He just suddenly became distressed and told me he needed me to get in the closet so he could close the doors. I said I didn't want to be n the closet bc it was dark so he turned the light on, pushed me in and closed the door. I waited a few moments to placate him and came back out (I can't not be able to see him). This caused him to fling himself on the floor and cry no no no you have to get back in the closet. It was the beginning of his emotional meltdown yesterday.

I have expressed nothing BUT patience for these behaviors. I'm not sure what patience should look like to you?

So, once again- we were not playing, he was melting down. I do not think you are really understanding the situation or the dynamics, but thank you for your responses.

Quote: I do not think you are really understanding the situation or the dynamics, but thank you for your responses.[/QUOTE]

Your welcome. Good luck with your therapy and I hope the four year old will turn out okey.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

The closet was another of his "get away" moments and it was not a game. He just suddenly became distressed and told me he needed me to get in the closet so he could close the doors. I said I didn't want to be n the closet bc it was dark so he turned the light on, pushed me in and closed the door. I waited a few moments to placate him and came back out (I can't not be able to see him). This caused him to fling himself on the floor and cry no no no you have to get back in the closet. It was the beginning of his emotional meltdown yesterday.

He needs you in control so that he can feel more secure. You getting into the closet like he wanted didn't help.

[SallyBrown]

I guess the way I relate to this is both as a patient and as your 4-year-old...

When I get worked up and tell my T to go away, the thing I want most is for him to say, "No. I'm not going away. I'm staying here with you." If I say "Go away," and he goes away, I feel as if he doesn't love me, because he doesn't even put up a fight when I push him away. I feel more safe when I know that even at my worst, and even when I don't know what's good for me, he will stay right there, so that when I calm down and realize I want him there, he never left.

That's just my two cents.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

I guess the way I relate to this is both as a patient and as your 4-year-old...

When I get worked up and tell my T to go away, the thing I want most is for him to say, "No. I'm not going away. I'm staying here with you." If I say "Go away," and he goes away, I feel as if he doesn't love me, because he doesn't even put up a fight when I push him away. I feel more safe when I know that even at my worst, and even when I don't know what's good for me, he will stay right there, so that when I calm down and realize I want him there, he never left.

That's just my two cents.

I've tried that (staying). It causes full blown screaming tantrums. I don't know what the right thing to do with him is.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

I guess the way I relate to this is both as a patient and as your 4-year-old...

When I get worked up and tell my T to go away, the thing I want most is for him to say, "No. I'm not going away. I'm staying here with you." If I say "Go away," and he goes away, I feel as if he doesn't love me, because he doesn't even put up a fight when I push him away. I feel more safe when I know that even at my worst, and even when I don't know what's good for me, he will stay right there, so that when I calm down and realize I want him there, he never left.

That's just my two cents.

You are right... I would feel bad too if my T went away when I told her to. When I do that, then she starts talking to a puppet or a teddy bear wondering what's going on with me. If I try that with RA he will grab the stuffed animal and throw it across the room. Literally. (He throws everything, my T says it's a stress relief for him.) I guess I'll try staying, but part of the problem is sometimes mom is still in the house resting bc her illness/meds drains her- I can't let his screams wake her up.

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

You are right... I would feel bad too if my T went away when I told her to. When I do that, then she starts talking to a puppet or a teddy bear wondering what's going on with me. If I try that with RA he will grab the stuffed animal and throw it across the room. Literally. (He throws everything, my T says it's a stress relief for him.) I guess I'll try staying, but part of the problem is sometimes mom is still in the house resting bc her illness/meds drains her- I can't let his screams wake her up.

Quote: When I do that, then she starts talking to a puppet or a teddy bear wondering what's going on with me. If I try that with RA he will grab the stuffed animal and throw it across the room.

What your T is doing with you in therapy as and adult who can put emotions into words does not nessecarily mean that a four year old can handle "that intervention" from a babysitter.

Quote:My T gives me space and patience, so I am trying to do the same for him. I suspect it has to do with how young he is, and not being able to understand chemo and sickness as it has been described to him, and he doesn't have the vocab to explain his feelings or confusion.

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

You are right... I would feel bad too if my T went away when I told her to. When I do that, then she starts talking to a puppet or a teddy bear wondering what's going on with me. If I try that with RA he will grab the stuffed animal and throw it across the room. Literally. (He throws everything, my T says it's a stress relief for him.) I guess I'll try staying, but part of the problem is sometimes mom is still in the house resting bc her illness/meds drains her- I can't let his screams wake her up.

Your situation certainly does sound really complicated, and I imagine there's no easy fix. It's pretty great that you're trying so hard to help the little guy, who I am sure is going through his own inner turmoil right now. While we might be able to relate on some level about wanting someone to stay, our reactions aren't screaming tantrums because we aren't experiencing the same kind of stuff he's experiencing right now.

I don't want to make this thread about him and not you, so I don't want to push the issue too much. But I did want to ask if you've seen the documentary, "Hold Me Tight, Let Me Go"? If not, it's a tough watch but it also might ring true for you about this kid. The kids in the documentary are VERY troubled, so it's much more extreme than just tantrums, but maybe there's something helpful in there.

Any way you can talk to the mom about taking a more... I'm not sure of the word... strategic approach with him? How to deal with how much noise it will make? I don't know if she has times of more strength where she could discuss it with you.

ANYWAY. About both of you. I'm not sure what you mean when you say, how do you explain it in a child who has never been abused. Does that describe you as well, or just him? If so, then count me as a third. No abuse in my home, yet I still do this sometimes.

Closeness can mean bad things to kids, and if they don't know how to separate the bad stuff from the closeness, it can be a disaster. It doesn't have to be abuse, it can be other things. This kid must know something is up with his mom, and he must long to be close to her but must also be afraid of how upset he will be when he doesn't have access to her. So he loves her, then hates her for not being available and feels threatened by his own feelings of abandonment. If he pushes first, you can't deny him access, and he won't feel rejected. That's just a thought, I obviously don't know exactly what is going on with him.

What does it feel like with your T? When you're pushing her away, what are you thinking in that moment? What purpose is it serving for you?

[blur]

hi tc. it does sound like a difficult situation with babysitting this kid whose mom is ill. i do agree with sannah that he needs structure and for you to be control. i think you are confusing your adult relationship with your T with your babysitting relationship with this child. there are real differences here: with your T you are both adults but in babysitting you are dealing with a child, not an adult. that is a huge difference. the other major difference is that you are not a T but a babysitter. very different roles and being a T would require professional training anyway. letting this child be in control is quite unhealthy for the child and then when you "obey" him and then go back on that obedience by walking back in the room it is going to really confuse him. he needs consistency. when he starts to throw a tantrum i'd tell him he needs to be quiet because his sick mom is sleeping. if he wants you to leave the room patiently explain that you can't leave his presence but he can go play by himself on the opposite side of the room. good luck.

[Sannah]

What works for a tantrum is not doing anything. My daughter tried one once and I sat down and got myself all calm and just watched her. She got tired of it after a few minutes and got up and played. She never tried it again.

Quote: I don't want to make this thread about him and not you, ---->

Response: I don't mind it being about him. It was originally but then I reworded it.

Quote: ANYWAY. About both of you. I'm not sure what you mean when you say, how do you explain it in a child who has never been abused.

Response: I have been molested/raped and I exhibit these behaviors. I have never seen them in a child with no abuse history, but it was explained to me that a sickness is still a trauma, especially to a child so young-a trauma is a trauma.

Closeness can mean bad things to kids, and if they don't know how to separate the bad stuff from the closeness, it can be a disaster. It doesn't have to be abuse, it can be other things. This kid must know something is up with his mom, and he must long to be close to her but must also be afraid of how upset he will be when he doesn't have access to her. So he loves her, then hates her for not being available and feels threatened by his own feelings of abandonment. If he pushes first, you can't deny him access, and he won't feel rejected. That's just a thought, I obviously don't know exactly what is going on with him.

Quote: What does it feel like with your T? When you're pushing her away, what are you thinking in that moment? What purpose is it serving for you?

Ha I wrote this to my T yesterday, this is how I feel: http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=242444

I want her to stop being so nice and get angry with me for all the **** I've done. I know she must be mad, but she just shrugs and smiles.

Originally Posted by blur

hi tc. it does sound like a difficult situation with babysitting this kid whose mom is ill. i do agree with sannah that he needs structure and for you to be control. i think you are confusing your adult relationship with your T with your babysitting relationship with this child. there are real differences here: with your T you are both adults but in babysitting you are dealing with a child, not an adult. that is a huge difference. the other major difference is that you are not a T but a babysitter. very different roles and being a T would require professional training anyway. letting this child be in control is quite unhealthy for the child and then when you "obey" him and then go back on that obedience by walking back in the room it is going to really confuse him. he needs consistency. when he starts to throw a tantrum i'd tell him he needs to be quiet because his sick mom is sleeping. if he wants you to leave the room patiently explain that you can't leave his presence but he can go play by himself on the opposite side of the room. good luck.

I rather agree about him controlling things, but that is what his parents do. Who am I to change the rules they raise him by?

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

I rather agree about him controlling things, but that is what his parents do. Who am I to change the rules they raise him by?

Teachers don't continue with dysfunctional parenting and neither do daycare workers. I don't know how many times I have heard a parent say that their child behaves great in daycare but not at home. It is the rules and the structure and the consequences.