[rainbow8]

I told my T about looking up her H on FB. She worked with the feelings using somatic experiencing. I was miserable because I was angry with her and with her H. I said I wanted to throw things at her or smash things. She said to close my eyes and imagine I was doing those things. Afterwards, I was still angry. I didn't know what to do.

She said she is not going to tell me anything about her H. I kept saying I was angry and she kept asking me if I remembered feeling that way in the past. I said that I hate being left out and I feel that way. I said it wasn't fair that she won't tell me anything. I said I don't trust her because her H seems so different from her. She asked if my H and I were different. That's the extent of discussing her H.

I know she has every right not to tell me anything but I just kept getting more angry. I said I want to throw something. So she said I could hit the pillow on the sofa, which I did, but that wasn't enough. I stood up and threw it on the floor a number of times. I still felt very angry!

She wanted to get me grounded, I guess, so she sat down next to me and had me hold one of her rocks. I said I wanted to hold her hand and she let me for a couple of minutes only. I started feeling depressed. I said that jealousy seems to be my topic now; I'm very jealous of others and feel I'm not as good as they are.

She said we will get back to these parts. I said she was being mean to me and she said she was sorry, that she wasn't trying to be mean. She said maybe I shouldn't go on FB at all. I was really angry but hugged her when I left anyway. I first asked if she still liked me and she said "yes".

I feel lousy. Still angry but more depressed now.
I wish I could email her. I feel so awful. Sad and depressed. I had things to do after my session but now I feel like crawling into a hole. I honestly don't know WHY I am so angry with my T and her H. It hurts very bad. How can I get through the week with no emailing when I'm so angry? I want to lash out and I don't know why.

I want to clarify that I'm not angry because my T won't tell me anything about her H. I mean, that's what it FEELS like, but I know that's not the real reason and that it's a lot deeper than that. It's not about her H. I know that!

[rainbow_rose]

....

[Setso]

Does H mean husband? Are you in love with your T?

I know it's hard and you probably feel very lonely and when you open up to your T and she talks you feel a connection in a state where you are already vulnerable,
But ya gotta understand she is married.
How would you feel if your wife was a T and all her clients were in love with her

I know being single hurts like hell, but hang in there, I believe every soul has a mate and if you don't get it in this life you will the next. And tbh maybe you would be better off with a male T
Personally I can open up better to make Ts cuz with female Ts I'm always thinking of them naked
Hang in there and please don't feel bad.
Your not alone no matter how lonely you feel, your always in good hands thy never let go

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wren_]

i know you know it
sometimes it's a thousand other things going on, but it all comes out as what looks like focus on one thing ... when really that's not it at all ... wish all this hurt less

[rainbow8]

I want to clarify, Setso, because you don't know me.

Originally Posted by Setso

Does H mean husband? YesAre you in love with your T? Maybe, but not exactly.

I know it's hard and you probably feel very lonely and when you open up to your T and she talks you feel a connection in a state where you are already vulnerable,
But ya gotta understand she is married.
How would you feel if your wife was a T and all her clients were in love with herIf my H were a T and his women clients were in love with him I would understand!

I know being single I've been married for years. I think some of my hurt is from the past, or maybe a lot of it is, and some is because of wishing my H were more like my T's H. I'm not really sure why it hurts so much. hurts like hell, but hang in there, I believe every soul has a mate and if you don't get it in this life you will the next. And tbh maybe you would be better off with a male T I'm not gay but have this problem with female Ts. I wonder how it would be if I had a male T. I always thought it would be worse.
Personally I can open up better to make Ts cuz with female Ts I'm always thinking of them naked
Hang in there and please don't feel bad.
Your not alone no matter how lonely you feel, your always in good hands thy never let go I appreciate your post. It doesn't matter that I'm not who you thought; what you said is true.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Setso]

Sorry for the miscommunication, I hope you find some peace
Sleep good tonight

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[autotelica]

What do you think her husband is like? And what from his FB would make you think he's this way?

Do you think your therapist was really being mean to you? What do you wish she had said that she didn't (other than spilling her beans)?

[ECHOES]

Maybe it's about more than just feeling angry. Maybe it's more about feeling angry *and* feeling like you aren't being listened to, which lead so feeling uncared for, rejected, and as if there is something 'wrong' with you because you feel angry.

Maybe you didn't get help with feeling angry when you were young, that you didn't 'know what to do' when feeling angry back then as well.
On the other hand, maybe feeling angry got you noticed and results when you were young; it had power to get things done. If being angry was the only time you were listened to, taken seriously, then you learned that anger had power. And it teaches a person to have unrealistic expectations about what anger can 'accomplish'. If anger is used in place of healthy communication, then I think it makes hearing a response of "No" much harder, if we have learned that anger gets results.

I think it also interferes with a person's opportunities to learn about Separateness. When you feel angry, there isn't anything you have 'to do'. Your anger can't make her dislike you (power), it can't make her tell you things she doesn't want to tell you (Separateness), and it can't demand comforting or comforting in a particular way (also Separateness). It is just a feeling, a powerful one for sure. There's more about this for you to discover by looking inside.

[rainbow8]

My T is calm, gentle, artistic, low-keyed, I guess you'd say. I can't think of the correct word. I know how she is because of her interests and from seeing her weekly for 90 minutes for more than 2 years. W once shared the music and movies we both like. Just from what I've seen on FB, her H is kind of wild, not in a bad way, but his lists of interests don't seem to mesh with my T at all. He has a strange sense of humor, it seems. They aren't kids, but he seems a little immature.

No, I know she wasn't being mean; she was being a competent T! I wish she would have answered me with something tangible like "yes, my H's into rock music or yes, he has a wild imagination". It bothers me not to know, and it bothers me that she will tell me about herself and something about her kids, but her H if always off-limits. Yes, I know she has every right to keep him private but it triggers me.

[Chopin99]

I hear you. It's very hard for me when I don't get what I want. I've made improvement in that area, but I've got a ways to go. Something about the intensity of your anger makes me think you might be getting somewhere. It's definitely not about T or her H. There's something from the past that's getting triggered by all this. I hope you keep making progress and start feeling better really soon!!

[unaluna]

Rain, have any of your T's ever been available? There's an old Groucho Marx joke about comedy, to the effect of, it has to be real to "take" or have an effect, that has made a difference this time around for me. If you know for sure nothing will ever happen, i'm afraid there is not enough tension to knock the truth out of you. It sounds like your T is slamming the door so tightly on her H, that you don't get the peek inside that would reveal whatever you are hiding.

I have had that "left out" conversation with my current T. So where did you leave off with her? Can you make a list of memories where you felt left out, and bring them in next time? I wonder if they are from different ages?

[adel34]

Hi Rainbow,
I'm so sorry you had a rough session today.
I know about the facebook thing with therapy from experience. I believe it was actually my therapist that friended me on facebook. I'd go on there and she'd be posting about her dog dying, or issues with her kids and stuff. I had to be the one to tell her that it wasn't approproiate for me to be on there reading all that. It was just too much, and not good boundaries. This was, btw , the woman who had me aprentcing with her at the same time as I was her client, had her teenage son totally involved in her work life, so there were some pritty significant ethical issues, the facebook thing just being a small thing in comparison.
So all that to say that my advice, from experience, would be to not go on facebook at all, your t's page, or husband's page or anyone that's related to her. It just does more harm than good in my oppinion. And I only say that because I've been there and learned the hard way! And the fact that she actually said maybe you shouldn't be on the FB page at all means she's a solid t.
I really hope this helps. I feel you about wanting to crawl into a hole. Can't wait for therapy tomorrow!

[~EnlightenMe~]

Ditto what Chopin said.

[Miswimmy1]

I agree with Chopin!

[KazzaX]

I just wanted to say "I hear ya" about wanting to punch your T!! I agree.. hitting pillows and holding rocks just doesn't cut it.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

My T is calm, gentle, artistic, low-keyed, I guess you'd say. I know how she is because of her interests and from seeing her weekly for 90 minutes for more than 2 years.

Just from what I've seen on FB, her H is kind of wild, not in a bad way, but his lists of interests don't seem to mesh with my T at all. He has a strange sense of humor, it seems. They aren't kids, but he seems a little immature.

As I'm sure you already recognize, you can't really get a sense of who someone is from a few details on facebook. It's impossible to tell whether he's actually immature or has a strange sense of humor. And, if they're married, T and her H must mesh in a number of ways that can't be seen on a FB profile.

I find it interesting though that you say in one post that you wish your H was more like her H... and then a few posts later, you paint a somewhat negative picture of T's H.

Of course, just as you can't really know what T's H is like from a few lines on FB, so you can't know enough about T's H to compare him to your H in any meaningful way. Yes, you can say from the picture that T's H is thinner... but that's not really a big enough reason to say her H is more appealing, is it?

You already know that these things are really about something deeper... and I'm curious to know more about what that is.

[Abby]

They always say that depression is anger turned inwards. I often wonder if it is as simplistic as that - yet I wonder if we become depressed because the anger isn't effective, we've learnt we can't yell and scream for forever and when we don't get the response we need we become overwhelmed by a sense of powerlessness. But then again I think the feeling of powerlessness can make a person angry too so I think it is complex!

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Maybe it's about more than just feeling angry. Maybe it's more about feeling angry *and* feeling like you aren't being listened to, which lead so feeling uncared for, rejected, and as if there is something 'wrong' with you because you feel angry. Maybe you didn't get help with feeling angry when you were young, that you didn't 'know what to do' when feeling angry back then as well.

I think it also interferes with a person's opportunities to learn about Separateness. When you feel angry, there isn't anything you have 'to do'. Your anger can't make her dislike you (power), it can't make her tell you things she doesn't want to tell you (Separateness), and it can't demand comforting or comforting in a particular way (also Separateness). It is just a feeling, a powerful one for sure. There's more about this for you to discover by looking inside.

This is really insightful. I get angry at my T but when she remains the same it makes me rage internally then it burns out into depression. I don't really know what the separateness concept is that you wrote about - could you explain this more? I wonder where someone gets the belief that if they yell loud enough they will get what they need when they don't have an experience of that ever happening? Do you think it is sometimes not a learned response but a big reaction to feeling 'left'?

Rainbow - I understand the anger. I wonder if the feelings of being 'left out' (however unmaliciously) touch on some painful beliefs inside? May be you have to know everything about your T and her family because otherwise it feels like you know nothing and that ruins any connection you do have? May be sub-consciously this makes you feel like you are nothing?

Rainbow....take some of that anger and use it for something constructive. Bake some cookies, or exercise or walk a dog or cry on your husbands shoulder. Your relationship with your T is a tense one and I can see when she tells you no, the little you gets pissed. its ok, i get it.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Maybe it's about more than just feeling angry. Maybe it's more about feeling angry *and* feeling like you aren't being listened to, which lead so feeling uncared for, rejected, and as if there is something 'wrong' with you because you feel angry.

Maybe you didn't get help with feeling angry when you were young, that you didn't 'know what to do' when feeling angry back then as well.
On the other hand, maybe feeling angry got you noticed and results when you were young; it had power to get things done. If being angry was the only time you were listened to, taken seriously, then you learned that anger had power. And it teaches a person to have unrealistic expectations about what anger can 'accomplish'. If anger is used in place of healthy communication, then I think it makes hearing a response of "No" much harder, if we have learned that anger gets results.

I think it also interferes with a person's opportunities to learn about Separateness. When you feel angry, there isn't anything you have 'to do'. Your anger can't make her dislike you (power), it can't make her tell you things she doesn't want to tell you (Separateness), and it can't demand comforting or comforting in a particular way (also Separateness). It is just a feeling, a powerful one for sure. There's more about this for you to discover by looking inside.

Thank you for your very perceptive comments, ECHOES. I'm not sure what fits yet. I just posted in the Wiki's thread about baby and childhood and that got me thinking. I was a "good" child. I don't think I showed my anger to outsiders; I barely talked to them. I didn't show anyone my feelings; I didn't even tell my mother how I felt inside. I was loud with my brother, though. I used to scream at him for his incessant teasing and hurting me. My parents punished him. We were playmates, though. I didn't feel too powerful as a child, though selective mutism does show a power over speech. I don't know. I can't figure myself out yet.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I hear you. It's very hard for me when I don't get what I want. I've made improvement in that area, but I've got a ways to go. Something about the intensity of your anger makes me think you might be getting somewhere. It's definitely not about T or her H. There's something from the past that's getting triggered by all this. I hope you keep making progress and start feeling better really soon!!

Thank you, Chopin. I agree about the intensity of my anger, and so does my T. She thinks it's from a young age because I want to smash and throw things. I don't know what it is, though. Maybe EMDR will help me find out, though she didn't suggest it last week. This just happened due to reading FB. Though I wasn't supposed to, maybe it was meant to be so I could address my anger! I do tend to express anger by throwing things or banging doors. Childish stuff.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by hankster

Rain, have any of your T's ever been available? There's an old Groucho Marx joke about comedy, to the effect of, it has to be real to "take" or have an effect, that has made a difference this time around for me. If you know for sure nothing will ever happen, i'm afraid there is not enough tension to knock the truth out of you. It sounds like your T is slamming the door so tightly on her H, that you don't get the peek inside that would reveal whatever you are hiding.

I have had that "left out" conversation with my current T. So where did you leave off with her? Can you make a list of memories where you felt left out, and bring them in next time? I wonder if they are from different ages?

Thanks, Hankster. Good points!
I don't understand whe you mean, "have any of your T's ever been available?" Available how? That is very interesting about "the peek inside to reveal what I'm hiding". It may just the fact that she IS hiding that antagonizes and angers me so much, though. But I don't know if it would help to know more about her H. It helps to know about her, though. My first T hardly told me anything about her and I struggled with that a lot. Memories of feeling left out. I do have a lot of them, starting when we used to watch our family movies and I cried when I saw the ones before I was born, with just my brother in them. I felt left out socially from about age 9 and up, until college when I finally had a boy-friend!

Originally Posted by adel34

Hi Rainbow,
I'm so sorry you had a rough session today.
I know about the facebook thing with therapy from experience. I believe it was actually my therapist that friended me on facebook. I'd go on there and she'd be posting about her dog dying, or issues with her kids and stuff. I had to be the one to tell her that it wasn't approproiate for me to be on there reading all that. It was just too much, and not good boundaries. This was, btw , the woman who had me aprentcing with her at the same time as I was her client, had her teenage son totally involved in her work life, so there were some pritty significant ethical issues, the facebook thing just being a small thing in comparison.
So all that to say that my advice, from experience, would be to not go on facebook at all, your t's page, or husband's page or anyone that's related to her. It just does more harm than good in my oppinion. And I only say that because I've been there and learned the hard way! And the fact that she actually said maybe you shouldn't be on the FB page at all means she's a solid t.
I really hope this helps. I feel you about wanting to crawl into a hole. Can't wait for therapy tomorrow!

You're right about Facebook. I don't even like it but friends and relatives are on it so once in a while I'm curious to see their photos, etc. Thanks for you input and understanding, Adel.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

Ditto what Chopin said.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Miswimmy1

I agree with Chopin!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by KazzaX

I just wanted to say "I hear ya" about wanting to punch your T!! I agree.. hitting pillows and holding rocks just doesn't cut it.

Thank you. Well, I like my T so I wouldn't really want to hurt her. It's confusing.

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

As I'm sure you already recognize, you can't really get a sense of who someone is from a few details on facebook. It's impossible to tell whether he's actually immature or has a strange sense of humor. And, if they're married, T and her H must mesh in a number of ways that can't be seen on a FB profile.
I know that.
I find it interesting though that you say in one post that you wish your H was more like her H... and then a few posts later, you paint a somewhat negative picture of T's H.
I think it's that T is more like me. Her H doesn't seem as refined maybe, as she is. But he's a guy, so I'm probably judging unfairly. I wish my H were thinner; the other stuff I don't know. I think it's something deeper than my T's husband's personality that bothers me anyway!
Of course, just as you can't really know what T's H is like from a few lines on FB, so you can't know enough about T's H to compare him to your H in any meaningful way. Yes, you can say from the picture that T's H is thinner... but that's not really a big enough reason to say her H is more appealing, is it?
No. I'm using twisted thinking, to apply CBT to it. You're 100% right.
You already know that these things are really about something deeper... and I'm curious to know more about what that is.

I'm curious too, and frustrated. I don't know what it is!!!

Originally Posted by Abby

They always say that depression is anger turned inwards. I often wonder if it is as simplistic as that - yet I wonder if we become depressed because the anger isn't effective, we've learnt we can't yell and scream for forever and when we don't get the response we need we become overwhelmed by a sense of powerlessness. But then again I think the feeling of powerlessness can make a person angry too so I think it is complex!
I agree. Thanks.

Rainbow - I understand the anger. I wonder if the feelings of being 'left out' (however unmaliciously) touch on some painful beliefs inside? May be you have to know everything about your T and her family because otherwise it feels like you know nothing and that ruins any connection you do have? May be sub-consciously this makes you feel like you are nothing?

Something seems to fit in what you wrote. I need to "know" about T in order to have the connection. I feel like I don't know her as well now that I see her H. But, it's strange. I had already seen a photo of him before yet it hit me NOW. I don't feel like I'm "nothing", but that I'm excluded.

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

Rainbow....take some of that anger and use it for something constructive. Bake some cookies, or exercise or walk a dog or cry on your husbands shoulder. Your relationship with your T is a tense one and I can see when she tells you no, the little you gets pissed. its ok, i get it.

Thanks, lola. I wish I could cry on my h's shoulder. He didn't understand about my session. He just asked me if I felt so angry why do I want to go back next week? He doesn't understand at all. I had yoga this morning and it helped. I am hurting but I also feel good, in a way, because my T is being strong. In the past she's changed her mind a lot but now she's not. Yet she's still just as compassionate, and still held my hand and hugged me yesterday. I will be strong too, and won't email or look at FB again. If I want to, I'll post in this forum and get help. My new plan. I'll stop myself. It's not FB that is so tempting; it's emailing my T--obsessing about the session. There's a lot to absorb and think about. I wish I had answers now!! LOL. I'm not very patient about myself or with others. I want the answers right away.

[rainbow8]

If you cared about me, you'd tell me......That sentence came to me just now. When my T went on vacation with her H one time, I told her I wanted to break down the door. Bedroom door? I wanted to come between them. I know it's the commonest kind of jealousy but maybe it's that simple. This angry child part doesn't want to share my T with someone else, especially someone she's closer to than she is to me. Forget the lack of logic to this; it's all feelings. Especially someone she is curious about but doesn't get to know anything about, is not told, and WILL not ever be told who is this person T lives with. How dare T not tell her? Not ME (I know better), but the child who wants to know, to be part of the couple?

But I don't remember being jealous of my parents, of my father paying attention to my Mom. Maybe when I was little I saw something that made me feel left out. I'll never know, though. I just know how hurt and angry I feel about this situation.

I always liked this play, Member of the Wedding, by Carson McCullers, where a 12 year old girl wants to be part of her brother's marriage. She thinks she is going to go with them, and it is so sad when they get married, and only then she realizes she is NOT going with them. I felt Frankie's pain when I read this in high school. But I don't know when I was left out, or where I got these feelings. They DO come from the past, though. I wanted to be included, but being so shy meant a lot of times I wasn't included. I know how I felt watching the movies that I wasn't in. I remember crying and asking my parents how come I wasn't in them. I didn't understand "not being born yet" so I must have been pretty young, 5 or 6.

I'm hoping something will click by writing this here. If anyone can help, please do.

[unaluna]

I love Member of the Wedding. I remember being confused by it, because I myself knew she would not be included, so how could she not know? I was in denial for her, that's how painful it was. Or how painful I would NOT let it be.

[2or3things]

[quote=rainbow8;2534157]If you cared about me, you'd tell me.....This angry child part doesn't want to share my T with someone else, especially someone she's closer to than she is to me..... How dare T not tell her? Not ME (I know better), but the child who wants to know, to be part of the couple?[quote]

I don't mean this in a critical way, Rainbow--I certainly know what this sort of thing feels like--but it does sound pretty childish. I think maybe you've mentioned "the parts running the show" before, and that sounds like what's happening here.

The interesting thing to me is that you clearly know that it's not functional thinking. (You point out that you know better than to demand that T tells you things about her H so you can feel closer.) Yet, you keep going down that path, even though it hurts and frustrates you every time.

So I'm wondering...what is it that you get out of repeating behavior that you know inflicts harm on you, makes your relationship with T more difficult, and seems wrong to your adult self? Is it that you believe that eventually she'll give in to your badgering and let you in? Something else? I understanding repeating old patterns when we're not aware, but why do you think you keep repeating them when you are?

I know it's not easy, and it sounds like trying to make a choice not to act on those urges. I applaud you for that. Still, doing something out of sheer will is really, really hard. I think if you can come to understanding of what you're getting out of maintining the status quo, you might find that change becomes at least a little easier.

Just my $0.02. Peace to you.

[rainbow8]

[quote=2or3things;2534380][quote=rainbow8;2534157]If you cared about me, you'd tell me.....This angry child part doesn't want to share my T with someone else, especially someone she's closer to than she is to me..... How dare T not tell her? Not ME (I know better), but the child who wants to know, to be part of the couple?

I don't mean this in a critical way, Rainbow--I certainly know what this sort of thing feels like--but it does sound pretty childish. I think maybe you've mentioned "the parts running the show" before, and that sounds like what's happening here.
Yes, the whole idea of IFS, Internal Systems Therapy, or even ANY therapy, is to heal those childish parts. That's what my T is trying to do. My former T wouldn't have anything to do with my "child parts" and I did not heal. Of course it's childish; it's from the past but affects me today. I want to get to the root of it, or at least heal from it. I know all therapy is different, but this is definitely not a case of not trying to change.
The interesting thing to me is that you clearly know that it's not functional thinking. (You point out that you know better than to demand that T tells you things about her H so you can feel closer.) Yet, you keep going down that path, even though it hurts and frustrates you every time.
The somatic experiencing and expressing the anger is something I've NEVER done in therapy before. It's not a repeat, by any means. My T is leading it/encouraging it.
So I'm wondering...what is it that you get out of repeating behavior that you know inflicts harm on you, makes your relationship with T more difficult, and seems wrong to your adult self? Is it that you believe that eventually she'll give in to your badgering and let you in? Something else? I understanding repeating old patterns when we're not aware, but why do you think you keep repeating them when you are?
I haven't expressed anger in this way with any T. Maybe a little bit leaked out, but not this. It's new. I am getting to the problem this time, though I don't quite know what it is yet. It's about the urges, but not just to stop them, but to understand them.
I know it's not easy, and it sounds like trying to make a choice not to act on those urges. I applaud you for that. Still, doing something out of sheer will is really, really hard. I think if you can come to understanding of what you're getting out of maintining the status quo, you might find that change becomes at least a little easier.
My therapy is about accepting, not judging, how my "parts" act. My T tells me that over and over. So, this is not the status quo right now. I'm working on this somatic experiencing, and also EMDR about my issues. I do appreciate what you're saying, and I get it, but the urge to do what I do is so strong, that simply stopping it isn't enough. I trust my T on this, and I feel good about the work I did yesterday, as hard as it was.
Just my $0.02. Peace to you.

Thank you!