[SallyBrown]

Trigger warning for suicide, and for therapy termination.



Have you ever been turned away by a T or ex-T when suicidal and unsafe? This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I realize I'm a pain in the a s s when I'm upset and that I had just sent him a couple of really angry e-mails a couple of days before, but it still hurts . I can't stop going over it in my head. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has felt the same way. And to get it out there, too, because I don't know how else I'm going to stop thinking about it.

[SoupDragon]

(((Sally Brown))) - I have never shared those thoughts with T so it has never arisen for me. I am sorry that you been turned away by your T at a time that sounds really difficult for you.

Soup

I am in a similar situation atm my T can't see me as I am being seen by the crisis team (was suicidal) (don't know what country you're from) but once I am discharged by them she can see me again.

I think it is unfair

I haven't ever had a T or pdoc turn me away when I was suicidal. On the contrary, they tend to go into full crisis management mode with me if I've gotten to that point.

[wotchermuggle]

I was wondering if anyone knows the rationale behind a therapist refusing to see you if you're getting help from a crisis team? Wouldn't someone who is already helping you be important to include in the process?

Originally Posted by wotchermuggle

I was wondering if anyone knows the rationale behind a therapist refusing to see you if you're getting help from a crisis team? Wouldn't someone who is already helping you be important to include in the process?

Sometimes it is a bureaucracy thing. If you are receiving government/social services, they won't pay for two different intervention modes at the same time. I'm assuming they consider that doubling up. It doesn't make any kind of therapeudic sense, but consider the source.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by wotchermuggle

I was wondering if anyone knows the rationale behind a therapist refusing to see you if you're getting help from a crisis team? Wouldn't someone who is already helping you be important to include in the process?

theres a saying around here where I live and work....too many hands in the pot ruins the stew..

what that means is if you have one treatment provider working on suicidal stuff trying to stabilize you and you have another treatment provider working with you on already established goals, the two conflicting processes (stabilizing / dig deeper / continue working ) can push the already suicidal person too far and they could end up succeeding in their suicidal efforts.

Therefore many treatment providers let the crisis team do the stabilizing and then once the client is stable again start working again on the pre established goals of digging into and solving their problems.

to answer the first poster yes I have been put on hold /turned away by my therapists when I was so unstable that I was suicidal.

here where I live and work it is standard rules that when someone is suicidal they be turned over to the local hospital's mental health unit for 72 hours so that an assessment can be made concerning their stability and ability to continue therapy in a safe, non suicidal, non self injurious way.

My own treatment provider and I have an emergency plan in place so that she can continue working with me through the stabilizing process. it involved alot of red tape, willingness to cooperate with any and all treatment options on my part, and lots of signing release of information forms so that all treatment providers involved with me have free access to my medical and mental health files and meetings are held to ensure all involved with my treatment are on the same page and working on the same treatment plans.

suggestion maybe you can ask your treatment providers for the same type of "wrap around" medical and mental health treatment plans for you.

Sally (((((HUGS)))))),
This is such an awful situation for you to be in, I was in same situation during the summer and it hurts like hell. Especailly when you have worked with T for a while and suddenly when you are at your lowest point they toss you away like a piece of trash
I wish i knew why but all I can say is that it says more about the therapist than us. I think my T was having some issues of her own and just couldn't help me anymore.
I hope you can find another T soon and stay safe until then.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

Trigger warning for suicide, and for therapy termination.



Have you ever been turned away by a T or ex-T when suicidal and unsafe? This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I realize I'm a pain in the a s s when I'm upset and that I had just sent him a couple of really angry e-mails a couple of days before, but it still hurts . I can't stop going over it in my head. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has felt the same way. And to get it out there, too, because I don't know how else I'm going to stop thinking about it.

I once phoned a suicide line late at night, got redirected to a home number, the person answered the phone, grunted and went back to sleep.

Sally, part of the problem, I think is that your T is so wrapped up in his own stuff that he is no longer thinking clearly or putting your needs first, or maybe isn't even really able to HEAR you. I am so sorry this has happened. Are you safe now? Can you start with the woman that you thought you might like?

[WikidPissah]

((homegirl))
I am so sorry. I haven't been turned away, but I have no where to turn. I am kind of teetering a bit right now, and no real T to call if I get into trouble. So I get the lonesomeness...and the pain of things not working out with a T that you've been with for a while. I go from hating XT, to wanting to call him, to sheer terror when I realize I have no T.

[Ike McCaslin]

So sorry Sally. I haven't been there. but I feel for you.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

Trigger warning for suicide, and for therapy termination.



Have you ever been turned away by a T or ex-T when suicidal and unsafe? This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I realize I'm a pain in the a s s when I'm upset and that I had just sent him a couple of really angry e-mails a couple of days before, but it still hurts . I can't stop going over it in my head. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has felt the same way. And to get it out there, too, because I don't know how else I'm going to stop thinking about it.

It is unethical to turn away a current client just because they are suicidal. You can file a complaint against them for that behavior.

New t's that you have not seen before have the right to choose not to see you, though if you are suicidal. What happened exactly with you?

[~EnlightenMe~]

((((Sally)))))),
I totally feel for you, as you know. I "feel" like I was turned down when I was feeling unsafe, even though I told xT and Pdoc that I was not suicidal, all they told me is that I need to get a new therapist. Trying to find a new therapist while traumatized is ungodly. I could barely function as it was. They kind of just talked with me a bit then it was goodbye. I felt like I wasn't worth saving and that I was just a crying nuisance.

Did you call your xT and tell him you were suicidal? Are you still? I am VERY concerned for you because I know your pain, and I know how suffocating it is and can be. I want to save you from going through all of this, and if I knew how, I would.

How is it going on the finding a new T front? Sally, my new T is awesome. I was in your place and thought that nobody could pull me out from the abyss. My newT told me that he considered being terminated from a T an emergency. I now see that I should have had a T immediately after termination in order to process everything. I suffered for quite a bit needlessly. Try to find a T that is suited to your needs. My newT's specialty is DID/trauma, but BPD is what I am and he seems to understand me anyway. I am finally feeling more grounded which will enable me to process everything that has gone on. When you can't process things, they seem to go round and round and never stop. I'm telling you about my newT in hopes that you will make it a priority to find a new T yourself. You deserve to feel safe

Keep posting your feelings, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Get them out of your head and onto a post We are all here for you and will hold up until you can find a new T. Please be good to yourself, and please PM if you need to. I am here for you, even if the therapy community isn't.

[likewater]

I go to clinic and if i'm suicidal my only option is go to er or call 911. I'm very sorry you were turned
away. If you need help please call 911 or go to er. They won't turn you away.

[WePow]

i am sorry you are hurting

[Chopin99]

I'm sorry this is happening to you, Sally. I don't have any advice, but I agree with MKAC, I think your xT is too wrapped up in himself to be helpful to you.

If it's any consolation, my T (none of the T's in the same practice actually) doesn't deal with suicide. She says if a client is suicidal, they recommend calling 911, going to the ER (which is what's going to happen if you call 911), or calling the local crisis line.

Many hugs, dear.

(((((((Sally))))))))

I haven't really been turned away when I was actively suicidal, but I have absolutely been turned away when I was in major crisis. It's got to be one of the worst feelings in the world to need help so badly and not be able to get it.

My T openly admits now that it was about him and not me. In some ways it doesn't help much to know that, because my brain goes to "well, what's wrong with ME, that your stuff could get so much bigger than the relationship we built?" But when I am in a more grounded place, I guess it helps a little to understand T's (crappy) limitations, and it does tell me that if things don't change then I DO need to find a new T.

Are you safe right now? I know how hard it is to be in that dark place. Please try to find some anchor in the light, because it won't always feel this bad. Be with H, get outside, post here, breathe, take action and call new Ts. Go to the hospital for help if you need to. You. Are. Worth. It.

[Anne2.0]

I am sorry that you are having this experience. I hope you can find a new T to help soon.

I think that the T logic, which isn't completely irrational, that once therapy has stopped and T no longer has regular contact so as to understand what's going on and the progression of things, intervention by former T might do more harm than good. Although T would be considered the expert for one's crisis while still in active therapy, I think that changes once therapy is over. Then a T might feel that it's best to let the crisis intervention experts treat. At least that's what my pals in clinical psych were taught and there were several instances while we were in school (I am not a psych) that reinforced that poor boundaries after termination was actually terrible for a client's well-being.

I realize that you probably already know this stuff, but maybe feeling that he is turning you away so that you can be more effectively helped rather than refusing to help you, is useful in some way.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

Have you ever been turned away by a T or ex-T when suicidal and unsafe?

By turned away, do you mean the T wouldn't give you an extra appointment that day? I think if I called my T and told him I was suicidal, he would probably get me to agree to call 911 or go to the ER right away. If I wouldn't agree, he would probably call someone and have them show up at my front door to take me to the ER. If I was suicidal, I don't think my T would give me an extra appointment, because I would need emergency services if I was suicidal. He would make sure I got that, though. I'm not sure why someone would call a former T if they were suicidal as they no longer have a treatment relationship? I think a person would call their current T. If I was a former client of my T and did call him, he has an answering message that gives information on who to call in an emergency, so I think that message would provide important information to anyone who called, whether current, prospective, or former client.

Sally, how are you feeling now? If you need help to be safe, please call 911 or your crisis line.

[Roukan]

Hey Sally,

I know what you mean, it always helps me to talk about things. Your T should never turn you away for any reason. Maybe you should get a different T. just sayin....

[SallyBrown]

Hey guys, thank you all for responding.

I'm doing slightly better today. I wouldn't call myself unsafe, but it's hard to explain. I don't feel like I'm bent on doing anything, but at the same time, I cannot stop thinking about it. Anytime my head is not filled with another thought, it comes to mind.

Here's roughly what happened:

I sort-of terminated with T in mid-September, but on the very last day he said a few things that made me doubt whether it was the right decision (it was not a mutual decision). He told me to take some time to think about it, and that he would always be willing and eager to revisit things and work things out.

A couple of weeks ago, after interviewing a few new Ts, I decided to check in with him to see if he'd given any thought to some of the stuff that had been going wrong between us. He pretty much said no (as in, he hadn't come up with anything to explain why things were going so badly, and had already rejected all of my potential explanations). I got angry and sent him an angry e-mail back, which I do regret. It wasn't anything unusual for an angry e-mail, but it was angry.

We spoke in person two days later. He said he didn't think it would be a good idea for us to meet regularly "for now", but that he would pursue setting up a formal consultation for us. So it's kind of hard to call him my "exT", but he's also not my "T". Does that make sense?

When we spoke, I told him I'd been suicidal and having a lot of intrusive thoughts of self-harm, although had managed not to hurt myself. He asked if I was safe, and I said I was probably safe in terms of suicide, but didn't really know what to say about self-harm, since I didn't see that as a matter of "safety".

But when I left, I felt terrible, and my mood just plummeted. I guess I was teetering on the edge to begin with. I don't know what would really have helped... but I guess that's why the only thing I could think to do was turn to T, I just didn't know how to help myself at that point because I hadn't picked up a new T yet.

I spent the next morning in tears wondering what to do, and feeling certain he would turn me away if I went to him for help, since he'd decided that it was no longer helpful for us to meet up. It was really hard to match that up with what he'd said two weeks before, about always loving and caring for me, and always being happy to have me come back whether in two weeks or two years. It was a rough morning.

In realizing that I could no longer turn to him in an emergency, yet we were at the same time pursuing this consulting thing, I just felt like the whole thing made no sense. So I e-mailed him to say just that: that in the previous 24 hours I had gone from semi-safe to "definitely not safe", and that realizing that he probably wasn't going to help if I reached out was killing me, and maybe this whole consulting thing was a bad idea and I should leave him alone. It was a little all over the place because... well... when you're suicidal and not terribly safe (I don't want to go into details because I don't want to violate the rules of this board) it's hard to think clearly.

He wrote back a very short response, and he addressed my suicidality as follows:

I don't think it's a good idea for me to be involved in supporting you right now. While it might help in the short term, I think it would ultimately make things worse.

We had talked before about referrals -- I told him well before I "terminated" that I was frustrated that he hadn't provided any, as it seemed kind of like the responsible thing to do. He made some lame excuses... I think he was hurt that I'd gone to pdoc for referrals instead of him. I told him why I'd done that (it was for practical reasons, mostly). I don't remember where we left it after that, I mostly just remember the lame excuses.

I managed to get through the few days after that. About a week later he wrote to me to tell update me on the consultation situation (he has a colleague who is willing to do it, but isn't available for a few weeks). At the same time I'd been thinking about what had gone wrong between us and come to the conclusion that consultation was unlikely to help. So I wrote to him to let him know this, because I didn't want him to waste his time trying to wrangle his colleague. Plus the stuff I'd written before, about how it was just confusing to have him still be sort of there, sort of not, and that that this confusion turns into really awful feelings when my mood takes a dive.

So we're supposed to talk next Tuesday about that. It's going to be really hard to talk to him without talking about my feelings and seeking support, but I'm going to try to keep it to just explaining my thoughts on the consultation.

In the meantime, this has kind of created a feedback loop in my head. My mood will plummet, I will think about suicide and self-harm nonstop, and the first person I think to call is T, then I remember what he said about not supporting me, then I feel like dying, then I think of calling T, then I remember what he said... it's very hard to break the loop.

A couple days ago -- and I have no idea why this did not occur to me before -- I realized that perhaps I should be figuring out if going to the hospital is the right thing, and if so, when. It's frustrating to me that T made no suggestion of which hospital to go to or who to see that he knows or whatever. It's not that I can't think of these things on my own, it's just really disappointing in retrospect that it was never suggested.

I see my pdoc tomorrow for a regular check-in. Going to talk about upping one of my meds, and ask her about hospitalization -- what to do, where to go, etc. (I live in an area with LOTS of hospitals, including a psychiatric hospital, but I'm not sure if I should go directly there or somewhere else). Anyway I want to get all this information and keep it for me and my H when I'm not able to think straight and need to talk to an expert as soon as possible.

MKAC: I think I am just going to see the T that I like who does not take my insurance for now. I need to get more referrals... ugh, that's a whole other story, I e-mailed almost-ex-T to ask then was like WAIT BAD IDEA and immediately told him to ignore that, forget about it, it was wrong of me to ask when he didn't want to get involved. I so didn't need to hear more words of rejection. But one of the new Ts I saw before offered to give me more, so I will e-mail/call him and ask. Still, I kind of just need someone to talk to, and even though she's expensive, I just don't have many options.

I'm so sorry to those of you who know this feeling. It's horrible . But I do feel less alone reading your stories.

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

(((Sally Brown))) - I have never shared those thoughts with T so it has never arisen for me. I am sorry that you been turned away by your T at a time that sounds really difficult for you.

Soup

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell..

I am in a similar situation atm my T can't see me as I am being seen by the crisis team (was suicidal) (don't know what country you're from) but once I am discharged by them she can see me again.

I think it is unfair

Originally Posted by button30

Sally (((((HUGS)))))),
This is such an awful situation for you to be in, I was in same situation during the summer and it hurts like hell. Especailly when you have worked with T for a while and suddenly when you are at your lowest point they toss you away like a piece of trash
I wish i knew why but all I can say is that it says more about the therapist than us. I think my T was having some issues of her own and just couldn't help me anymore.
I hope you can find another T soon and stay safe until then.

Thank you all! Button, thanks for being able to relate, although simultaneously it's very sad . Tinkerbell, I'm in the US, and I don't think we have that same rule here. I guess I've always I assumed I didn't need a crisis management team or hospitalization (that assumption itself is probably a good therapy topic...), and so I didn't seek one. But I'm beginning to see that it may be necessary and in fact helpful. My almost-ex-T doesn't want to be involved either way, so for me it's not a choice between one or the other. I hope you get to see your T soon.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I once phoned a suicide line late at night, got redirected to a home number, the person answered the phone, grunted and went back to sleep.

That. Is. HORRIBLE. I'm so sorry you went through that but very glad you managed to get through in spite of it.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Sally, part of the problem, I think is that your T is so wrapped up in his own stuff that he is no longer thinking clearly or putting your needs first, or maybe isn't even really able to HEAR you. I am so sorry this has happened. Are you safe now? Can you start with the woman that you thought you might like?

I addressed this previously, but I just wanted to say . It's hard for me to know what's going on with him. I do get the theory/logic behind his not wanting to help, but it's very hard when that boundary gets put up after the fact (and, incidentally, right when things are at their worst). I can't tell if I should feel guilty for relying on him after wanting to terminate... but then that's complicated by the fact that he refused to listen to my reasons for leaving until the last couple of session, which introduced the doubts about termination into my mind... which is then complicated by the fact that initially, I was feeling better in some ways after termination... but then I guess that also doesn't invalidate how bad I was feeling later on. I don't know. I'm so confused.

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by WikidPissah

((homegirl))
I am so sorry. I haven't been turned away, but I have no where to turn. I am kind of teetering a bit right now, and no real T to call if I get into trouble. So I get the lonesomeness...and the pain of things not working out with a T that you've been with for a while. I go from hating XT, to wanting to call him, to sheer terror when I realize I have no T.

Wiki, this is exactly how I feel.

Originally Posted by Ike McCaslin

So sorry Sally. I haven't been there. but I feel for you.

Thanks Ike, I appreciate that.

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

It is unethical to turn away a current client just because they are suicidal. You can file a complaint against them for that behavior.

New t's that you have not seen before have the right to choose not to see you, though if you are suicidal. What happened exactly with you?

Hey TC, I hope my explanation of what happened is clarifying. There's a lot of gray areas here. I did tell him I was leaving. But he did tell me I could always come back. Although then when I kind of did, he told me not to come back BUT we'd get a consultation. I saw him for 5 years, and it was two weeks after a tearful "last session" that I told him I was suicidal and not safe. Not responding even with a phone number to call for someone/someplace that COULD help seems unethical to me, but I don't know what the standard is around here. It's very murky. We did sort of "terminate", and although he left it open, he could always deny that he'd left it open and told me to come back whenever. I do think that in my state he's ethically bound to help me for up to 30 days post-termination, but I'm no expert in that area. I also feel like I probably could have asked him for that information, although to be honest I couldn't tell you exactly why I didn't... my head was all over the place that day.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

((((Sally)))))),
I totally feel for you, as you know. I "feel" like I was turned down when I was feeling unsafe, even though I told xT and Pdoc that I was not suicidal, all they told me is that I need to get a new therapist. Trying to find a new therapist while traumatized is ungodly. I could barely function as it was. They kind of just talked with me a bit then it was goodbye. I felt like I wasn't worth saving and that I was just a crying nuisance.

Did you call your xT and tell him you were suicidal? Are you still? I am VERY concerned for you because I know your pain, and I know how suffocating it is and can be. I want to save you from going through all of this, and if I knew how, I would.

How is it going on the finding a new T front? Sally, my new T is awesome. I was in your place and thought that nobody could pull me out from the abyss. My newT told me that he considered being terminated from a T an emergency. I now see that I should have had a T immediately after termination in order to process everything. I suffered for quite a bit needlessly. Try to find a T that is suited to your needs. My newT's specialty is DID/trauma, but BPD is what I am and he seems to understand me anyway. I am finally feeling more grounded which will enable me to process everything that has gone on. When you can't process things, they seem to go round and round and never stop. I'm telling you about my newT in hopes that you will make it a priority to find a new T yourself. You deserve to feel safe

Keep posting your feelings, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Get them out of your head and onto a post We are all here for you and will hold up until you can find a new T. Please be good to yourself, and please PM if you need to. I am here for you, even if the therapy community isn't.

Thank you Antimatter, this is really helpful to me and gives me a little hope. Finding the new T is slow, and as we all know, the cruel irony of depression is that I have been slow to progress because I have been... too depressed to do anything. But I'm pushing forward. Trying to do one little thing every day in that direction.

I did explain lots of stuff in the previous post, but yes, I did tell T I was suicidal but probably safe the day before, then amended that when my mood feel to "definitely not safe". So it was very clear. Never told him I was "not safe" before because I was afraid he would call 911 on me, but I figured I had nothing to lose by saying it directly this time... and I didn't.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I'm sorry this is happening to you, Sally. I don't have any advice, but I agree with MKAC, I think your xT is too wrapped up in himself to be helpful to you.

If it's any consolation, my T (none of the T's in the same practice actually) doesn't deal with suicide. She says if a client is suicidal, they recommend calling 911, going to the ER (which is what's going to happen if you call 911), or calling the local crisis line.

Many hugs, dear.

Thanks Chopin . Yeah, my T always told me to call him if that situation arose. I do know some T's make it a policy not to deal with suicide. I don't think I'd like that so much, but it's good that it's a straightforward policy that isn't subject to sudden change.

Originally Posted by nightsky

(((((((Sally))))))))

I haven't really been turned away when I was actively suicidal, but I have absolutely been turned away when I was in major crisis. It's got to be one of the worst feelings in the world to need help so badly and not be able to get it.

My T openly admits now that it was about him and not me. In some ways it doesn't help much to know that, because my brain goes to "well, what's wrong with ME, that your stuff could get so much bigger than the relationship we built?" But when I am in a more grounded place, I guess it helps a little to understand T's (crappy) limitations, and it does tell me that if things don't change then I DO need to find a new T.

Are you safe right now? I know how hard it is to be in that dark place. Please try to find some anchor in the light, because it won't always feel this bad. Be with H, get outside, post here, breathe, take action and call new Ts. Go to the hospital for help if you need to. You. Are. Worth. It.

Nightsky, this brings tears to my eyes. Thanks. I'm going to read this over and over again. I think I'm fairly safe right now, mostly just suffering from repetitive and intrusive thoughts, which is stressful and upsetting and sometimes overwhelming, but I keep reminding myself I see pdoc tomorrow and she might be able to help. I know you know the feeling like you literally can't take it anymore, and I appreciate your responding here.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I am sorry that you are having this experience. I hope you can find a new T to help soon.

I think that the T logic, which isn't completely irrational, that once therapy has stopped and T no longer has regular contact so as to understand what's going on and the progression of things, intervention by former T might do more harm than good. Although T would be considered the expert for one's crisis while still in active therapy, I think that changes once therapy is over. Then a T might feel that it's best to let the crisis intervention experts treat. At least that's what my pals in clinical psych were taught and there were several instances while we were in school (I am not a psych) that reinforced that poor boundaries after termination was actually terrible for a client's well-being.

I realize that you probably already know this stuff, but maybe feeling that he is turning you away so that you can be more effectively helped rather than refusing to help you, is useful in some way.

Thanks, Anne. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of gray area here, and I think you're correct to point to boundaries. While it might have hurt more for him to say, when I left, that unless I decided to come back as a client, our relationship was over, it might not be so messy now. I feel a little stupid and selfish for taking so much to heart that I could go back to him at any time.

I do know that his logic now is that since we seem to fight a lot, he shouldn't help me. I do think this makes sense when it comes to seeing each other on a regular basis. I have a hard time when it's an emergency. I think it probably doesn't help that this boundary got thrown up right as an emergency was unfolding. It's all a mess. I think what would have been helpful would be for me to ask him where SHOULD I go because it's an emergency, and as I said to TC, I'm not totally sure why I didn't say that. I do think it occurred to me. Perhaps because I was so certain he wouldn't even tell me that? Not sure. Anyway now that I'm in a better state of mind I need to figure that stuff out.

Originally Posted by sunrise

By turned away, do you mean the T wouldn't give you an extra appointment that day? I think if I called my T and told him I was suicidal, he would probably get me to agree to call 911 or go to the ER right away. If I wouldn't agree, he would probably call someone and have them show up at my front door to take me to the ER. If I was suicidal, I don't think my T would give me an extra appointment, because I would need emergency services if I was suicidal. He would make sure I got that, though. I'm not sure why someone would call a former T if they were suicidal as they no longer have a treatment relationship? I think a person would call their current T. If I was a former client of my T and did call him, he has an answering message that gives information on who to call in an emergency, so I think that message would provide important information to anyone who called, whether current, prospective, or former client.

Sally, how are you feeling now? If you need help to be safe, please call 911 or your crisis line.

Thanks sunrise. Feeling a little better now. Hopefully my explanation above is helpful for why I would have called a sort-of-former T. I don't have a current T, and I really wish I had stuck it out with sort-of-former T until I had an established relationship with a new one, for situations exactly like this one.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

It is unethical to turn away a current client just because they are suicidal. You can file a complaint against them for that behavior.

New t's that you have not seen before have the right to choose not to see you, though if you are suicidal. What happened exactly with you?

It may be unethical where you are for mental health treatment providers to not treat suicidal people on out patient basis but here in NY where we have zero tolerance laws since 9/11 it is ***not*** unethical for mental health treatment providers to refuse out patient treatment with a suicidal person.

here in New York United States of America we now have state justice laws and mental health ethics that tell us if we encounter someone who is suicidal or any other danger to their self or others to assess whether or not the person is serious in their threat/thoughts of suicide. if we feel they may harm their self or others, or are unable to ascertain whether their thoughts and threats of suicide are of the nature that they may do so, we can not treat them through out patient means. we must hospitalize them for 72 hours in a state mental hospital or the local hospitals mental health unit. this way they are in an environment that is able evaluate whether they really are a danger to their self and others and get them stabilized.

to give you an example why these laws and ethics are in place last Wensday we had a client who said they were having suicidal thoughts.. outward appearance showed no real threat, just statements to her therapist that she felt like she wanted to die. if we had gone on the pre 9/11 ethics of not doing out patient treatment, many people could have been harmed. the whole time the person was sitting in the lobby she was holding a knife, and a small homemade bomb, (it wouldnt have done any mass damage but would have effectively taken out herself and a therapist alone in a room) in her pockets and had taken enough pills to succeed in carrying out her suicidal thoughts. the police were able to disarm her and get her to the hospital in time to prevent anyone here at the crisis center from getting hurt and saved her life.

yes this is a rare case but since 9/11 new york takes very seriously any threats /thoughts of suicide. we dont treat them with out patient services here where I live and work.

I do know some therapists that have the option to work out individualized out patient treatment with their clients that they know are at risk but also know that client can be helped out patient with out harm to the therapist, client or others. But here where I live and work we dont, our agency follows the state laws and mental health ethics for zero tolerance. we have had many complaints and the ethics board has always upheld our standards and stated we are not doing anything wrong by not treating suicidals with out patient services.