[~EnlightenMe~]

I have really started to be more consistently grounded about my xT, there are still downs, but fewer of them. I really was grieving the loss yesterday. It is good in a way, but I am confused about a part of it and hope someone can help me figure this out.

I was crying/upset that I am never going to see him again, and I really, really wanted so badly just to hear his voice again. I wanted so badly just to go back to the time when I felt like we had a really good bond before things went straight downhill. I felt this way, also, when grieving both of my parents passed away a few years ago. However, when I was upset and feeling this way about my xT, it was coupled with the thought/feeling of how can someone who promised never to leave, someone who really cared about me (on a therapist level), how could this person push to end the relationship and then leave without giving me a chance to resolve things? BUT these thoughts didn't produce anger, they produced intense, intense sadness, devastation and tears. I guess my anger in relation to these thoughts was protecting me from feeling so devastated, abandoned, confused, and completely helpless. My reaction to this was kind of inline with self-hatred, but it wasn't self-hatred, because I didn't feel anger or hate. I felt an intense sadness that I wasn't important enough, good enough, or smart enough for my xT to really care about me. I felt intense sadness that I felt that my absence was a relief to him, and that I wasn't able to be nonclingy enough, I wasn't able (or even worse, willing) to control being burdonsome, that I should have been different, and that is why he left. I also am intensely saddened that I am not but a speck on the periphery of his existence. I am forgettable. It is very difficult to stomach being me, and it is devastating that I can't be someone else. The rage and anger felt more powerful. This is devastating.

I still have hope. I am not in a bad place or a danger to myself. I'm not feeling self-hatred, just sadness at not living up to anyone's expectations. I am somewhat grounded, surprisingly. My newT will be back on Wed., but I was fine without him. Thanks to all for helping me through this situation. I am thankful for the people here on PC I am thankful for my family.

When Miswimmy posted about her intense need/feeling to contact her therapist, I responded with complete acceptance of how she was feeling. I admit to being triggered by posts that suggest she do this on her own/use self care and now I understand why. I was needy/dependent with my xT and I did feel compelled to contact him, and did feel like I was unable to control it, especially during the last months of therapy when I felt him pulling away. I do respect what others have posted, truly. Truly.

I also love what I posted to her. I was really trying to help her, but I didn't realize was that I was also speaking to myself. I am proud of what I posted, because I was trying to love myself, to heal myself, and accept who I was at the time, and who I am now. In order for me to move past this traumatic termination, I have to accept that I did the best that I could at the time, because if I don't, I will carry the intense shame of being needy which I carried at the time. My xT was wonderful, but he also had issues with his own neediness and I suspect that this one part of our relationship that intensified my neediness. Maybe this is why he wanted to terminate. or maybe it was me, I don't know.

My newT left for a week, and I've been okay. He is able to accept my neediness and my emotions. I have told him that I'm afraid of becoming dependent on him, and he told me, basically, that he wasn't sure if I would be able to not become dependent on him. This is SO what I need. I did leave a session feeling needy/dependent and worked through it myself. I told him the next week, and he is helping me understand why I am this way instead of reacting to me being this way. (To be fair to xT, he hasn't experienced the real needy me, and hopefully, he won't-but he probably will). I think I will be at a place where I can use distraction/self-care skills but I'm not sure. My tendency is to be afraid of this, but I am going to accept it as it is. My issues with OCD, I think, contribute to this. If I try to control my neediness through my thinking that I can do things to lessen it, it only serves to escalate my neediness. When I think that I should not depend on my therapist (which I don't think is good), but, if I think this, I automatically try to control myself, and I feel shame if I am not successful, so I guess that is why I am the way I am.

I totally did NOT expect to be where I am right now when I started writing this. These are my thoughts by the moment. Thanks for listening.

((((((((AM))))))))

I just want to thank you for sharing your feelings, thoughts, and experiences with us as you move through this.

This year, I experienced a little bit of what you're going through...T and I had a truly devastating rupture, and the T I knew disappeared and was replaced by someone who wasn't willing/able to connect with me. I thought that it was the end and I was going to have to learn to move on without him, but a series of events brought us back together and I think we're moving forward and finding our way back to each other.

But for a time, I experienced that devastation, and it just felt almost surreal and unbelievable...that this person who said he'd never give up on me, who promised he would always be there, just kind of vanished. It was SO incredibly painful.

So I think I really get how huge it is that you're moving through so many big feelings...anger, devastation, grief, loss...and finding a way to do it that is so respectful to you and has a gentleness and understanding to it alongside all of the big feelings. The honesty in your posts is moving, and helpful, and shows me that we CAN make it through something so devastating...that it will take time, and it will hurt and it won't easy, but that there is a way to the other side.

Sending you tons of

[SallyBrown]

Sometimes it feels like you are reading my mind.

I've been feeling something like this, today. I just felt like I wanted to talk to my old T. I didn't want to re-hash what happened, didn't want to try to get him to take some responsibility, didn't want to fix anything. I just miss the space he used to occupy in my life, and the good things about our relationship. It made me really sad.

One thing that I did realize, though, was that even through my feeling absolutely awful for a couple of weeks there, for the first time, I wasn't feeling the kind of self-hate I used to feel, that I don't deserve to be here and people would be happier with me gone, that T should never have had to put up with me, etc. I actually turned my anger outward instead of inward. That's such huge progress... it also makes me sad that I can't stay with the person who helped me make this progress... but it was really, really important. I think it helped me recover faster than I would have otherwise.

So I hope you can find a way to accept how you were feeling at the time, and the way you responded to those feelings. You didn't do anything wrong. But it does seem horribly unfair that things didn't work out, that your xT didn't handle your feelings the way he was supposed to. I wish it had gone differently . Remember, you have no idea how he feels about your termination. He could himself feel very sad. You are placing yourself as a speck on the periphery of his existence because that's how you feel about yourself... I doubt it's how he feels about you. I hope you and your new T can work on getting you to a better place, where you can value yourself much more than you do now

[Wren_]

(((((antimatter))))) I like seeing some of the things you've been posting lately as well ; it keeps reflecting the progress you make as you've been processing things even while also helping out others with your responses and suggestions. it's interesting to read about xt's own neediness; something we don't think much about perhaps. I'm glad your new t seems to have a good understanding of where you are and what you need and will help you with walking through your grief; as bring here will I hope also

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

I felt an intense sadness that I wasn't important enough, good enough, or smart enough for my xT to really care about me.

. . . .

In order for me to move past this traumatic termination, I have to accept that I did the best that I could at the time, because if I don't, I will carry the intense shame of being needy which I carried at the time.

It seems to me that you've got a narrative, or a script, about yourself that keeps playing in your head over and over. The story you tell yourself, which is the only story that really matters, is that you were too *much* for your T (or not enough, depending on whether you are using negative or positive attributes). You have understood what happened as entirely about you and what's wrong with you. And while it's always good to look at whatever piece of anything we possibly can, I think that at least part of what happened in the termination was that your T reached the limits of what he was able to do professionally. That it was his deficiency, not yours, that led to the termination. That he was not able to help you because of his own professional limits, that he couldn't understand you well enough, that he couldn't work with you positively.

I have also gotten the impression, and I could certainly be wrong, that the story HE tells himself is that you quit, not that he terminated you. If you just follow that for one moment, you could see how his belief that you rejected him and his help could spiral into changes in his behavior towards you that could definitely make you react in ways that made you more "clingy."

I guess I'm saying that the story is not just one of your failures, but also his failures as well. It's not that just about you, or maybe it's not even about you at all. Because how other people react and respond to you is always at least partly determined by what THEY are able to do, the energy and love and attention that THEY are able to give, not what YOU are worthy of. This is something I have struggled with for most of my life, wondering why I wasn't good enough to be protected by my mother-- why she didn't care enough about me, why I wasn't worthy of being protected, ad nauseum. And then I understood that it just wasn't about me, but about what she was able and not able to do.

On the second thought you shared, there is not a thing wrong with your perspective on one's ability to control "bad" behavior in our past-- with the emphasis on "bad" meaning anything dysfunctional and that we are aware is not what we should be doing. It seems really obvious to me that of course we cannot control ourselves from engaging in repeated patterns that we are intellectually aware are not good, or we would have controlled them. If we could have done differently, we would have.

I think that this is different than assigning responsibility for controlling one's dysfunctionality in the future, though. Just because we lacked the ability to control in the past does not mean that we will always have this lacking in the future. I think there's a danger in believing that we are helpless to change in the future and accepting that we could not have done differently in the past. You can both accept and not blame yourself for past behavior while choosing to do differently in the future, and recognizing that choice and self control are possible at some point.

[Miswimmy1]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

When Miswimmy posted about her intense need/feeling to contact her therapist, I responded with complete acceptance of how she was feeling. I admit to being triggered by posts that suggest she do this on her own/use self care and now I understand why. I was needy/dependent with my xT and I did feel compelled to contact him, and did feel like I was unable to control it, especially during the last months of therapy when I felt him pulling away. I do respect what others have posted, truly. Truly.

I also love what I posted to her. I was really trying to help her, but I didn't realize was that I was also speaking to myself. I am proud of what I posted, because I was trying to love myself, to heal myself, and accept who I was at the time, and who I am now. In order for me to move past this traumatic termination, I have to accept that I did the best that I could at the time, because if I don't, I will carry the intense shame of being needy which I carried at the time. My xT was wonderful, but he also had issues with his own neediness and I suspect that this one part of our relationship that intensified my neediness. Maybe this is why he wanted to terminate. or maybe it was me, I don't know.

im sry that i triggered you...

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by nightsky

((((((((AM))))))))

I just want to thank you for sharing your feelings, thoughts, and experiences with us as you move through this.

This year, I experienced a little bit of what you're going through...T and I had a truly devastating rupture, and the T I knew disappeared and was replaced by someone who wasn't willing/able to connect with me. I thought that it was the end and I was going to have to learn to move on without him, but a series of events brought us back together and I think we're moving forward and finding our way back to each other.

But for a time, I experienced that devastation, and it just felt almost surreal and unbelievable...that this person who said he'd never give up on me, who promised he would always be there, just kind of vanished. It was SO incredibly painful.

So I think I really get how huge it is that you're moving through so many big feelings...anger, devastation, grief, loss...and finding a way to do it that is so respectful to you and has a gentleness and understanding to it alongside all of the big feelings. The honesty in your posts is moving, and helpful, and shows me that we CAN make it through something so devastating...that it will take time, and it will hurt and it won't easy, but that there is a way to the other side.

Sending you tons of

Thanks so much for your reply. I'm sorry you had to go through this with your T also, but am glad that you two were able to work it out.

I do hope my posts are helping others going through this, at least helpin them not feel alone. Sometimes after I post, though, I feel vulnerable and wonder if I should have said so much. But then, I get over that feeling. I am looking forward to seeing the way to the other side. take care

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

Sometimes it feels like you are reading my mind.
I've been feeling something like this, today. I just felt like I wanted to talk to my old T. I didn't want to re-hash what happened, didn't want to try to get him to take some responsibility, didn't want to fix anything. I just miss the space he used to occupy in my life, and the good things about our relationship. It made me really sad.
One thing that I did realize, though, was that even through my feeling absolutely awful for a couple of weeks there, for the first time, I wasn't feeling the kind of self-hate I used to feel, that I don't deserve to be here and people would be happier with me gone, that T should never have had to put up with me, etc. I actually turned my anger outward instead of inward. That's such huge progress... it also makes me sad that I can't stay with the person who helped me make this progress... but it was really, really important. I think it helped me recover faster than I would have otherwise.

So I hope you can find a way to accept how you were feeling at the time, and the way you responded to those feelings. You didn't do anything wrong. But it does seem horribly unfair that things didn't work out, that your xT didn't handle your feelings the way he was supposed to. I wish it had gone differently . Remember, you have no idea how he feels about your termination. He could himself feel very sad. You are placing yourself as a speck on the periphery of his existence because that's how you feel about yourself... I doubt it's how he feels about you. I hope you and your new T can work on getting you to a better place, where you can value yourself much more than you do now

I also identify with your posts, and they help me alot! I also miss the space xT used to occupy, thanks for putting that feeling into words for me sometimes it is difficult to articulate how I feel. I seem to go back and forth between turning the anger inward and then turning it outward. It is getting less intense and frequent, thank goodness. Missing the space he used to occupy is also difficult, and that is kind of where I'm at.
Thanks for saying I didn't do anything wrong, because I struggle with that. My post kind of was me realizing that I do need to accept that I did the best I could, but realizing it and doing it are two different things. I still have work to do.
I hear what you saying that I don't know how he feels. I have a very fragmented ego and even in everyday life I don't have a coherent self. I feel like who I am is how I react to whomever is around me sometimes and I feel very empty. I don't know how he feels, but since he won't tell me how he feels, I don't know how to process that. It's like I need to know what happened in order to process and file it away in my brain. My new T did say before he left that working on my sense of self basically is a good goal.
I look forward to the day when every day isn't a struggle mentally but wonder if it will ever come. Thanks for your reply. I hope you are doing well in your termination recovery

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

It seems to me that you've got a narrative, or a script, about yourself that keeps playing in your head over and over. The story you tell yourself, which is the only story that really matters, is that you were too *much* for your T (or not enough, depending on whether you are using negative or positive attributes). You have understood what happened as entirely about you and what's wrong with you. And while it's always good to look at whatever piece of anything we possibly can, I think that at least part of what happened in the termination was that your T reached the limits of what he was able to do professionally. That it was his deficiency, not yours, that led to the termination. That he was not able to help you because of his own professional limits, that he couldn't understand you well enough, that he couldn't work with you positively.

I have also gotten the impression, and I could certainly be wrong, that the story HE tells himself is that you quit, not that he terminated you. If you just follow that for one moment, you could see how his belief that you rejected him and his help could spiral into changes in his behavior towards you that could definitely make you react in ways that made you more "clingy."

I guess I'm saying that the story is not just one of your failures, but also his failures as well. It's not that just about you, or maybe it's not even about you at all. Because how other people react and respond to you is always at least partly determined by what THEY are able to do, the energy and love and attention that THEY are able to give, not what YOU are worthy of. This is something I have struggled with for most of my life, wondering why I wasn't good enough to be protected by my mother-- why she didn't care enough about me, why I wasn't worthy of being protected, ad nauseum. And then I understood that it just wasn't about me, but about what she was able and not able to do.

On the second thought you shared, there is not a thing wrong with your perspective on one's ability to control "bad" behavior in our past-- with the emphasis on "bad" meaning anything dysfunctional and that we are aware is not what we should be doing. It seems really obvious to me that of course we cannot control ourselves from engaging in repeated patterns that we are intellectually aware are not good, or we would have controlled them. If we could have done differently, we would have.

I think that this is different than assigning responsibility for controlling one's dysfunctionality in the future, though. Just because we lacked the ability to control in the past does not mean that we will always have this lacking in the future. I think there's a danger in believing that we are helpless to change in the future and accepting that we could not have done differently in the past. You can both accept and not blame yourself for past behavior while choosing to do differently in the future, and recognizing that choice and self control are possible at some point.

Thank you for your reply You are right that I sometimes think that the termination was entirely about me, but that is when I'm turning the hatred inward. When I turn the anger outward, I usually put most of the blame on him. I do intellectually understand that the real truth is somewhere in the middle, but I can't seem to integrate the two parts of me yet to get to that point.

I've gotta say, I think it was profound and enlightening when you said the story he tells himself is that I quit and that he then felt rejected, and that explains his behavior afterward. Of course, I don't know, but from what I've posted this really seems valid. This has really helped me process that part of it, which is the trouble I'm having. It's hard to process something when you don't know what happened, so I think that's why I'm guessing.

It was also really helpful when you spoke about how people react to me is not a sign of what I'm worth. This is something I struggle with daily, and it is something I am going to work on with my new therapist. I would like to be whole and have an integrated self and be able to be okay with what others think of me (I remember you talking about this in a previous post awhile ago) -- and be able to be myself even if others don't accept me. Right now, it is a daily struggle.

I don't think that there is danger in accepting that we couldn't have done differently in the past. I think there is danger in not accepting that we did the best we could, especially if shame is involved. I know that now I am not whole, I have states that aren't integrated, and that the road to integration is acceptance. The reason I am clingy/needy at times is because I had to dissociate this part of myself because it wasn't welcomed. So, I think the clingy behavior is a symptom, and if the root of the behavior is addressed, that the symptom will fade away. In the meanwhile, yes, I absolutely want to be less clingy and intrusive, and I plan on doing just that. I think we are saying mostly the same thing, with maybe a difference in belief or two. I am okay with not agreeing on our beliefs, and the fact that I am stating this means that I am working on being okay with what others think while having my own beliefs also.

I really appreciate your reply, I enjoy reading your posts, and thanks so much for your support!

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by Miswimmy1

im sry that i triggered you...

You absolutely did not trigger me, you helped me work through my own stuff. It was in an effort to help you. I'm glad you are feeling better.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

I don't think that there is danger in accepting that we couldn't have done differently in the past. I think there is danger in not accepting that we did the best we could, especially if shame is involved.

Just to clarify-- I think I didn't write this as clearly as I could, but you also misunderstood me. I agree that we should accept that we couldn't have done differently in the past and that we "shouldn't" feel shame about acting in dysfunctional ways. I was talking about a belief that we can't make different choices in the *future*. Past/future and our ability to take control, very different.