Asking for physical contact by non T

K, here goes....

All these threads lately on physical contact and hugs in T got me thinking. I work with a body worker, which I mentioned on another thread. She knows about my past and helped me through a crisis before. She used to give me hugs when I had a difficult time. She hasn't given me one in years now and I'm sure she has her own reasons (my guess is that she is afraid physical contact would frighten me when triggered).

During our work together there are times when I'm triggered, get flashbacks, etc. Sometimes to the point of tears (and I rarely cry in front of people). She's asked what would help. And I want to say it so badly. I want to just say.... a hug. Or physical contact of some kind like she's offered in the past. But I can't make myself say it. I know it's the little part of me, which embarrasses me. But given that she has withdrawn touch from me when I'm triggered, maybe she doesn't feel it's right any more. We never discussed this issue.... after all, she's not my T. But... is it right of me to ask for this for times when I'm triggered? How can I tell her this in a not so direct way?

Any advice much appreciated.

I think you would do well to be cautious here. I don't know her background or training, and touch can trigger reactions that are unexpected. If she isn't trained to understand and handle the outcomes, it isn't to your benefit. I know it seems like you just want hugs, and you experienced them in the past, but your reactions going forward may change, especially in ways that you might not be aware of.

Thanks, fkm. I see your point. Just to clarify, my flashbacks aren't severe and I always know where I am but sometimes her working on me physically and some of the positions can trigger. The more she withdraws from me (walks away etc), the worse I feel. The more I feel her presence, the more I stay in the present.

Touch is so grounding for me. Most touch, that is. Some of the work she has to do is physically painful. In her line of work she encounters lots of people who are also survivors and she is ethically obligated to know about these issues (in school I know they cover it). She seems better at working with survivors than any T I ever met before (even though I know she's not my T). She has saved my life by being the first person to find out what happened to me and supporting me through it.... otherwise I think I would not be here today.

It seemed to me actually that she was trying to open the door on this topic by asking what would help while I'm triggered, as well as afterwards. She especially started asking what would help after she withdrew touch, which makes me think someone told her to ask first. I think she would feel better knowing how I felt about it so she would know how to help me but I'm too chicken **** to bring it up. I usually shirk the question. How do you all summon the courage to have this conversation?

well...youll never know unless you ask.

can i ask how you do body work? what does it consist of it is isnt in conjunction with therapy?

Hi TC.... I know you're totally right. I want to ask. So badly. I. can't. do. it.

To answer your question, the work is on medical issues with my body, to recover from trauma actually. Part of the trauma was from an accident, and part from my assault. She was the first person ever to recommend T to me after she found out what happened. While T itself has not necessarily helped me feel "healed," it has made me more aware of my issues, and made me work on communicating what I need to others. This would be the perfect place to practice that. If she wasn't comfortable doing something like touching my hand for a minute she'd just say so. She has healthy boundaries. Sometimes she does touch my hand anyway. It's so ridiculous of me, I spend the entire time getting lots of physical contact (albeit painful) and yet I can't bring myself to ask this tiny thing, in this safe environment. I think lack of being able to acknowledge these needs and being ashamed of feelings in general, is what drove me to develop this part of me, this little girl part who is needy in the first place.

I know you're right TC.... I can't blurt it out somehow, even though I know she'd be supportive no matter what her answer was.

I think I understand a little better now. Perhaps talk about whether you should pursue this and how to pursue this with your T. If you do address this with your bodywork, I still think it's important to tread cautiously because your flashbacks could intensify, so your bodywork person would need to know this, and you'd need to have a way to communicate this.

Tkx, fkm, I really appreciate your take on the safety/boundary aspects. In the past my body worker T and I discussed nonverbal signs I could use if work got too intense and I couldn't verbalize saying stop. That's for the painful therapeutic work. When she uses maternal type touch it's always been okay with me. Sometimes she will still briefly touch my arm or leg or convey something empathetic with her voice or body, esp after I disclose something difficult. It makes me feel so safe.

Also your idea to discuss it in T is a really good one. However I am wayyyy too chicken **** to even discuss it there, cause then indirectly I would be asking T to do the same thing when I am upset. I know she doesn't like touching ppl.... sooo.... aak. Maybe what I need is to find a T who is willing to work with touch to help ground their clients .... and if I have that, then I can discuss it with that T more easily (since I think I need to find a different T anyway).

It would be important to know why your T doesn't think touch is a good idea. And is this her feeling in general, or for you in particular? Does she know you're involved in bodywork?

There were times in therapy I very much wanted touch. My T did not think it was in my best interests at the time. But we talked about it, and the times when I felt that need so strongly throughout therapy. And in hindsight, I think his assessment was right for me.

Interestingly, I'm currently experiencing therapeutic massage for the first time for health reasons, but it's many years post therapy. Any psychological aspect isn't part of the work, but I did make him aware that I needed to feel in control of the process, and that I needed to set the boundaries of what would happen. Basically that amounts to when and where he touches and whether the contact is through a blanket or on bare skin. It's not easy as I'm doing all of this in a foreign language, and I'm far from fluent. But he comes highly recommended, and seems to be quite technically skilled and professional. And I feel a kindness in him.

I've been doing this for about 6 months, extending the boundaries very slowly because I really don't know what to expect trigger-wise as I've never done this before. So far, the only "side-effect" has been that my dreams have been a bit more vivid lately, but not in any bad way.

That's great about the body work in a foreign language. You're really brave to try it. It does take getting used to. One of the first things I had to learn--and it took me years---was to say what was and wasn't all right with me. Each time I opened up about what made me feel safe, she responded so well. If she forgets occasionally she quickly realizes it and apologizes like mad. It's so sweet and makes me feel so cared for. That helps me open up even more. I've apologized after getting triggered or upset and she said it's okay, and that it could happen again in the future and that it's okay. She's helped remove the shame from my feelings and validated them. She just wants to do whatever I need so I feel safe. I'm glad you sense kindness in your body worker. That is an important ingredient.

I'd say that this experience in many ways was even more healing than T ever was for me. Because our relationship is so strong. Even though I didn't work on the issues with her, I would up working "through" some of them with her, indirectly, just by being in a therapeutically good working relationship. A good body T also knows how to set boundaries well. From what I've heard it's very common to form a close relationship with body Ts. So a good body T can help in their own way and knows the difference between supporting you through your problems vs trying to actually be your T. I'm really glad you found someone you are gaining comfort with. I haven't read too much about this topic--body work in conjunction with T--but am interested in it because there is definitely a mind body connection that is sometimes lacking in T. Thanks for posting about your experience.

Oh to answer your questions.... T seems like she doesn't touch clients. She mentioned not liking to touch people, or at least not all people, esp not those who've been assaulted. I actually felt very uncomfortable with that statement. I'm not "tainted." But her discomfort with touch makes me feel uncomfortable discussing it with her... and because she is a bit "clinical" and I feel disconnected from her I don't desire touch from her. She does know I'm doing the body work. I've discussed being triggered there and how I need to work on speaking up for myself and what good boundaries are. I have a tendency to not share things that I should.... and conversely, sometimes I share things that I don't know if it was TMI. But body worker T has sooo much common sense that I can't help but ask for her advice sometimes.

FKM, your words just gave me another insight. I think I understand what body worker T may be thinking. She probably thinks what you mentioned... that my flashbacks are severe and that I am associating her with the perp (which is not what actually is happening). That's why she leaves the room, to make me feel safe. It made me get worse instead and I hadn't understood. I think I need to tell her that it's not as severe as she thinks, that I'm aware of where I am, and that her presence is helpful. That would probably help her feel calmer about the situation not being as out of control as she may think, and also help her help me better. Anyway, thanks, and even though I'm still too scared to bring up touch, I have an idea of where I need to go next in conversation with her.

You're certainly not "tainted," and I don't think your T meant it at all that way. But it does sound like she doesn't want to engage in touch, maybe for reasons that are in your best interest, maybe because of her theoretical orientation, maybe just because she doesn't feel comfortable offering it in her practice. I guess I felt differently because I knew my T was comfortable with touch, just not for me. It hurt at times, but I did understand his reasoning, and maybe even felt a safety in that.