[franki_j]

If your T is sick or has a broken bone or something, do they mention it or act like it is a big deal? In the past, when my T has had a cold or one time I noticed her wiggling around in her seat and when I asked her, she said it was because her back was hurting. Whenever I've expressed sympathy, she always kind of waves me off and acts like it isn't a big deal.
Well, today I walked in and her wrist was broken. She kept saying it wasn't a big deal, and then she even tried to open the door for me on my way out because I was carrying a lot of bags! Of course I didn't let her and opened it myself, but I get the feeling that she definitely doesn't want me making a big deal about her wrist, even though I felt almost selfish telling her about my problems when she has a broken wrist that she basically won't let me express sympathy towards. I mean, I get that Ts are supposed to focus only on us, but to me it is kind of my personality to care about people, and it is hard when T won't let me.

[QuietCat]

This reminds me of when my T told me he'd had his gallbladder removed the previous week, and this seemed like a big deal to me, but he was just like, "Yeah. Glad that's done." and never mentioned anything else about it.

It is not in my nature to show too much sympathy when a person is sick or hurt, so I haven't had a lot of angst over this with my T.

[critterlady]

My T generally brushes off any questions/comments about him. Well, he tells me if I ask him how he's doing, but he immediately brings the conversation back to me. I rarely ask him how he is anymore. He's not much for small talk anyway.

I once had a session with my previous T where it was obvious he felt like crap. I asked him and he admitted he was under the weather. I barely said anything all session - I was concerned that he'd find it too taxing. At my next session, he gave me some grief about it, saying that he could take care of his needs and if he hadn't felt up to working, he would've cancelled. After that, I stopped asking how he was.

[Nightlight]

It hurts me when she ignores when I show that I care about her. Like a rejection, because it's not that easy for me to show that in the first place, it's a risk. I know I'm not responsible for taking care of her, it doesn't mean I don't care though. All she needs to do is acknowledge what I say. Recently she has ignored me sometimes, particularly in text. I recently said "I hope you're okay", which I don't consider to be a major boundary crossing. She ignored that but did answer me when I asked in my session. Mostly she lets me and doesn't reject my attempts, though she is careful, I think, to generally share just enough and not too much. Though I don't feel burdened by knowing her difficulties. I care about her and that's one thing I like about myself. I do care about other people.

Anyway, that was a long way of saying, yes she sometimes brushes it off but I prefer it when she doesn't.

I actually read an article related to this yesterday. This part meant something to me.

"Clinically, the patient's altruistic wishes and gestures take a variety of forms. The patient implicitly or explicitly critiques our dress, appearance, health , approval, style, character, or theory. The patient tries to cheer us up, or help us feel smart, or otherwise contribute to making us healthier or happier. In my view, these interactions often constitute rejection tests. By inviting the therapist to decline or rebuff the help, the patient is seeking reassurance that his/her altruistic love is good, valuable, and worthy. Therapists most commonly fail these tests through interpreting the patient's wish to give to the therapist as a reparation, reaction formation, an attempt to "buy" love or safety, pre-oedipal efforts at control, or an expression of oedipal love. The patient often feels rejected when the therapist implies hat the patient's altruism is "really" something else. The patient then often complies with this perceived rebuff, blames him or herself, and experiences the altruistic gesture as bad and unworthy. Thus, therapists may unwittingly traumatize their patients in much the same way that the parents did by their unwillingness or inability to register and appreciate the child's positive influence."

http://www.behavior.net/forums/contr...996/msg79.html

[CantExplain]

One session T gave me a blanket because I was cold. At the end of the session, I tried to fold it before I gave it back to me. She stopped me.

"I'm allowed to take care of you. You are not allowed to take care of me."

She was half joking, but underneath she meant every word.

Hmmm. Maybe I'll follow up on that...

[geezusz]

Originally Posted by franki_j

If your T is sick or has a broken bone or something, do they mention it or act like it is a big deal? In the past, when my T has had a cold or one time I noticed her wiggling around in her seat and when I asked her, she said it was because her back was hurting. Whenever I've expressed sympathy, she always kind of waves me off and acts like it isn't a big deal.
Well, today I walked in and her wrist was broken. She kept saying it wasn't a big deal, and then she even tried to open the door for me on my way out because I was carrying a lot of bags! Of course I didn't let her and opened it myself, but I get the feeling that she definitely doesn't want me making a big deal about her wrist, even though I felt almost selfish telling her about my problems when she has a broken wrist that she basically won't let me express sympathy towards. I mean, I get that Ts are supposed to focus only on us, but to me it is kind of my personality to care about people, and it is hard when T won't let me.

*shakes fist at ethics*

I've never really noticed that. T and I have commiserated over our mutual bad backs and sinus infections, etc. over the years. We went through his father's death and my sister's death. He's always seemed to graciously accept my concerns and well-wishes. We don't spend a great deal of time talking about his health or other issues, but when we have he's always accepted my sympathies graciously. But I don't think I come off as trying to "take care" of him or that I was in any way focusing too much on his issues either. Perhaps that is your T's concern?

My t allows me to care about her and the things that happen to her and when she gets sick and stuff. I have given her care packages and little gifts when shes sick to help her feel better snd she likes those too.

[stopdog]

I cannot imagine I would want to care about the therapist in any fashion other than that I do any other random person I come across. I do not wish her ill, I hope she recovers swiftly should she contract a disease or have a broken bone or surgery and so forth, but that is about it. I don't want the therapist to care about me either really. That is not why I go to see one and I don't see the point in it.

" The patient tries to cheer us up, or help us feel smart, or otherwise contribute to making us healthier or happier."

I am fairly certain I have done none of these things. Unless me paying the woman weekly makes her happier.

[Bill3]

A T who accepts help when ill or injured models that it can be okay to allow oneself to be vulnerable.

My T allows me to wish her well or extend sympathy when she is not feeling her best. As long as its the same way I extend it to everyone else her panties dont get in a bunch. I have never shut down a client who is genuinely concerned when I dont feel well. That seems a bit out there to me.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by franki_j

Does your T let you care about them?... to me it is kind of my personality to care about people, and it is hard when T won't let me.

It is not up to my T to allow me to care about him. I choose whether I care about him or not. He can't control that and he has never tried. I care about him and he accepts that I care. I don't think a T can prevent someone from caring if they truly care. If my T tried to prevent me from caring, he would be quashing my authenticity, and that is not a good feature in a T!

One session my T had a bit gash on the top of his head from a dangerous accident. When he told me how it happened I saw how it could have been so much worse. I couldn't help feeling for him and he saw it. His response was to thank me for my empathy. Was that so hard? No. I am glad he is appreciative of who I am. I don't get the T who rebuffs these feelings from a client. To me, it does not seem to build the therapeutic relationship.

Nightlight, I liked that quote you provided. I think Ts who don't understand what it says must be the ones who are discouraging clients from caring.

Originally Posted by sunrise

It is not up to my T to allow me to care about him. I choose whether I care about him or not. .

That was my first thought when I saw the title of this thread. No one has the power to stop me from caring, and I certainly don't need their permission to care.

I think you are talking more about your T not wanting you to express or act on your caring feelings though I guess. Still seems a bit hypervigilant for a therapist to not accept normal, healthy sympathy/empathy. I can see if a client seemed overly involved or distracted by trying to "fix" things or make a therapist feel better (which obviously a client would also not have the power to do), then he might discourage a client from even getting started, but I didn't get the idea that that was the issue here.

Originally Posted by farmergirl

Still seems a bit hypervigilant for a therapist to not accept normal, healthy sympathy/empathy.

That's what I was thinking as well. If you're having a conversation with somebody for 45 minutes, and they are wearing a cast, it would be unthinkable not to express sympathy even briefly, I would think. In fact, I've encountered this - my T broke his wrist last autumn and wore a cast for maybe six weeks. It did not occur to me not to ask what had happened when he first showed up with the cast. That would have felt unnatural and restrained. But we didn't spend more than a minute or two on the subject and I don't think he would have volunteered any information if I hadn't asked. He did not appear bothered by my asking though, and he thanked me for my concern. I would have felt rather rebuffed if he'd criticised me, even implicitly by the tone of his voice, for asking (especially after telling me repeatedly over the preceding months that nothing is out of bounds for me to say - a concept I am still not quite getting.)

For me it turns into phantasy. I become T's saviour. Only I could care about her just right. I become the person no one can live without. Of course I've monitored that phantasy, stuck the needle in its bubble and continued talking about me. I sort of laugh silently to myself at that thinking. And then the right sized general concern kicks in. Non dramatic and non care-taking fashion & I remember T is more than able to take care of her self.

[feralkittymom]

My first thought when I saw this thread title was, "Well, that horse has already left the barn."

My T was rarely ill beyond an occasional cold. Usually, he would apologize upfront for sounding differently. He was never so ungracious as to reject my sympathetic words.

In the first year of therapy, I frequently felt ill during sessions; I suppose it was a kind of anxiety. I wasn't able to control it, and it was very distressing. He always took care of me.

When he required sudden and serious surgery, I was quite worried about him. I called the hospital to check on his status. After his 6 week rehabilitation, he returned to wrap up and retire. He prompted me repeatedly to talk about my feelings about what had happened and that it necessitated ending our therapy. I know he didn't really want to talk about my fears that he would die because he had his own fears. But he did it because he felt an obligation to help me come to terms with it.

Now 15 years later, he knows that I continue to carry a concern (not obsessively) for his health, and so he is very straightforward with me about how he's taking care of himself. He's shown the same straightforwardness about his grief. He doesn't go into deep detail, but accepts my concern by acknowledging how he's doing. The free exchange of caring feelings is among the best benefits of human relationships.

[franki_j]

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies. I guess what sunrise said: "It is not up to my T to allow me to care about him. I choose whether I care about him or not," is pretty accurate. My T can't make me not care about her, but it is hard for me to not feel selfish talking about my problems when I see T adjusting her sling and I just pretend not to notice because I don't think she would appreciate it if I asked her if she was OK, given her tendency to wave off any show of sympathy towards her.

Like when I walked into the room, the first thing I asked her was about her wrist, but then I had tell her that I no longer had insurance and I needed a biopsy and at the end of telling her all this I awkwardly added "But I'm sorry that your broke your wrist." And she said, "Well breaking your wrist is nothing compared to losing your insurance and needing a biopsy all in one day." And then she added "Not that we're comparing, but still." I just get the feeling she really doesn't want me to focus on her, which is concurrent with her whole approach to therapy, ie no self-disclosure, but it's hard for me to ignore the fact that she has a cast on her arm; I mean it would be odd for me not to comment on it.
This whole thing probably says a lot more about me as well. I am very caring, especially with people I am close to, and it is hard to accept that although she has done so much for me, I am not allowed to repay her in some way.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by franki_j

l. I am very caring, especially with people I am close to, and it is hard to accept that although she has done so much for me, I am not allowed to repay her in some way.

The therapist does get paid. It is their job. Her fee is your repayment. Plus, if the information that others love to post about here is true, therapists may feel a sense of satisfaction or reward when clients achieve what they sought from therapy.

[franki_j]

Originally Posted by stopdog

The therapist does get paid. It is their job. Her fee is your repayment. Plus, if the information that others love to post about here is true, therapists may feel a sense of satisfaction or reward when clients achieve what they sought from therapy.

Yeah, except during that same session my T also decided that I would pay a fraction of her rate because my dad lost his job and I don't have insurance. So I can't even pay her the full amount.

[stopdog]

Well, she has been paid by you in the past and even with a reduced rate - she is getting paid. Plus they seem to get reward out of believing they are helping people.

[Sunne]

No way. He will just say, "I have a bit of a cold." and change the subject. Sometimes he makes a whiny remark that he knows I find hilarious (because he's a big guy) but that's it.

He does let me fold the blanket though! And he likes when I bring him coffee. If I ever say I'm worried about him he wants to talk about it but eases my concerns. I was really worried about him before the holidays as he was really stressed. I said I am worried about his well being.. and he said.. "Well, it's a valid concern."

But he wouldn't bring his private life problems to me. Doesn't like a fuss to be made about him!

[BlessedRhiannon]

My T always graciously accepts my expressions of concern or sympathy. We don't dwell on it, though.

It's not really her decision whether or not I care about her. Now, trying to take care OF her, that's a different story, and as she frequently reminds me, that's not my responsibility. Expressing sympathy for something is fine...trying to "make it better" for T is not needed.

[Big Mama]

I usually have late evening appointments. The T mentioned something about her back. Nothing big. But you can tell she is hurting. I told her it was OK to set on the couch instead of her usual chair. She did.

I got to T early one day and the T was on the couch w/ a blanket. I asked her if she was ok. She jsut said "cramps". I told her to stay out then. She did. We did the whole session w/ her laying on her couch and me setting in the armchair. If she is comfortable then she is better able to take of my needs. Plus cramps suck. We (she and I) are very open. I seldom wear shoes in her office and put my feet in the seat. You can tell there is a different comfort level when my H is in the room. She will take her shoes off to and set side ways in the chair and hang her legs over the side. I want her to be comfortable. I want to be comfortable to.

As many of you know, my in laws were the ones to introduce to me to my therapist, and they saw him also. When my father in law died, my T came to the funeral. At the next appointment, we were talking about my father in law and he was saying how sorry he was for my loss. I said that it was his loss also, because I knew that he and my father in law were really close and T cared about him very much, so I was sorry for his loss as well. He teared up and sat for a second and then thanked me and we went on. He accepts compassion and caring and seems to welcome it as a natural part of the relationship (and he insists it is a "real" relationship), but as others have said, he doesn't keep the focus on him for very long, and moves back to me and my issues.