11-FEB Session: Support

I don't find normalizing useful. It does not matter to me one way or the other if everyone feels the same way or not. Or if it is usual to feel a certain way under certain circumstances. I fully acknowledge I am not a unique little snowflake. I just don't see what I am supposed to do with that information.

ive never been privy to this either. being told that "a lot of people are like this" or " a lot of people do that" etc.

not exactly what critterlady meant. but i get some therapists trying to say how i am compared to "most people". it makes me feel worse actually. because i feel like they are just minimizing me in many many ways.

i also dont like how they talk about their lives too.

The thing about support is that we only hear what we can hear: and that is shaped by our life experience. For many of us with less than ideal childhoods, we've inherited dysfunctional responses and expectations.

Like BJ"S "disappointed": it triggers a bad association for her, but that association is "off." If a T says, "That must have been disappointing for you," I hear support. Disappointment is about loss, an expectation not met. It sounds commiserating to me.

Part of why addressing these reactions is valuable is that it does help to "normalize" a reaction. Isn't the point to come to a reevaluation of our past experiences? It's been my experience that that relieves pain. (In the short run it can increase pain, as the full awareness of the dysfunction becomes clear, but ultimately it relieves the pain.)

CE, if your T doesn't "challenge" you in this way, then it just reinforces distorted perceptions and patterns. That may feel good in the moment, but it's not helpful.

Perhaps she only gives you what you perceive as support when you're feeling good because whatever dysfunctions you're working on only show themselves when you express your needs. That's when her reactions have the most impact to help you by addressing distortions.

Also--are you sure your wish for more self-disclosure by your T is about feeling supported, and not prompted by another reason? Possessing info can also be a power/control play.

My T was relatively blank slate--not exclusively--but I always felt supported. I felt his support by his being there beside me, session after session; by always responding when I reached out; by his respect of me; by his feeling of caring about my welfare.

CE - I get the feeling you are too attached to your T. Do you think you're trying to make her change to only say what you want to hear, when you want to hear it. Her job is there to help you take steps needed to make a positive change.

I go to therapy, but it is a business relationship. It is his job to help me understand and keep me accountable for changing my behaviors and moving forward. Like any other profession he is providing a service.

And then Ts will tell you you're a unique individual and not to compare yourself with otfhers.

I'm OK with being challenged, but I have to be in the mood.

If I came to you specifically for support and you said this to me, I would not feel supported.

Is there such a thing as "too attached"? My T has not said so.

I think each of us regards his own level of attachment as normal and anything else as pathological!

But this really is the point, isn't it? Your T's job isn't only to give you what you think you want when you want it.

Her job is to see beyond what your present feelings dictate to you, and to provide what will best help you beyond the constraints of your perception.

Which is why I wonder how much of this connects back to control issues.

I know you and I have different views on this, CE, but for me, I don't want my T or anyone else to support me when I engaging in unhealthy or destructive or counter-productive behavior. For me, that would be sign the person was taking the easy way out. Even on here, I do not see the "oh that must be so hard for you! Poor you!" kind of responses are helpful or supportive. That is the EASY thing to do. It's so easy to give a throw-away response that sounds kind or to just click the "hugs" button.

It's much harder to put yourself out there and actually say what you believe the person NEEDS to hear for their long term well being. You risk offending the other person (even if it's truly and genuinely something you really believe they need to hear). You risk other people on the forum disagreeing with you and blasting you. You risk having other people on the forum actually AGREE with you, but tell you not to say those things out loud and that we are apparently supposed to "support" people even when they are making horrible choices and doing things that are clearly harmful or just continuing the same pattern over and over. I honestly believe that the more supportive, loving, caring and HONEST thing to do is tell someone when their behavior is destructive or their thoughts are distorted.

In my case, I know that I have said things in therapy that show how distorted my thinking is. It would be easy for my T to just express sympathy and go on. Confrontations are hard. Instead of taking the easy way out, he points out the distortions. A few times he has gone so far as to just say, "oh bull s hit." I'm like yeah, I KNOW it's bs, but it FEEEEELS true. I know that confronting me is all about his care for me, his desire for me to improve emotionally, and his respect for me in knowing that I can handle not having him agree with me or approve of my behavior all the time.

In my point of view, a person can tell me their perspective or opinion. And that opinion may not agree with mine and as long as they do not try to force their opinion on me, it is is fine that we disagree. But that person cannot tell me or know what I NEED. I become very concerned with the idea that others (a therapist) who may think they KNOW what someone else NEEDS may try to inflict that belief on a client.

I see what you're saying, stopdog, and I do not think that I try to tell people what to do. I will express what I think is healthier or what I think they need. Obviously, I could be wrong. Sometimes, it seems to me, that people on here will talk about doing something that is clearly and obviously a poor choice under any and all circumstances. And others will be expressing sympathy and support, when it appears to me that the more loving thing to do would be to say, "hey that seems like a totally bad idea!" If someone is, for instance and speaking of no one in particular, totally self absorbed with no respect for boundaries, it seems obvious to me that it would be counter-productive to encourage them to continue to disrespect boundaries when their stated goal is to stop doing that. Does that make sense?

I do understand. When I see something differently than another person, if I know the person well enough, and they ask, I feel like I can say "I think that is a bad plan because ..." then the other person can agree or not. The next move is mine if they disagree (If they agree, then I celebrate my genius and go on). I either have to accept the person is not going to agree with me and wonder what my stake is in trying to convince them my observation/opinion/perspective is a good one or the correct one or whatever or I have to accept they are going to do what they do until it works for them or they choose a different way of getting what they want (choosing the latter option makes me much happier). I can still like the person and offer support in other ways that do not cause me or them grief. I can still like you but I am not going to be able to go along with you when you do x.
I also know that for me, I have to have the space to make the choice mine, so someone can make a suggestion and I can ponder it and work out how it might look for me and then try it or reject it (and I might reject it for reasons other than that it won't work). Someone trying to insist I am wrong or that I have to do something a certain way does not usually motivate me to change.
I am not certain it is always the best thing to think that one is not being critical just because the opinion given is honest.(I am not referring to you mkac - this is a general statement)

I agree with everything you've said in this post, and just wanted to highlight this one thing. I think that online people may be more inclined to see these kinds of honest remarks as "attacks" or "criticism" and not as supportive because it is two dimensional, only words on a page, and not flesh-and-blood statements from people that you know. But here, as in real life, I have observed people becoming healthier in two ways-- 1) being willing to be honest in this way, knowing the risks of being shamed for it in some way or having received nasty PM's in the past; and 2) being on the receiving end of these kinds of honest statements and being able to hear them rather than complain about being criticized. On the second point, I think even when the poster is off base or the original poster rejects the advice or perspective, seeing it not as an attack but just as an individual difference is often a sign of growth.

I guess being willing to say your truth and being willing to hear other people's truths in a non defensive and open way are the type of posts that I get the most out of these days. So thank you for sharing yours.

I have discovered that for me, in my therapy and on here, when someone is just wrong, or I think they are wrong, I can just listen, think about it, and go, "hmmm, no, that's doesn't seem to apply," or "eh, no, I don't think that is right." However, when I read or hear something and my response is to get upset, sulk and think the other person just doesn't GET it, they probably have a point I need to think about more. When my response is to scream inside my head, "f uck NO!" and I have an overwhelming desire to kick that person in the shins (this is usually in response to something my therapist said), then, the person usually ends up being right and really on point. I just didn't want to deal with whatever it is we are talking about.

I also think there is a difference between what is expected of friends and acquaintances and what is expected from a therapist.

Yes, for me I consider these things the difference between reactive mode and reflective mode. In reactive mode, I have an automatic and close minded and pretty much instantaneous response, based on some historical remnant of something, it's like a knee jerk response. In reflective mode, I can consider whatever it is while recognizing my emotional response to it (if I have one, it is typically milder than in reactive mode) and it is like I make a choice rather than just react to something. For me, the balance of reactive to reflective mode has improved and I have far more reflective moments than I used to. Another way of saying I am more mindful than I used to be.

But in general, I don't want to be reactive and just react to things in my environment and my life. It's much more satisfying to me when I can feel myself being reflective.

CE,,
Have you thought of doing a different type of therapy, like ego state therapy? Just wondering?

Well then, we don't agree.

If I'm not in the mood to hear T, she'll be wasting her breath anyway.

Therapy is hard. Support is part of her duties. And we are talking here about a case where she wanted to support me but somehow failed to do so.

Bravo! I'm with Stopdog on this one.

I don't think I was doing that.
Was I?

Also, I believe there there is a Christian maxim: "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
Mutatis mutandis, I expect something similar from my T.

How is that different?

I have a long history with this T, and she accepts that support is an issue between us. We've survived four ruptures and I have hope that we will find a solution to this.

I am glad you keep searching for a solution, I also believe that you will find a way. "You can take many paths to get to the same place."

I hope my path will take me somehere different!

lol. Good point My end goal is being whole and being able to live life without dealing with anxiety and pain on a daily basis. How about you, where do you want to end up?