In times where you may have got emotional/angry, has your T ever raised their voice back to you? Let their frustrations show? Told you that you're 'difficult' or 'hard work'? Argued with you? Or let out cries of 'For goodness sake!!'?

Would you expect that? How might you react?

Is it fair that the T react and mirror you? Or should they always hold this position of calm and 'unconditional positive regard'?

Would you look on it as being a sign that the T is invested in you/your therapy? (Who wants a blank slate, right?) Or would you think maybe they are too personally affected by you and that perhaps the therapeutic relationship isn't as healthy or boundaried as it should be? Would you think it was transference/countertransference at work and commit to working through it? Or...?

[BlessedRhiannon]

If I'm emotional and angry, I kinda count on my T to counter balance that and remain calm. I would respond very poorly to an emotional outburst of any kind from my T.

That said, my T has responded emotionally to things I've told her, but it was always for my benefit, and helped me to see what I really probably should be feeling about things. I told her something that happened after the death of my brother, and T expressed anger on my behalf...that made me feel validated, and I appreciated that.

I appreciate authenticity from my T, but I think that can be given without being dramatic. If I were ever actually raging at my T, her raging back would not be helpful. I would, however, appreciate her calmly telling me that me behavior was not necessary.

My T does meet my sarcasm with sarcasm, and will often extend my arguments to the ridiculous to point out my distorted thinking.

[stopdog]

The one I see has said I am challenging to work with.
I do not see the therapist reacting as a sign they care. I take it as a sign they need to get more detached.

[tinyrabbit]

Once I got really mad and he kind of mirrored my tone. It was transference but I wanted to fight with him and if he had said "you're not really mad at me" I would have torn his head off. So he engaged with the fight I thought I wanted to have and his tone matched mine at times. I thought he was being mean (I was taking everything the wrong way) but realised afterwards that the only critical thing he said was "you really are pedantic sometimes." Which I am.

Generally he is very calm, though he can be sarcastic and isn't the type to just look sympathetic and pat my shoulder. Recently I said: "Well, if you had thought x you would have been an a--hole." And he said: "I'm not opposed to being seen as an a--hole." I recently emailed him explaining in great depth exactly why he should go f--k himself. He said: "Your email was brilliant, it really made me laugh."

As to arguing, he argues with me all the time. None of that blank slate stuff for me, I like feeling like he's a real person.

[elliemay]

Well my psychiatrist told me that I was being a problem. He was right. I was being a huge problem.

It was a pivotal moment for me.

I had to take that leap and trust him.

My old therapist also got quite frustrated with my brattiness. Another turning point for me in therapy.

Every single thing he said was true. I had to be open to it.

However, I think it depends. In both of my cases I wasn't trying at all. I was actively fighting against it.

If someone is truly struggling to talk or be emotionally honest I think the therapist should meet them where they are without question.

T and i get into arguments sometimes, we get mad and yell at each other. Sometimes she gets frustrated with me and tells me so. Thats ok with me. I need to know those things. I do the same with her.She has said things like that sometimes when people are really close and invested in each others lives, they can allow each other to get in touch with their deepest feelings, and let themselves get angry with each other because they feel safe with each other.

Interesting points raised here. My T has raised his voice at me but only after I have said something to cause alarm or that would raise anger in him (not intentionally just happened that way). For myself, I was surprised at first and didn't know how to react but it worked to actually calm me down as his voice escalated. I was also pleasantly surprised that he was affected so strongly to react with emotion. I've had previous T's who literally would just sit there with no reaction, no emotion displayed at all and left those guys in a flash. I would prefer that someone be real with me, whether or not I agree with their reaction. I should hope that my T is human first and then professional 2nd. If their reaction is poorly displayed, then a good T should be able to explain himself if necessary. I prefer a real honest to goodness T than a phony zombie. Thanks for your post!

[tinyrabbit]

Originally Posted by BlessedRhiannon

If I were ever actually raging at my T, her raging back would not be helpful. I would, however, appreciate her calmly telling me that me behavior was not necessary.

It would be game over if my T told me my behaviour was not necessary. That's not how therapy works for me. Why can't you rage if you need to?

Well I personally would get even madder if my t raised her voice or showed any sort of anger. I rely on t to be calm and emotionally stable when I am not.
My first t used to get very mad with me and I would shut down and be afraid to talk to her. I generally don't appreciate people getting mad and when they do I run for the hills.
If a t was to show any other emotion- tears, laughter I would see this as very positive but any negative behaviour would be detrement to me

[spondiferous]

I was seeing this woman when I was 24 - someone I really looked up to - and I was in the middle of having to make the biggest decision of my life; a life or death decision. And I kept going back and forth. And then finally one day, she snapped at me, "At some point you're just going to have to make up your mind". I took it really personally at the time but it gave me the push I needed to make the choice.

[IowaFarmGal]

I need my T to act like a real human being. I don't appreciate them mirroring when they can't even get my emotions right and they do it as if it were a game. Thankfully I only saw that guy once before they let me out of the hospital.

I don't think I could deal with my T shouting at me. I think I would dissociate.

[Nightlight]

I always thought I wanted that maximum amount. I'm not so sure anymore. My T has always been so genuine, I think. In some ways it valuable to be able to see the way other people might react to us (when they feel we are being frustrating), but in another way I think they have to rein it in enough so that we can express what we need to. For me there's a danger now that I change in a negative way because of what has happened. There's still a chance that I can talk about it and fix it before that happens. If T keeps being so reactive towards me then I fear that the same thing will happen to me that happened in childhood. I'll push all the bad stuff away, won't be able to talk about it. I'll even forget what happened and why it was so bad that it caused me to be silent and distant and feel like I'm on my own.

I think it can help, but they have to be so careful with the timing and not to go too far with it. My T said in my last session that when she got really angry that time, it was a sign that she was over-involved with me. I'm guessing your T has the same sort of relationship with you where she does genuinely care about you a lot and feels involved and then sometimes takes things too far and is too reactive towards you. I've tried so hard with my T and she says she's tried too. So much has continued to go wrong that I'm terrified that no matter how hard we both work, this dynamic isn't fully fixable. The first incident was just the beginning. And I genuinely like her and care about her so much.

Of course, me and my T aren't you and your T. I really, really hope your T can continue on with a healthy relationship with you. I think it's possible from where it sounds like you're at. I don't think I'd cope with a blank slate, and it's true that I've always needed the authenticity, but I'm feeling really small and valueless right now because of that authenticity.

[precious things]

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

In times where you may have got emotional/angry, has your T ever raised their voice back to you? Let their frustrations show? Told you that you're 'difficult' or 'hard work'? Argued with you? Or let out cries of 'For goodness sake!!'?

Would you expect that? How might you react?

Is it fair that the T react and mirror you? Or should they always hold this position of calm and 'unconditional positive regard'?

Would you look on it as being a sign that the T is invested in you/your therapy? (Who wants a blank slate, right?) Or would you think maybe they are too personally affected by you and that perhaps the therapeutic relationship isn't as healthy or boundaried as it should be? Would you think it was transference/countertransference at work and commit to working through it? Or...?

I wouldn't want to go toe to toe w my T- I had enough of that crap growing up and it would rattle me if T raised their voice in a reactionary way.

I haven't really expressed a big range of emotion in there yet to know just what my T would do but one session I was in the middle of saying something and T responded with an animated "like hell you don't Precious!" It startled me and my first thought was oh god, he's yelling at me. After I thought about it I realized he was trying to get me to think about what I was saying versus how I felt( if he had said it with real anger, different story). I actually felt like he was invested in what I was saying by having that kind of reaction.

[~EnlightenMe~]

I recently emailed him explaining in great depth exactly why he should go f--k himself. He said: "Your email was brilliant, it really made me laugh

This is a classic, Rabbit. I love it!

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

In times where you may have got emotional/angry, has your T ever raised their voice back to you? Let their frustrations show? Told you that you're 'difficult' or 'hard work'? Argued with you? Or let out cries of 'For goodness sake!!'?

Would you expect that? How might you react?

Is it fair that the T react and mirror you? Or should they always hold this position of calm and 'unconditional positive regard'?

Would you look on it as being a sign that the T is invested in you/your therapy? (Who wants a blank slate, right?) Or would you think maybe they are too personally affected by you and that perhaps the therapeutic relationship isn't as healthy or boundaried as it should be? Would you think it was transference/countertransference at work and commit to working through it? Or...?

I think honesty is important when it's important

One time I was giving my T a hard time for a few weeks. She kept responding with what it seemed I needed, and it was reasonable. But I was not reasonable. So, the next time I was 180 degrees the other way, and that response was also rejected by me.
So, she was frustrated. Very unusual and I picked up on it. She said she was annoyed and it was because she felt she was in an impossible position.
Like one of "darned if you do, and darned if you don't". It was really helpful to me to see how I did that, what it was about on a deeper level, how I interact with others and how my behavior can affect others.

[LoneWolfie]

My t raised her voice once because of my self harm, said "It isn't acceptable!" She pretty much scared the crap out of me. Needless to say I didn't self harm for about 6 weeks.

[Nelliecat]

((((JSG))))

I really really want to answer this for you but my head isn't working today. Know I'm thinking about you lovely lady

[feralkittymom]

I think for me authenticity and spontaneity (or if negative, reactivity) are related, but not the same thing.

My T was very authentic in terms of his character. And there were occasions when I believe he was spontaneous, but only with regard to things of lesser importance. There were times when he appeared to think aloud, but I believe about issues to which he had given much previous thought.

So I guess I see spontaneity as reacting in the moment from his needs and feelings. Authenticity I see as responding from who he is and what he thinks and feels, but shaped by a recognition of my needs first and foremost.

I don't believe he ever felt anger towards me, but he would never have reacted in anger knowing my experiences with anger as a child. My need was for him to be emotionally restrained in order to contain my emotions which I experienced as overwhelming. But I've always experienced him as authentic.

[tinyrabbit]

Thinking about it, my T has never raised his voice, ever. This is a good thing. I think I would dissociate too.

Indeed I have dissociated while *I* was shouting at him. Because my younger self thought "what have you done, you've done it now".

[Ice Queen]

My T and I went through a rough patch about a year ago. I was really struggling and our sessions always seemed to devolve into me whining about how hopeless and unfixable I was. Quite a few times she expressed her frustration saying things like "I really don't know what you expect me to do for you" and "frankly, I'm annoyed at your unwillingness to help yourself" in a really harsh tone. I took that really hard but the breaking point was when she interrupted me while I was crying and said "you are VERY manipulative" and went on a little rant about how she felt that I was only in therapy because I wanted to wallow in self pity and that she didn't want to be a part of it anymore. She pulled her chair up to mine and got in my face and angrily told me to stop feeling sorry for myself.

I dissociated halfway through the session and don't really remember how it ended. I was shaken up for about a week. It took me weeks to face her again. I was angry at her callousness and scared that she hated me. But a month later I started to understand why she did what she did (everything she said was absolutely true). I saw her again and we both apologized. She admitted that she let her frustration get the best of her and she didn't phrase things very well, and I admitted that she was right and I needed to hear those things. And we lived happily ever after.

Really though, she did hurt me and I think she approached the situation the wrong way, but I don't blame her because she's only human. Sometimes therapy can get messy and sometimes anger and frustration arise and are inappropriately expressed. It happens. I wouldn't want a therapist who calmly sat there and never expressed any negative emotion. But I'm also glad that she didn't actually YELL at me because that would probably have scared me away forever.

[Bill3]

Calmness in a T can be genuine.

I'd like to thank everyone for contributing their thoughts, opinions, and experiences. It's really helpful. Interesting how varied the responses are, too.

I'm in a quandary as to whether my current therapy can continue, one of the reasons being how my T can tend to react toward me when I'm emotional, when I slip into that mode of 'wounded child'. It's hard to feel I need to try to keep a lid on the feelings, in case she becomes frustrated or defensive again. I really feel that I need to work with these emotional issues, this 'wounded inner child' that she tells me I need to accept... but any time I get comfortable enough to do that work in therapy without dissociating or shutting down (another problem), the emotions that bubble up (complicated by maternal transference and abandonment issues) seem to cause issues between us.

It's not that she doesn't care. But she gets frustrated and can't seem to understand why I 'don't trust' her or 'don't feel safe enough'... I think she takes it quite personally. I do trust my T. I do feel safe with her. Or maybe I should say that I trust her more than anyone and I feel safer with her than anyone else. But therapy brings up old wounds, old fears, old pain.

Hmm. My t has never yelled at me, or said she was frustrated. But she does call me on my BS. She's so calm and mild-mannered I would really not know what to think if she yelled at me. I don't think she ever would, but I can't really know that without testing it. And I have no plans to do so!!

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by artemis-within

Hmm. My t has never yelled at me, or said she was frustrated. But she does call me on my BS. She's so calm and mild-mannered I would really not know what to think if she yelled at me. I don't think she ever would, but I can't really know that without testing it. And I have no plans to do so!!

Yes, this. My T is very forthright about some of my ways of interacting with my H and will very directly and somewhat disapproving say "ouch" or "yeah, that's bad", although I am also acknowledging this in the way I am telling the story, so it's sort of like preaching to the choir.

He has not raised his voice or yelled at me, but he did get all "flappy" one session and seem agitated and really his anti-calm self as he was working with me about a decision I was trying to make about a medical procedure I was supposed to have. He was all like, "you don't have to do it!" and my reaction was yeah, I know that, don't be so flappy about it. He was disappointed in how I saw him because I had previously said he was unflappable. Apparently not.

[tinyrabbit]

just_some_girl I think some Ts don't quite get clients who don't trust them and continue to do so - which is common with PTSD sufferers for example. We have a repeated 'off' switch when it comes to trust.

Sounds like it might be worth looking into another T if you're not getting the reassurance you need. Or at the very least talking to her about how you feel.