Just from replying to a post it got me thinking. Most ts most be at some level voyeuristic. They learn the most intimate and painstaking details of a clients life.
I wonder does it give them power to get invited into the clients life but not allow us into theirs.
They spend all listening to our dramas and our secrets.
Some part of the t must need to feel important. This is not a negative insight on therapists but I am curious about their reasons for becoming a t because I think my own just wants to find out information about everyone
How about your ts?

[HealingTimes]

I would imagine that most psychotherapists (if we are actually talking about Ts here, as opposed to psychologists or other psych related people) go into the job because they want to help other people.
I think that the majority of them have had therapy before, it has helped them, and they want to be able to help people in that same way.

[CantExplain]

Logically, you must be right. But my Ts have kept that hidden.

Well yes their primary goal is to. Help clients but they are obviously getting some of their own needs met too, they are great at telling us we do everything for a reason because we get something out of it.

[lemon80s]

I don't know if I agree with this. You think they are voyeurist because they don't share their own life with you. But that's the way therapy is designed. Once you have a relationship that goes two ways (friendship) there is less room to deal with your own issues. The other gets an equal amount of your energy to talk about their own troubles. But T's don't need to use your energy, that's what you pay them for. To have an 'unequal' relationship in which it's all about you. They get your money instead of your energy. And they use the money to build a life in which they can get their own needs filled with other people. All so they can be there for your needs a 100% when in the therapy room.

This blog from a T is really insightful on a lot of things, I'm linking to the part about money/what's in it for who, but if you feel like it you should read some more on there. (Thanks to Solepa for showing me this blog)

What You Pay For « what a shrink thinks

[moonlitsky]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

Just from replying to a post it got me thinking. Most ts most be at some level voyeuristic. They learn the most intimate and painstaking details of a clients life.
I wonder does it give them power to get invited into the clients life but not allow us into theirs.
They spend all listening to our dramas and our secrets.
Some part of the t must need to feel important. This is not a negative insight on therapists but I am curious about their reasons for becoming a t because I think my own just wants to find out information about everyone
How about your ts?

Hello MLS

It must be very scary for you to think that perhaps your T is gaining some sort of pleasure from your pain. If that were the case then your therapst would be being very cruel. Can you tell your T about this worry? - otherwise it could get in the way of your work. Perhaps you have past experience of others getting pleasure from your pain? - if that is the case I am very sorry that happened to you.

I know I have also had such fears in my own therapy and when I could speak it my T was able to help me with it - it caused me to feel very small and powerless, just as I was as a child when I was being hurt.

As a therapist I most certainly do not gain any gratification from my client's pain - It does move me and I do enter into it in order to be able to help - but from a place of care and compassion - I do not gain anything for myself from the pain but do gain pleasure from the healing I witness.

Edit - I don't share my personal details with my clients to enable them to tell their stories, not to make me powerful (although the transference may be I am powerful - or voyeuristic!) - I do not want to get in their way or contaminate their transference by putting myself in to their process - the therapy is theirs and they deserve the space to get to those deep places without my stuff in their way or needing to look after me. How they see my not telling them about me is all part of the process and is valuable work in itself.

Moon

[tinyrabbit]

Monalisasmile, I just read your post on that other thread and thought it seemed a little worrying. Does your T really want to know everything you do? That seems a little odd.

My T is a relational therapist so he is very much a real person and not a blank screen. He has told me a few things about his life - never to meet his own needs but because it will benefit or help me in some way. I don't feel like he has put his stuff in my way. He's got about 20 years' experience and seems to get it just right. He has done a lot of personal therapy also.

I think lemon80s' post is brilliant and sums up what therapy is all about.

As to why they become therapists, my T told me he became a therapist so he would feel better about his own problems in life. He didn't have a selfless wish to help others. He wanted to help others and feel good about the fact. I appreciated his honesty. And I don't think it's about feeling important given being a T often means becoming a verbal punching bag - it's rather more complex and nuanced than being some kind of ego trip.

Personally I don't feel it's voyeuristic when Ts take an interest in clients' lives, unless they're asking for an unhealthy or obsessive amount of detail. My T just says I can tell him whatever I want to. Due to my childhood I don't expect him to be interested or want to listen so I certainly don't feel he's voyeuristic.

I do worry about him picturing me in certain situations if I talk about them. I need to talk to him about this I think.

Originally Posted by lemon80s

I don't know if I agree with this. You think they are voyeurist because they don't share their own life with you. But that's the way therapy is designed. Once you have a relationship that goes two ways (friendship) there is less room to deal with your own issues. The other gets an equal amount of your energy to talk about their own troubles. But T's don't need to use your energy, that's what you pay them for. To have an 'unequal' relationship in which it's all about you. They get your money instead of your energy. And they use the money to build a life in which they can get their own needs filled with other people. All so they can be there for your needs a 100% when in the therapy room.

This blog from a T is really insightful on a lot of things, I'm linking to the part about money/what's in it for who, but if you feel like it you should read some more on there. (Thanks to Solepa for showing me this blog)

What You Pay For « what a shrink thinks

Yes I know what you ate saying here and thank you for your opinion, it is in fact. How therapy is supposed to be but I was just expressing a concern or thought maybe about certain ts. I know most of them are genuine and have a good nature and mean their best I also understand why we don't know anything about them. I do understand the process but I do think that maybe they like to have a look into others lives. I suppose it does scare me a little cos t will ask me a question sometimes about where I was or with who when really those details have no relevance to what I am trying to tell her only to satisfy her curiosity.

[tinyrabbit]

Question is: is your T being stalkery or intrusive, or is this part of your transference? Is she asking out of interest or because it's relevant or because she's more nosy than she should be? You said she gave you numbers of where she stayed. Isn't that so you can contact her if you need to? When she asks questions is she trying to satisfy her curiosity or find out more about you and your world so she can help you?

Yes, Ts are interested in people's lives. But you seem to see this in one way - that it's for some kind of personal gratification that means they are essentially voyeurs - which differs greatly from how I see it, so again it may be part of your transference. In my case, I don't expect my T to be interested in me. That's my transference. So it makes me happy to think that he is interested in people and how they understand the world. I was a neglected, overlooked child so to have an authority figure take an interest in what I think and actually listen to me is astonishing. It's not voyeuristic to me as I am intensely grateful and surprised.

Maybe your T is asking for too much detail. The million dollar question is: does it remind you of anyone else you have known?

[lemon80s]

monalisasmile: I understand your worry, if it's about your specific T then obviously we don't have an answer. I think there are many great T's out there and that their reason for wanting to know details is to help you, not for their own gratification. But I'm sure there are T's that aren't as 'perfect'. I thnk if you ever feel uncomfortable telling something they ask about you should just say so. Or ask them why this is important for your therapy. T's are there to keep boundaries, but the boundary setting responsibility is not solely the T's. It's yours too.

As always in this place, the end advise is: talk about this with your T. Gosh, how that advise get's old

Originally Posted by moonlitsky

Hello MLS

It must be very scary for you to think that perhaps your T is gaining some sort of pleasure from your pain. If that were the case then your therapst would be being very cruel. Can you tell your T about this worry? - otherwise it could get in the way of your work. Perhaps you have past experience of others getting pleasure from your pain? - if that is the case I am very sorry that happened to you.
I have lots of experience with abuse from past girlfreind who used to get a lot of pleasure from my pain, she loved to make me suffer and from my mother so maybe this has interfered with my perception of things. I don't mean that the therepist gets ANY sort of sexual gratification from this but I think that get something from being the only person allowed into some peoples lives.

I know I have also had such fears in my own therapy and when I could speak it my T was able to help me with it - it caused me to feel very small and powerless, just as I was as a child when I was being hurt.
Yes, its horrible to admit these fears and face them
As a therapist I most certainly do not gain any gratification from my client's pain - It does move me and I do enter into it in order to be able to help - but from a place of care and compassion - I do not gain anything for myself from the pain but do gain pleasure from the healing I witness.
Tthnk you for sharing your experience Moon, I really appreciate hearing that and it does ease my worries a little but I still have a niggling feeling about my own t.

Edit - I don't share my personal details with my clients to enable them to tell their stories, not to make me powerful (although the transference may be I am powerful - or voyeuristic!) - I do not want to get in their way or contaminate their transference by putting myself in to their process - the therapy is theirs and they deserve the space to get to those deep places without my stuff in their way or needing to look after me. How they see my not telling them about me is all part of the process and is valuable work in itself.
I do understand this Moon but you explained it better than I ever could. Sometimes it hurts being in such a one sided relationship but it doesn't mean its not intimate or healing. It is only lately that I understand why they don't tell us anything because it does interfere in the process greatly. I know because mine own t tells me things al the time and sometimes, well a lot of the time our sessions becaom about her.

Moon

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

Question is: is your T being stalkery or intrusive, or is this part of your transference? Is she asking out of interest or because it's relevant or because she's more nosy than she should be? You said she gave you numbers of where she stayed. Isn't that so you can contact her if you need to? When she asks questions is she trying to satisfy her curiosity or find out more about you and your world so she can help you?
TR, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I was stalked by two girls before. They followed me everywhere, my ex before we got together and this other girl too before I met my ex and maybe I am obsessed with my privacy a little too much and t asking questions sparks off some kind of panic button in me.
T gave me the numbers of hotels she stayed in because I am going on a trip in a few weeks and she has stayed in the town lots and it felt like she was trying to control me a little and she wanted me to change to her doctor before aand tells me what to say and do to people and once I went to a see a physical therapist and she said, oh we(her and her friends) dont' like her, we don't like the way she works anymore. I felt a little too much.
I dont think she is trying to help me but maybe I could be wrong here. I hope I am.

Yes, Ts are interested in people's lives. But you seem to see this in one way - that it's for some kind of personal gratification that means they are essentially voyeurs - which differs greatly from how I see it, so again it may be part of your transference. In my case, I don't expect my T to be interested in me. That's my transference. So it makes me happy to think that he is interested in people and how they understand the world. I was a neglected, overlooked child so to have an authority figure take an interest in what I think and actually listen to me is astonishing. It's not voyeuristic to me as I am intensely grateful and surprised.
Sorry to hear about your childhood , I hope things are better for you nowYES, that is exactly how I feel too but then sometimes I feel as T is using me to make herself feel better.

Maybe your T is asking for too much detail. The million dollar question is: does it remind you of anyone else you have known?

Yes it reminds me of these two girls and how they used information I gave them to find out where I was and where I was going.

Thank you for your replies so far they have been most helpful.

Originally Posted by lemon80s

monalisasmile: I understand your worry, if it's about your specific T then obviously we don't have an answer. I think there are many great T's out there and that their reason for wanting to know details is to help you, not for their own gratification. But I'm sure there are T's that aren't as 'perfect'. I thnk if you ever feel uncomfortable telling something they ask about you should just say so. Or ask them why this is important for your therapy. T's are there to keep boundaries, but the boundary setting responsibility is not solely the T's. It's yours too.

As always in this place, the end advise is: talk about this with your T. Gosh, how that advise get's old

This is great advice Lemon and I don't think it will ever get old
I like your theory about boundaries too and never actually thought about that, that we as clients are responsible for our own boundaries. It kind of gives us back some power

[Anne2.0]

Because I have worked with severely traumatized people for more than twenty years-- but as a lawyer, not a T-- I think there are more benefits to doing this work (and listening to very intimate details of people's experiences) than a sense of power or a desire to get information on people.

I also train freshly minted lawyers to do this work, and one of them once said to me, "I feel good about myself that I could do this work." What she meant was that not everybody is willing or capable to sit with people in the midst of their pain, and try to figure out how to help them. Lawyers that I've met who work in other public interest areas of law-- such as civil rights-- say the same thing. I think of it as really quite the opposite of desiring "power" over people-- when you work with people in a way that they feel heard and supported and cared for-- it's like giving them part of their own power back. And when you seem them become empowered and strong, that's a benefit in and of itself.

For me, doing this work has also been about finding a way to give back to the world, make it a better place. I could have chosen to go work in a large law firm and make the world safe for corporations, but I chose an area where I could help people who had been abused by other people. In order to help them, I have to be willing and capable of listening to the horrible things that have happened to them. So it's really the work that drives the "getting information", it is not an end into itself.

That's my perspective, anyway.

[anilam]

Ts in general: no- but you already know that. Some Ts: well yes, they could be on a power trip, voyeuristic.... i.e. fulfilling THEIR needs in therapy and not primely the client's ones. Could you maybe share more about your T? I'm gonna find your other post now...

OK sounds a bit too much- but maybe that's how she expresses that she cares? Like to show you you are not just another job for her? IDK, but I would be uncomfortable too.
Joining Lemon's advise:-))

[tinyrabbit]

I'm glad if my posts helped. I think there is lots and lots of really important information in the way you feel and how you interpret what your T says and does. Please talk to her about it!

vo·yeur
/voiˈyər/
Noun
A person who gains sexual pleasure from watching others when they are naked or engaged in sexual activity.
A person who enjoys seeing the pain or distress of others.

English teacher here Had to go to the strict denotation of the word.

I don't see this definition fitting any of the T's I have worked with. That would seem a bit warped.

Maybe the word that works better is personal satisfaction or reward. I've found my T's motivated more by compassion and a need to help others. They also just have a fascination with the workings of the human mind/personality/relationships. They like to "study" people.

Are there a few out there you might fit that definition? Oh probably, but I suspect they are in the minority.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

Well yes their primary goal is to. Help clients but they are obviously getting some of their own needs met too, they are great at telling us we do everything for a reason because we get something out of it.

I think part of what they get is doing something they like and doing something they are good at (hopefully). It is great to be able to use our skills and talents daily in our jobs. My T was telling me the other day how he is very forgetful about details, following instructions, etc. He says he is good with feelings, and images, the big picture, etc. He said this is (partly) why being a therapist was a good fit for him--he gets to use those things he is good at, and can get by without trying to do (too much) the things he is bad at. (He is not a cognitive therapist.)

Speaking as one who works with psychiatric patients each day on my job, I do not do it because I am a voyeur. I am genuinely interested in people and their lives.

[stopdog]

I don't think of them as usually going with the sexual gratification part, but I do think they like the secrecy of therapy and that they get to hear the details of others for its own sake and not because it has any real value for the client.

[unaluna]

Anne2.0 - making the world safe for corporations.

I just know I'm gonna see that as a serious slogan someday!

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

Just from replying to a post it got me thinking. Most ts most be at some level voyeuristic. They learn the most intimate and painstaking details of a clients life.
I wonder does it give them power to get invited into the clients life but not allow us into theirs.
They spend all listening to our dramas and our secrets.
Some part of the t must need to feel important. This is not a negative insight on therapists but I am curious about their reasons for becoming a t because I think my own just wants to find out information about everyone
How about your ts?

I'm not sure if I'm answering this thread correctly but I think we all want to feel important in this life. That we exist for a reason. Some of us are lucky to have a job where we can help other people, dr., lawyer, financial advisor, therapist, etc. Some of us were blessed with a gift or talent for something huge. To use that to help someone else is a beautiful thing. Many of us (myself included) work to pay the bills and don't have as much of an affect on people (or so we think). I've been to a few therapists in my life and some just sat there and allegedly "listened" but they offered little to no feedback. I wondered if they even heard what I said? One guy just kept repeating in a monotone voice "I understand" or "mmm what did you think about that?" Well, I'm paying him to do some thinking too. I want feedback. I welcome the T with questions, observations or advice. It shows me they are interested in my life. Therapy can get as personal as you let it. You can give a vague answer if you don't want to address the question directly or just say you're not ready to get into that yet (maybe you'll never be ready). I think you kind of rule where it goes but sometimes T's need to encourage us to delve into things we are reluctant to for our own good. They will help you work through bad feelings. If you're not comfortable with your therapist then maybe you are not a good fit but it kinda sounds like you do have a good relationship. BTW I'm a little nosey about T too. I like to know who I'm talking to. Someone very closed up is a turn off to me and won't hold me for long.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by hankster

Anne2.0 - making the world safe for corporations.

Lemme hang THAT out on a shingle, and watch the $$ roll in!

Thanks for getting my joke

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

Just from replying to a post it got me thinking. Most ts most be at some level voyeuristic. They learn the most intimate and painstaking details of a clients life.
I wonder does it give them power to get invited into the clients life but not allow us into theirs.
They spend all listening to our dramas and our secrets.
Some part of the t must need to feel important. This is not a negative insight on therapists but I am curious about their reasons for becoming a t because I think my own just wants to find out information about everyone
How about your ts?

I've avoided revealing what I do in healthcare because it's pretty unique and may completely 'out' me here, but I figure at this point I've revealed quite a bit on different forums and I don't think I know anyone here IRL. And I want to answer this concern, which involves revealing what I do.

In any case, I'm a certified Spanish Medical Interpreter at a major teaching hospital. This means that I interpret for Spanish-speaking/Limited English Proficient patients all over the hospital --all outpatient clinics, inpatient units, for procedures, in the ED, everything you can imagine. I've been doing this for 12 years

In the course of my work, in some ways I'm a 'fly on the wall', a witness to everything you can imagine, including situations revolving around death and dying, psychiatric units, the ED, social work, etc.

I am a very curious person, and am often interested in hearing my patients' experiences, often the most personal things that can be revealed... BUT, I am also always cognizant of the fact that it is a privilege for me to be in this position, that I am honored to be a witness, that many of my patients are very vulnerable, that the information I am privy to is private and to be respected. Some interactions may fulfill some curiosity in me, but I am 100% aware that it is about helping them, it is not about me.

Sometimes I'll interpret for a patient over years, with different providers for different issues. Sometimes for their children as well. I know a great deal about them, they know nothing about me. But I don't feel like it gives me power, though it's possible that some patients may feel this way. The more sensitive the information/situation, the more gentle my voice tends to become, the more comforting my facial expression (the few ways we interpreters can communicate personally with patients in some way). It makes me feel important only in the sense that I have the opportunity and the privilege to help them when they are at their most vulnerable, without judgment. I feel 'good' when I am able to do this, but not 'more than', certainly not as having power 'over' them. One of the ways I respect the information I'm privy to is to not 'gossip' with co-workers about patients, we share information sometimes if another interpreter is going to interpret for the same patient, and could help them better help the patient, knowing something about them beforehand.

I don't know if this answers your question. I guess I'd say that although some therapists may happen to find what is revealed in therapy 'interesting', this doesn't mean that garnering this information is for their benefit -fulfilling their curiosity may be a kind of byproduct, but not the purpose. I think a therapist can have a certain amount of healthy curiosity without making it be about them, without trying to extract information for their benefit instead of the patient's. Whatever curiosity it may fulfill, if the aim is to help the patient, the sharing of this information is about the well-being of the patient and the vulnerability of the patient is respected, the power differential (because there is one) can then interfere as little as possible in the relationship.

As with so many things in therapy, I think if it's all about the patient's benefit, their needs, not those of the therapist, then that is the key. If a therapist has his/her own agenda and is in this mostly to fulfill their own needs, then they shouldn't be practicing therapy. I think as patients sometimes we can accurately sense this and run for the hills, but other times it's just our perception and not accurate. It can be hard to tell the difference sometimes.

Originally Posted by anilam

Ts in general: no- but you already know that. Some Ts: well yes, they could be on a power trip, voyeuristic.... i.e. fulfilling THEIR needs in therapy and not primely the client's ones. Could you maybe share more about your T? I'm gonna find your other post now...

OK sounds a bit too much- but maybe that's how she expresses that she cares? Like to show you you are not just another job for her? IDK, but I would be uncomfortable too.
Joining Lemon's advise:-))

I know that she does care, that is the only sure thing I know Anilam.
She asked me last week where exactly my gf works and what she looked like, I wondered why but she lives near my gf so I think she wanted to know who she was.
She will ask me where my parents work and who my last therapist was, she just asks me a lot of personal questions.

[feralkittymom]

I don't see Ts as voyeuristic, and I do think most view the info they have as a by-product of doing the emotional work. I know that while my T seemed to remember nearly everything during my therapy, now many years later, he doesn't remember the details, but does remember the emotional truths of our work.

In most cases, I would suspect an over concern to the contrary to be tranferential. But I must say, your T's specificity of questions baffles me. What earthy purpose could knowing where someone in your life works, or what they look like, serve in YOUR therapy?

I think I would feel it necessary to directly address her curiosity: I'd want to know exactly how such info will contribute to her helping you. Otherwise, I think the nagging doubt would undermine trust in the relationship and have a negative impact on the therapy.

[stopdog]

I think the second entry is the appropriate one for therapists:

voy·eur (voi-yûr)
n.
1. A person who derives sexual gratification from observing the naked bodies or sexual acts of others, especially from a secret vantage point.
2. An obsessive observer of sordid or sensational subjects.