Do T's manipulate the Transference?

08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

I don't think this is agreed upon across all the various theories of therapy. Any number of those therapist people do see transference as bad or unhealthy or something to be avoided or not to be used in the therapy those particular therapists are hawking.

That is my opinion and experience of transference. I am sure some therapists don't see transference as a good thing, mainly those who feel threatened by it because they don't know how to work with a client as they experience it. And of course a therapy like CBT is less likely to recognize and process it then psychodynamic therapy. However, I don't think that changes the general idea that transference can be worked out in a healthy therapeutic relationship (and to a positive overall outcome if the therapist is skilled enough).

feralkittymom · Sep 27, 2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepestwaters40

To get back to the original question, if you are asking it the way I think you are-then yes, I do believe they can.

I don't believe this question is talking about a T manipulating the therapeutic relationship in an unethical way. (Tollhouse, correct me if I'm wrong.)

I believe that T's (good one's, that know what they're doing) can purposely do subtle things to see if they'll possibly trigger a transference response when they're finding it hard for a patient to make progress. Our previous blocked out fears and scary events (or what have you) as a child can greatly affect any of our future relationships-even the therapeutic one. Having blocked out feelings can prevent us from being able to actually get to the deepest parts of us-that's where the real work within ourselves is. The great thing is that when these feelings do surface within a relationship with a T, it can be used as a (hopefully) safe place to work through those issues. In this kind of healthy scenario, I believe that it is in the T's best interest to make an attempt to trigger a transference response for the benefit of the client. But not to say they always do it on purpose. And it sure isn't easy for the patient to go through it-it can be very confusing and scary for many reasons. But in the end it makes for a healthier person.

This is from my experience as a patient. I'm still going through stuff with my T, but what I've worked through already has helped me see that this "scary", "confusing" thing with her, and remembering and working through my past, is a very healthy thing. It's leading to a better me-so I don't have to let the past dictate my future relationships

I generally agree with what you've expressed here, with the exception of this idea, taken from the OP, of "triggering" the transference. I've never heard of a good T doing this. I believe what they do is observe the transference that originates with the client, and not act in ways to refute or validate or steer it directly. And the T may deliberately not act in a way that could encourage a destructive transference that could unnecessarily complicate or threaten the therapy (like my T refusing to hug me so as not to risk encouraging an erotic transference that could destabilize our relationship.) The idea is to use it as a way of understanding the client's perceptions, as you've noted.

There does come a time when the T determines it is beneficial to "resolve" the transference, which involves actively using it as a vehicle for insight. This usually happens in the latter stage of therapy. Or alternatively, if the transference turns negative and threatens the integrity of the therapy, the T will choose to resolve the transference in the hopes of salvaging the alliance.

But this is very different from the feeling of manipulation I get from the OP. And it has nothing to do with the sort of conscious manipulation of an unethical T.

ShrinkPatient · Sep 27, 2013, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think therapists try to manipulate clients. If they can do it with transference or whatever else, I think they will at least try to do so as the tool of the manipulation.

For better or worse....AGREED!!!

tooski · Sep 27, 2013, 11:23 AM

FWIW - I've been in therapy going on 3 years, and one of the most important parts of it is my transference, and I don't mean transference as a synonym for love. There's a whole bunch of feelings that I've transferred onto him and that's how the therapy is working. Sure, we talk about a lot of other things, but I'm making the progress through all the emotions that transference is bringing out. And yeah, it can be miserable and painful, but damn it, I'm getting better!! I'm understanding more, I'm changing, and that makes it all worthwhile.

I'm lucky I've got a T who will work with this because it's not easy on him either as I flail around alternating between intense anger, cold aloofness, claming up, wasting time being sarcastic and making jokes, avoiding subjects and then bringing them up 7 months later, etc. I can be a real PITA but he's hanging in there.

And yes, he did encourage the transference early on. Sometimes rather blatantly, which was kind of funny once I caught on. Was it manipulation? I suppose, but actually we both try to manipulate each other. It's kind of a power struggle, but the goal is for me to get better and I don't feel like I'm being treated unfairly or badly. I'm not sure if that's the case for the OP.

mcl6136 · Sep 27, 2013, 11:24 AM

I'm stumped.

If Ts learn, in school, that the relationship between the client and them is the primary vehicle for healing.....

and if Ts do indeed "use" the transference....

Then what does this say about the relationship?

What relationship WORTH HAVING that is authentic could possibly have MANIPULATION as its underpinning?

deepestwaters40 · Sep 27, 2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I generally agree with what you've expressed here, with the exception of this idea, taken from the OP, of "triggering" the transference. I've never heard of a good T doing this. I believe what they do is observe the transference that originates with the client, and not act in ways to refute or validate or steer it directly. And the T may deliberately not act in a way that could encourage a destructive transference that could unnecessarily complicate or threaten the therapy (like my T refusing to hug me so as not to risk encouraging an erotic transference that could destabilize our relationship.) The idea is to use it as a way of understanding the client's perceptions, as you've noted.

There does come a time when the T determines it is beneficial to "resolve" the transference, which involves actively using it as a vehicle for insight. This usually happens in the latter stage of therapy. Or alternatively, if the transference turns negative and threatens the integrity of the therapy, the T will choose to resolve the transference in the hopes of salvaging the alliance.

But this is very different from the feeling of manipulation I get from the OP. And it has nothing to do with the sort of conscious manipulation of an unethical T.

The "triggering" I talked about is just my experience and opinion on the original question that was posed by tollhouse. I do believe if a T did this for the benefit of the client (in a healthy way)...it would be very subtle and nothing too extreme. Like forgetting something important about you on purpose like tollhouse said-not really validating or refuting-just kindling. I have no idea though. I'm sure in a healthy therapeutic relationship that transference doesn't usually happen from the T "triggering" it on purpose. I think anything's possible though if a good experienced T thought it would be beneficial for the patient.

Sep 27, 2013, 02:18 PM

I'm a T and an ex client. I think I slightly manipulate my clients. I'm a CBT T so transference is ''not on my agenda ". But I go out of my way to make my clients like me because I know that it has therapeutic benefit. Then after 8 sessions we have to finish and I feel like a ****. So is the nature of short term therapy.

05:35 PM

Transference is as different for each of us as our experiences.
When it comes to transference we can only speak for ourselves.
Transference, for me, has a statutory flavor to it.
It is a touch without consent and it is more intimate than sex.
Imagine being hypnotized and then told to strip naked, then you are told that you are wearing clothes, then you were taken to a public place and snapped out of the trance that you're in. There you are naked to the amusement of whoever you been hypnotized by.
You trusted them only to find out that you were on the receiving end of a psychological manipulation just like the ones you had to grow up with.
Tell me, does that foster deeper trust or do you cling to the perpetrator in the hope that they don't post pictures of you on the internet?
Why do psychologists rely so much on transference that has the power to produce shame?
Because inside the dynamic of transference is trust and without trust psychology has no power at all.
I wanted to trade my shame for honor not incur more shame.
I would love to see therapists reduced to a $10 an hour gig with a tip jar on the edge of their desk.. how many therapists will be in the profession to help others at that point?

rainboots87 · Sep 27, 2013, 09:27 PM

I've experienced transference with my two long term Ts, though the specific term never came up with them. I don't think I was manipulated even though I was quite attached. They both sought to teach me that I can do it and don't need to rely on them. That, during the course of therapy, they could certainly be one of my sources for help, but not the sole source of help. I really have never felt that the Ts had done something to manipulate me for their goals. They both have probably felt frustrated when I get stuck, but also respected where I was in the process. I received a lot of compassionate challenges, not manipulative ploys.

From the posts here, it seems people have not-the-best Ts or are a bit cynical about their Ts. Just my thoughts.

0w6c379 · Sep 27, 2013, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

I don't think this is always the end result. i just said manipulation. I don't think heart ripping is always the result of manipulation.

The word "manipulation" has a negative connotation to me unless you are a sculptor or chiropractor. Then, to combine it with transference, as OP did, well, I think it can only lead to heartbreak. That's just my opinion, not saying it is always the case.

See the definition below. Since I don't understand the ways of psychology, maybe someone can enlighten me as to how "manipulating" anyone can have a lasting, positive, effect?

Definition of "Manipulate" from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

1 : To treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner

2 a: to manage or utilize skillfully

b: to control or play upon by artful, unfair or insidious means especially to one's own advantage

3 : To change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose

Rive. · Sep 27, 2013, 10:17 PM

Manipulation implies a very negative connotation with no subsequent positive effects.

Firstly, not all therapists adhere to a school of psychology which works with transference. And not all therapists are out to use & abuse clients. Yes, this happens and shame on these practioners but some therapists will use transference to help resolve clients' issues. I don't see this latter case as 'manipulation' but working with a therapeutic tool.

Manipulating anyone (whether by T or your friend or whoever really) is not only abhorrent but off the mark in terms of establishing a good rapport, therapy-wise or not.

Arha · Sep 27, 2013, 10:22 PM

Thanks for that Michelle25.
I have been reading this thread and feeling very uncomfortable with some of the comments, because my interpretation in manipulation was in line with 1 and 2a.

I can see that for the other meanings it is quite different.

I feel that the T should use manipulation of transference, with their skill and knowledge, to achieve the best outcome, even if it involves some difficulties for the client at some stages.
The client going into therapy must know that the T will be deliberate in their actions, reactions, and comments, and these will be done for a therapeutic reason. This is a form of manipulation. My T has occasionally gently provoked me, in order to challenge my view. This is manipulation done for the right reason.

This, of course, assumes the T is behaving in a conscious, ethical and not self-interested manner. If they are not, then there is no point continuing therapy with them, and definite potential for harm.

I expect my T to be a step ahead of me, and while I surprise him occasionally, whether through misunderstandings, or just being a different person to him with a different worldview, he usually knows what I am heading towards in therapy, and deals with it appropriately. He has occasionally made comments that show this, such as after a session where I spent much of the time in tears, that he had been expecting it.

content30 · Sep 27, 2013, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopelesspoppy

With all due respect, and with hopeful expectations that you will always express and maintain your professional and ethical boundaries- do not minimize the very real and common abusive behavior by therapists that occur regularly. You sound very naive. Transference overused? Give me a break. Get out of the books and into reality.

Gee-whiz...why the personal attack? This answer doesn't even have anything to do with what I wrote?

feralkittymom · Sep 27, 2013, 10:49 PM

I guess where I'm stuck is that I don't see how a T forgetting something feeds or causes a transference, anymore than every action and word in life results in a reaction. Nor why a T would knowingly do something that would probably result in a negative reaction for reasons of transference. (I can see how a T might do such a thing in the service of some sort of behavioral or Gestalt sort of in-the-moment expression to illustrate a perception.)

Handing a client a tissue could also be seen as "feeding" a transference (the result expected to be a feeling of being cared for, courtesy, attentiveness, etc); or, it could be seen as a simple gesture of authentic human kindness. Even just social politeness. And I don't suppose any of these intentions are mutually exclusive.

I suppose I see transference more as a macro: a backdrop; the repeated refrain. And all the individual interactions as happening on a micro level: not insignificant, at all, but not more than the sum of their parts. From within the perspective and experience of therapy, it's all intensified, magnified, and sometimes, more a projection of the client than the intention of the T. But then, that is the stuff that makes the process of transference.

Sep 28, 2013, 07:48 AM

It cracks me up.
People are mostly enraptured, enthralled and in love with the process and a week from now that same process can turn their lives inside out.
Please, do me a favor and remember in the midst of your hurt that you do support all the processes.

Sep 28, 2013, 09:08 AM

I can only answer for my therapist. No she doesn't. The unconscious creates the transference.

Sep 28, 2013, 09:56 AM

And so...a therapist deliberately withholding info about themselves thus becoming a blank screen that you can project on a therapist allows a client to engage in a dynamic that the therapist is well aware of.
What is it a don't ask don't tell policy?
To me it smells like primrose path to me.
If the therapist know about it and allows it, then it is statutory abuse based in psychological manipulation.
You can't ask a child for forgiveness because they can't give informed cosent from a place of developed maturity.
In other words, they will feel differently from an adult perspective when they realize that the person asking for forgiveness was cashing in on the childs natural inclination to forgive.
It becomes statutory.

It also becomes statutory equal to rape when it involves sex.

It is statutory when the influence of a therapist uses manipulatively the dynamic of transference of a client and doesn't take any action except the excuses they give to themselves such as ...
Insulating themselves from failure while exposing the client to the detriment thereof or using their influence to debrief a person out of transference.

It is as manipulative as when my mother would get me to tell people I fell or no one will believe you or or I wasn't touching your penis I was tucking in your shirt you silly boy.

It is manipulative.

Sep 28, 2013, 10:03 AM

How would anyone in here feel if the person they are having sex with told you that they have an std but because you consented to sex its ok.
Are you going to tell me that you wouldn't feel emotionally manipulated?

Hopelesspoppy · Sep 28, 2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by content30

Gee-whiz...why the personal attack? This answer doesn't even have anything to do with what I wrote?

I apologize. If you see my replies to other posts on this thread, I interpreted what you wrote as a dismissive accusation of people here playing the "transference" card when their therapists makes them unhappy. Many of us are victims of real abusive and harmful behavior. So, through my lens I saw what you wrote and got my hackles up instinctively. Again, I meant nothing personal and I honestly do wish you the best in your studies.

Menu

Do T's manipulate the Transference?

My Support Forums