Thinking about T's divorce....

Posting in IT's thread about T's husband made me think about my T and her divorce. It bothers me--triggers me, and I know I can't/won't discuss it with her. It's the one area that I know is off-limits and makes me feel ashamed to bring up with her.

The whole scenerio was weird. She and her H traveled a lot to exotic places. I know that because, obviously, she canceled sessions and told me where she went. Then, when this past year she didn't travel anymore, my gut feeling told me something was wrong. I asked her and first she said her marriage was fine, and in the next instant she said, "no, I was right", that she was getting divorced. She said she was going to tell me at some point, and that some clients knew because it was relevant to their issues.

I wanted to hug her after she told me, but I had a cold, so I didn't. She said she was fine, which I'm not sure I believed. So I got the idea gradually, that it was her idea, or probably mutual, that he wasn't leaving her. I didn't understand how anyone would want to leave someone as wonderful as my T!

So, I lost some trust in her because she's not as wonderful as I thought or she wouldn't be getting divorced. I know that's not logical. I felt betrayed in a way because she implied that her marriage was good, having been married so long, and telling me you have to work hard in a marriage. Of course that was 3 years ago.

It made me question my own marriage more. If T can get divorced, so can I. But I'm not T and I'm not getting divorced after 40 years.

T is human and has a life of her own. Of course. But now I wonder if she didn't talk about him because they were having problems, or she wouldn't have anyway. She talked about her daughters who were at school. It always seemed weird that she wouldn't answer any questions about her H.

I needed to get this off my chest. I know my T's personal life is really none of my business, but she's open about her hobbies, which is why we discuss art and photography, and I show her my photos and artwork. I know a lot about her. I guess it was a shock to find out she was getting divorced. The transference part is saying "you shut me out"! I also feel weird about times I told her that I wanted to come between she and her H. I said I wanted to break down the door, and go with them on their trips.

I feel guilty about it, though that's ridiculous. I have confused feelings about the whole thing. I hate surprises, and it was a surprise.

I'm not obsessing about this. Really, I'm not. This thread just poured out of me for some reason, after I posted in IT's thread. If anyone has any insights about my feelings, please respond, but I already know it's "none of my business" and "I need to concentrate on my own life." I'm not trying to be manipulative, just needed to get this out of my head right now.

It always seemed weird that she wouldn't answer any questions about her H.

Uh.....therapy isn't about you finding out about your therapists life. It's about your therapist helping you with yours. While I think any normal person would wonder about their therapist, wish them well, and wouldn't want anything negative to happen in their private life, it shouldn't be expected that you'd be privy to any of this information at anytime, unless it is helpful for YOUR therapy.

Be mindful that this is likely a very difficult time for her. You should be thankful she's not talking about it because it's not HER therapy session, it's yours.

My now xT used to take 2 long extravagant vacations every year and hasn't for the past 2 years. Also she is selling her house. Just a few years ago she added a second story office to her house. She isn't retiring because she told me she'd be getting an office. It is driving me crazy to know what is going on with her but she'd never tell and she'd be mad at me if I asked.

She may not want to discuss this because:

A: It´s not really none of your buisness as a client, unless she feels it would be beneficial to you?
B: She was really uncomtable already when you told her you were looking him up on Facebook ?
C: You told her you wanted to break down the door to their bedroom?

Yes, you're right that it's not HER therapy session, and that therapy isn't about my finding out about her life. Thank you. I know that already, but I always had trouble with that fact. I have always looked up stuff about people I wanted to know more about, even before internet. It's a problem; it's what I needed help with, and still do.

When I guessed about something being wrong, I couldn't stop myself from asking her, though I was ashamed that I did. She's an open person and has answered questions I've asked her about her life, but not anything so personal. Every T is different. Mine had information about her hobbies and about her kids on her website, and told me when she had to take one of them to college. I felt compassion for her when she told me about her divorce. I'm not one who can see my T as my accountant or someone like that. It's something I've struggled with in all of my therapy with different Ts. Recently she had to cancel an appointment and when I saw her, I told her something about letting go, in MY life, that happened that week. She told me that resonated with her that day, and I KNEW it was about her divorce. She told me, not in details, and I almost cried in compassion.

In regards to asking her questions, I was just curious. Once I asked her what her favorites song was, favorite color, food, what she was afraid of, etc. She said it was fine to ask her and she answered everything.

Yes, for all of those reasons. I don't expect her to discuss it now. I just said I had feelings about the whole scenario, not that she didn't discuss it with me. I feel weird about it all, that's all.

My finding out about the divorce is over. I'm just saying I have a lot of feelings about the way it all happened, not wanting to rehash that it's not the purpose of therapy, etc. I wanted to figure out, maybe, why it still bothers me. I'm sorry if I don't make myself clear in my threads.

My former T talked about her H sometimes--his personality traits. She didn't avoid speaking of him totally. I had another T whose H worked in the office and she sometimes mentioned him too. That's why I said it seemed "weird" for my T to be so adamant about not mentioning her H at all.

I can relate to this. I can SOOOO relate to this! When my t was on vacation with a gf in a European country. I happened to see a newsclip about a 400 year old artifact being unearthed by a flood or something in that exact country while they were there. When he returned, of course I had to mention it to him, saying, I see your gf was in the news! (Implying his gf was old) Not TOO hostile!!

I think it comes from not feeling like part of my family of origin. My mother and brother excluded me, I instinctively knew I wasn't really safe alone with my father, and I wasn't encouraged to bond with anyone in the extended family. I honestly didn't know my parents talked to each other, and I didn't know they discussed me. They actively hid this from me. I think that in a normal family, there is more interaction, ie more positive interaction. We're not left in the dark so much.

So I would snipe at current t and previous ts. It's safe - safer, anyway. Can you accept that maybe it's a child's natural curiosity and an "artifact" of having been left out of the loop for so long? I think if you can feel included in t, and on pc, symbolically rather than literally, then one will eventually feel more comfortable in real life. Like I was symbolically at my t's last dinner when he took my suggestion and made coleslaw with blue cheese. He thought ENOUGH of me and my taste.

((((((((((((((( rainbow )))))))))))))))

I'm afraid I have no brilliant insights about your feelings, just wanted to let you know I read this. Although you and I are very different, I think we share in common a very strong attachment to our T's. I do have the urge to know more about him, although I know the nature of that is different in me than it is in you. It would absolutely be blindsiding if I found out he was getting a divorce, and it would be a very bizarre mix of feelings indeed. Sadness, because I want him to be happy; jealousy, because even if we were both single I'm still not an option; curiosity, because wtf happened?

I guess I did have two reactions that kind of resonate with me. The first is that there are many reasons why she might have been open about everything but her H, and it may or may not have anything to do with marital problems (and even if it did, it may or may not have been conscious). Unfortunately, it's impossible to know. But I did want to suggest that this may simply have been a thing that she and her H had agreed to and found to work, for reasons that are very specific to their marriage. There are certain agreements that my own H and I have that might seem odd or exceptional to other people, but we made them based on what has worked for us over time. Who knows, maybe 20 years ago some freak thing happened where a disclosure she made was somehow upsetting to H (perhaps it was someone who knew him), so from then on she felt it would just be easier to leave him out of the equation. It's so hard to know.

I think I understand where you're coming from, feeling guilty about saying you wanted to come between her and her H. I know you know this is not rational, but I can see how it would be disturbing on some level. I'm going to get a little fruity-therapisty and suggest that perhaps on some level, even though this was an issue with you before, you developed this very specific feeling as an unconscious reaction to very subtle cues from T. Maybe in a way her job *was* interfering with her marriage, and you picked up on this in the form of that fantasy. I'm just throwing it out there -- I don't think that's absolutely true, it's just one of a million possibilities. But I can get why it would rattle you to have said this to her, and to then have her divorce. Without the background information, it's hard for one's brain not to put together whatever small, poorly-fitting pieces it has, since that's all it's got.

[Oh, and also, I know you know this, but... getting divorced doesn't necessarily make her a bad wife -- try not to let it color your opinion of her! I've known couples who were just a pair of great people that couldn't get along, and were even able to be friends after divorcing... they just didn't work, and it takes people varying amounts of time to realize that.]

Dude. Hilarious.

Rainbow, this would be one area where I can really relate. If my T was getting a divorce, I would be totally thrown for a loop, and it would open up floodgates that I keep firmly closely by keeping in mind all of the time that he is married. I can appreciate that this is a struggle even though you know it's technically none of your business.

I thought you were very clear. I struggle with similar things. I think I know that my T was divorced, and now has a new partner of unknown legal relationship, and the names and approximate age of his kids. I also know he plays tennis. Even knowing that feels weird. He's offered to confirm or deny, but I know it's not the issue so I didn't ask. The issue is why do I have a weird feelings about knowing personal information. I haven't figured out any answers so I'm interested in this thread.

That's funny about making the remark about T's gf being in the news.
I don't have the same background as you but I did feel left out of things during my childhood. I wanted to be part of things with my peers, but I didn't fit in--I was too shy, I didn't know how to dance, didn't wear the clothes that were in style, etc. The feeling is one of being excluded, and I still feel that now. You're right. I keep trying to fit in but it all comes down to having to be my own person. I like this forum because I usually feel included, except on The Couch, as that triggers the "trying so hard to be included" from childhood, I think. Interesting to be included in T's life symbolically. I do feel good when I give her something I've baked and she says how much she likes it! She doesn't go ahead and bake it though. I see your point, though. I felt excluded that I didn't KNOW about her marital situation for a long time. Why should I have known? Still, it triggered "not knowing" from the past. Thanks for a thought-provoking post.

Thanks, Fuzzy. Especially for my favorite spinning hearts.

Sally, thanks for supporting and validating my feelings. I was afraid I'd started another thread where people keep telling me how my T's life has nothing to do with me. She tells me that herself when she keeps saying "it's NOT about me". I am SO tired of hearing that even though I know it's true.

Once I asked my T about her H and she asked what I wanted to know. I asked if he liked to travel too, and she answered something like "yes, very much". It felt like pulling teeth. If I were to guess, I'd say they were having problems all along but were waiting until their kids were in college. When I tried to ask something else once, I could tell she was angry. Then there was the time, last year I think, when I drew a picture of her family, and put me in there too. I named her husband, her, the kids, the pets, and then said "I'm the baby." I think this may have been when she was already separated. I feel bad that I did that when she probably didn't have an intact family, but of course I didn't KNOW.

Or, it could have been an agreement between them not to discuss him at all in therapy like you suggest.

I know my T couldn't have been a "bad" wife; she was sincere when she told me how you have to work in a marriage. I'm sure she tried very hard, and she WAS married over 25 years. I think her H was just a creep! Or maybe I want to think that.

Thanks, mkac. I know a little about your feelings for your T, and maybe his for you?? I can see how you'd be struggling if he got divorced. I'll pray that doesn't happen!

I have a weird feeling too, about knowing, and also about my guessing correctly. I was hoping that I was wrong, but I wasn't! I felt like I had psychic powers at first, but my T said I'm just very perceptive. Even a few weeks ago, I felt weird. When she had to cancel my appointment the night before because she said she had to go downtown, I immediately thought it had to do with her divorce but I didn't say anything, of course. I saw her the next day instead, and that's when I brought up MY feelings about having to let go. I don't even remember what that was about! At the end of the session, she thanked me and told me my comments resonated with her. I said, "I thought yesterday might be about your divorce" and she said it was. I looked at her and said I wanted to cry. But I couldn't. It was one of those moments I won't forget--I felt connected to T but not in an inappropriate way.

Writing this is not triggering. I think it's because T and I shared most of the stuff about her divorce on an adult level. I might have some child feelings about it, but the little we talked about it was from the adult part of me. I even bought her a little stuffed animal to replace one of her pets, and she appreciated it. I care about her. A lot of the caring is NOT transference, and it doesn't mess me up like the transference stuff does.

I got upset today about finding out a tiny thing about my T that makes her seem less than perfect... I can't imagine how you must be feeling about a divorce. It would be driving me crazy with sadness. I like to idealize my T and to think she's some sort of God. And I would probably be thinking about how if she couldn't make it work with her H, what if there is something that will make her unable to work with me? I hope you are able to find some sort of closure with this. I understand why you wouldn't want to bring this up with her so as not to upset her.

It's been about 6 months since I found out about the divorce and I haven't been dwelling on it. I didn't realize how bothered I still am about it until answering the thread about husbands. It did cause me to lose some of my trust in her, and to feel sad because I just couldn't imagine (and still can't, to some degree) her getting a divorce. I thought she had the perfect life: long, stable marriage, enough money to travel to foreign countries, a job she likes, good kids in college, a home, and a cat and dog. The perfect suburban life! I was so envious of her! When the thought first came to me that something may be amiss, I was in a state of disbelief! I didn't know what to do, but I knew I had to ask her.

I actually brought it up in an email first, as something "bothering me". So she had time to think whether she would tell me or not. She had decided NOT to tell me, and when she said, "everything is all right; we're not traveling so much", I responded "I'm glad". Then she said "no, it's not all right" and told me. She said she couldn't be dishonest with me. Then she told me it hasn't and won't affect her work, and that she's "fine".

I realized in the next few weeks after that, that she really was fine, and decided it was she who wanted the divorce. I did bring it up once. I said "I thought you had a good marriage--all your trips--" and she answered that "yes, it was good. I said something about "but you know about therapy and all...." or something like that and she said "that doesn't always help".

So, trying to remember that conversation...I guess we discussed it a little. I may have even told her it made me not trust her as much. I did feel bad discussing it even that little bit. I even told her that I was scared that she'd meet someone and move away! She told me that her work is here and she has no plans to move away. I needed that reassurance, because she's from another state, and I imagined her moving back.

When she told me, she even asked if I noticed she wasn't wearing her wedding ring, but I hadn't ever noticed her wedding ring or engagement ring--ever!!! I notice her bracelets, but not rings.

Soon after I found out, she got contact lenses. I got scared again because I saw the changes starting! I started thinking that the T whom I'd known for 3 years was a stranger!! It confused me more than I like to admit.

I don't think I posted much about her divorce at the time but I can see now that I haven't finished processing it. Thinking about it makes me sad. Many couples get divorced, but I did not think my T was going to be one of those couples!

Sorry you are struggling with this!

A similar issue w/my main T---I am frankly, jealous of his now-adult children. However, I do ask about his life and his son and daughter are part of that.

I get upset and jealous and T, rightfully, says that he is frustrated that I ask about his life, he shares, then I react badly to it. He tells me that he wants to share but is reluctant because of my jealousy.

So if you want to have T tell you more, reacting poorly will hinder them from sharing. Although, there is always stuff they don't share, because it is YOUR session

Honestly, I'd be struggling too- but more with stg like would he still be a good T (too stressed to do his job ect.)- God, I'm selfish

The only thing that came to my mind is that it all made you think about your marriage- if she's getting a divorce could/should you? Maybe getting a divorce was stg that was not an option- for religious reasons, upbringing...
And yes, I think it's strange that she shares about her kids and not H- could be due to the transference? IDK
However, I'd be uncomfortable if my T was telling me anything about his family- his interests/hobbies/education/whatever are fine but other ppl? Weird. Funny, how every client is different.
Somehow you are disappointed in your T for getting a divorce- on one hand I think it's understandable- for example even her stressing how much hard work marriage is implies that divorce is a failure- but on the other, isn't it better to realise when marriage isn't working (no matter how hard you tried) and get a divorce (hopefully a decent one)? Yeah and my T's divorced too, second marriage- 14 yr younger wife- so stereotypical.

BTW I think your posts are generally well phrased and you show a great understanding for your (and other posters) behaviour.

Also, I don't think it should be off limits- you should be able to tak about it in session- explore your reaction about it (not talking about her actual divorce- why/how/who) but why you think less of her now, why is it so important for you... keep it about you not her.
A good T should be OK with it.