Ts saying I love you

Yes, it's not out of the blue, it's been several years and multiple times a week that I see him, and it has been in response to me saying it first. Even so, I don't understand what it means for either of us to say it. I think that is puzzling to him, even almost hurtful. It's not that I don't believe him, I just don't understand it. We probably need to talk about it more.

What does it mean for you, when you say it? I have heard you say before that you want to marry your t, so is it in a sexual way? Would you say it has benefited you?
Don't feel any obligation to reply Hankster, I am just curious

I know of all the ethical reasons why a T shouldn't express love for a client but the tree-hugging idealist in me thinks that the world could do with a lot more love and that it's a lovely thing to be loved and to feel that. Peace, dudes

I'm in total agreement with you..

Even if it's just within the 'therapeutic' realm.

I'm not a tree hugger (hee hee), but an original California girl born in the 60's! Peace and love!

I agree. I think saying "I love you" isn't the best idea.

However, I don't understand why it wouldn't be ethical to encourage dependency and transference.

Learning to depend is a big part of helping having a secure attachment with your therapist. Transference can help you to better understand how you see/act in relationships.

Hmm. First of all, when I ask him to marry me, it isn't for the sex! It's more to satisfy my mother, that I'm finally okay and being taken care of, she can wash her hands of me. It's so everything will be settled - which is her fantasy, not mine, but I act it out by compulsively asking him (and entering into bad relationships in the past).

The times I have said, I have just been emotionally overcome. I just wanted to SAY it. Maybe he was particularly understanding, or for some reason I felt close. It still feels very hazy in my mind. I don't have anything concrete to relate it to. I will tend to let things drift. Let years go by. I feel like it's too late now for me to do a lot of things that a younger person might take on, like a family or career, but it would be nice if I could get this personal stuff figured out.

In my case, and I may not be alone in this, a male authority/paternal figure, who I am/have been at times very vulnerable with saying "I love you" has certain connotations for me. The transference, at times, for me, is tricky, and -for me- "I love you" is not necessarily benign in this context.

If I were anywhere near a regressed state and/or talking about trauma when such words were said, it would be absolutely disastrous for me.

I do want him to *show* me love/concern/care, etc., but saying "I love you" is not appropriate. Not for me. And to do so, in my context, would indicate a huge rupture in attunement, at best, more about him and his needs than mine, at worst.

As others have said, context is everything. In my case, it would not make me want more, or fantasize about having a different kind of relationship, make me more dependent, nor would it make me feel special (at least except in a really gross way), but it would be a very bad idea, it would potentially have serious repercussions. Maybe if and when I've completely worked through the transference, it wouldn't.

And I think, as some have said, for those who have difficulty with boundaries, fantasies of enmeshment, fantasies of being special (more than the usual), etc. I think it could potentially be detrimental in that type of therapeutic relationship as well; maybe not immediately, but at least in the medium to long-term.

Words can be so full of meaning. Use with caution.

My t and i say i love you just about every time we talk. We mean is as a mutual, caring, supportive thing... I dont know quite how to explain. We are also (when we are in the same country ) very huggy. However-- this seems to be both of us a basis of our personalities. I am a school administrator,and every day i have kids coming up to me for me to hug them, and we say i love you, i must say it 20 times a day to kids. I am just an affectionate and loving person, and my t is the same way with people.my t is a professional, and so am i when i am at work with those kids. Its part of my educational philosophy about what kids need (more love, and to feel safe at school so their brains are ready to learn) & my t has a similar philosophy with her relationship based therapy.

My t said it once - at my last 'in person' appointment before she moved out of state a year ago, and she followed it quickly with "therapeutically, of course". I rolled my eyes at her because well we just had that kind of relationship lol. I didn't have to say "duh, therapeutic is all it's ever been and should be." I can't believe we did phone sessions for almost as long as the in-person ones.

Anyway, I think her saying "i love you" as we ended our in-person work helped me transition to the phone sessions as easily as I did, and also led me to being able to admit to the level of attachment that I felt to her. And then speaking that attachment out loud to her, broke the spell it had over me so to speak, and led to some really intense work. As crazy as it sounds, her moving and going to phone sessions was the best thing for my therapy.

I need to learn how to type short replies. heh.

By the ethical standards (at least in CA) saying "I love you" to the client is defined as an unethical behavior and therapists get disciplined by their licensing boards for doing so. I am a licensed therapist, that's why I know this. How you want to deal with it is up to you. Running a mile from this therapist, as someone suggested here, sounds like a good suggestion to me.

Thanks for this Hankster,
Must be tiring trying to please the mom all the time.
I am considering getting married too so my mom will leave me alone....Bloody mothers.
I hope you can work through this with your t too.

Is there a source you can give me for this information? I can't find it in a quick scan of either the legal or ethical guidelines, and I'm curious about it. Thanks!

I would like to see the source also. I just looked through the ethics guidelines for California and they never get that specific.

I disagree. Aside from something egregious like a T having a sex with a client, I don't think you can make blanket statements about what is unethical under "any" circumstances. I don't think someone on the outside can declare what is right for all people, in all types of therapy. I think it all depends on the context and the individual relationship between the client and the T.

Love can absolutely exist within the confines of a professional relationship, which includes maintaining healthy boundaries. It exists in my therapeutic relationship and I find it very helpful. I do not think a T growing to love a long-term client means that a T is projecting their feelings onto you. I think if the T and the client have been working together long enough and have developed a deep connection during the course of that work, a T's love and unconditional positive regard for the client can be completely genuine and a very useful part of therapy. The key here is how it impacts the individual client. While hearing your T say "I love you" would cause you to get confused and blur your boundaries, for others (like myself), it would not. A sign of a good T is knowing how to respond appropriately to different clients.

It should also be said that some doctors, teachers and other professionals also say "I love you" to their patients/students. For instance, I have a friend who had cancer and went through a few rounds of chemotherapy over the course of a few years. Her doctor did say "I love you," and I think that was entirely appropriate. It made her feel safe and cared for to know that her doctor had grown to love her as a patient and was doing everything she could to save my friend's life. As a teenager, I also had a special teacher who mentored me, encouraged me, supported me, and said "I love you." Since I didn't have a mom or anyone else to love me or care for me at home, having that teacher around made a world of difference in my life. It's all about context. I don't think there can be hard and fast rules about platonic love in professional relationships.

Thinking about your threads in conjunction with another, I'm also a bit confused about how you decide what you think is ethical or unethical in therapy. In your previous thread, you said that you thought it was appropriate for your Psych Teacher to tell her student that she should change therapists, and then begin her student herself, at her home, on a weekend, by holding her for 30 minutes at a time. You also said that you felt jealous of this kind of affection from a teacher/T, and wished you could have it, too. When some of us expressed that this kind of a dual relationship seemed unethical, you said you felt that it was totally appropriate. Personally, crossing the professional boundaries and doing therapy with a student seems way more unethical than a T expressing feelings of love or care to an existing, long-term client. I'm not sure what country you're in, but in the US, many Universities have explicit rules that prevent them from having dual relationships with students, while there are no laws about what a T can say to a client during session.

To me, it seems as though what your friend is looking for from this Psych Teacher who is holding her is actually a type of love. Physical affection is usually an outward expression of the love you feel for someone. And if you say you wish you had this kind of affection and care from a T/teacher also, isn't that also a desire for love? Why would it be more okay to show love through extended physical touch, than through words? If anything, in therapy, I think it might be the other way around. For a client who has issues with boundaries or transference, I think extended holding would probably make things even more confusing than words.

Very well articulated

BTW, I am sorry if this thread is triggering in anyway.
I am starting to see the beifits of ts saying I love you and how it is helpful and unhelpful to others. Each to their own I say and whatever gets you through is fine with me- as long as my t doesn't say it to me.
I also think for a t to say that, they have to be brave and willing to take risks and I nadmire any t who says it as long as they are being genuine and don't have alterior motives.
It is a strong word and shouldn't be used lightly.

Everyone needs to be nurtured to grow- I don't think it is a crime to want that, especially from a t because it is meant to be safe. I said I was jealous of my friend for getting what she needed and that I would like it but I would expect my t not to give it to me because it would not be in my best interest for her to give it to me because where I am at in my own therapy. A t needs to use descretion. My friend on the other hand is different to me, she does not have abandonmet issues or attachment problems and she is a lot older than me so giving that to her was a good decision on behalf of the t. My friend did not ask for it, nor desire it. The t thought it would be good for her. This has nothing to do with this thread though? I am curious as to why you seem to have such strong reactions to my threads?

Thanks for this reply Ultramar, it was beautifully written and so tender.

When I first started therapy, if my therapist said I love you I would have freaked out. I didn't want to be her favorite, and really any caring was a bit much. Each session I pretty much started over with this stranger who also happened to show up in that office week after week with me.

Over the years together we have added layer and layer of trust and connection. I know she cares, and I do too. She tries really hard to help me. I feel loving feelings towards her and I suspect she does for me too.

When I finally do work into the place in my therapy where I can tell her about those loving feelings, I certainly hope she is with me in that. In fact, if she didn't it would trigger all sorts of rejection in me. That moment would feel to me as if I graduated into another deeper level of connection, and I've worked hard for this. I'm feeling it now! I would want her to be with me in moment.

That sounds like a lovely balanced relationship Turtle. Thank for describing the process of how it came about so well.

I've been a Spanish Medical Interpreter for over 10 years now. I have been present, at this point, at hundreds and hundreds of provider-patient encounters and have never heard a provider (doctor, nurse, etc.) say "I love you" to a patient.

However, for example, I have a terrible chronic pain condition and a Pain specialist who is wonderful and goes above and beyond for me. He *shows* me he cares and to me, that's what counts. And it would be utterly inappropriate for him to say 'I love you' to me or any other patient. At the end of the day, too, uttering the words doesn't make it true --it's what is exhibited, freely given, what is experienced together, this is what's healing (and helpful).

In some contexts I suppose it's okay. But it's not just about 'boundaries,' that's too simple for such a powerful phrase.

I had a patient I worked with for several months -a 10 year old girl who was dying of cancer. I grew to love her, I really did, and I exhibited this love in the only and best ways I could in my position: my tone of voice, my eyes, my gestures... But to say to her "I love you?" No, and neither did any of her many providers, though most of them showed her love in different ways. Those words, that phrase, that was for her parents, who said it to her often: she needed to hear it from them, not the professionals who cared for her, as much as they may have loved her. Everyone related to her as they should have, and this kept her safe...and I do think she felt loved.

The moment my "T" says that, I'm outta there. Hugely inappropriate, as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with those who said it depends on the context. My T said he loved me once, and it was absolutely the right thing to do. Here: http://forums.psychcentral.com/3147552-post36.html

I can't think of anything else he could have said that would have been right in that moment. Our therapeutic alliance has been about 2000% stronger ever since. The fact he could say that when I was being so obnoxious to him really stunned me.

He said it in a safe parent way. It didn't feel inappropriate whatsoever.

A couple weeks ago I told my T that although she had never said she loved me, that I felt that she did. She said rather tenderly, "I'm glad you picked that up. I do care about you a lot." I find it slightly irritating that she wouldn't just come out and say "yes, I do," but at least she didn't try to deny it! I think most T's won't say "I love you" even if they do feel that way, because they are afraid of letting their needs into the room too much, but there can be moments as in TR's example when it really would be the most appropriate thing to say.

I am one of those whose T says "I love you." In our 3+ years, she hasn't said it often, and didn't say it until about 2 years into our relationship (and we've seen each other 2x/week almost the whole time). It was the right decision--for us as individuals, for our relationship, and for the particular situations. For example, when I was struggling with feeling suicidal and I went to a crisis walk-in clinic at the local psychiatric hospital, I talked to her right after they had admitted me and she said "This was the best decision for you, I'm proud of you, I'm not abandoning you--I'll be here when you're released, and I love you." I won't forget this. And there have been other such times--after a mini-rupture in our relationship has been repaired, for example--and they are meaningful. Before she said I love you, we had several conversations about what this means to me, to us (I'd said it to her w/o her reciprocating). This helped, too, for me to understand what it meant--we're very close, have a deep level of caring, and I share my deepest secrets/parts with her--and what it didn't--it's not the same love she has for her husband, family, and closest friends.

I had another T who has said I love you. Part of the initial question was can it make it hard to leave the relationship. With my first T, it made it easier in a sense. She lives on another continent, where I was living for a couple of years (we're both from the US). Knowing that there is this loving presence across the sea when life feels bleak has been a source of light and inspiration. 5 years after we finished our work, we still stay in touch via 2-3 emails/year. This worked for us--again, the people we were individually, our relationship, and the situation.

I was sorry to see that so many people weren't more open to relationships where "I love you" is exchanged--it's not right for everyone (and you don't have to want it for yourself), but in the US at least it certainly isn't unethical said in a non-romantic way.