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  #1  
Old Oct 25, 2013, 06:26 PM
Onward2wards Onward2wards is offline
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I'm very pleased with how self-help efforts and therapy have uncovered my negative core beliefs/schemas, where they come from and which self-defeating behaviors stem from them. I am able to recognize much better now when they are active, and I am able to challenge them.

The one major problem I still have is the self-defeating behaviors seem to have a mind of their own - I can understand all this on a thinking level, but I still struggle on a feeling/doing level. One very negative social experience on a stressful day, for example, and I can feel myself slouching over and acting the part of a mortified, angsty teenager within minutes. This learned response sends some kind of feedback to my thinking brain and I start to re-experience exaggerated negative thoughts. I can then challenge them fairly well, but the "whole body" feeling of defeat and anxiety still persists - then I "feel depressed" again.

How do you overcome this kind of behavioral response and create the ones you want? It's really annoying how persistent it is.
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  #2  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 02:00 AM
Anonymous37903
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Sometimes it's the ones we don't want we need to embrace
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  #3  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 02:00 AM
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InTheShadows InTheShadows is offline
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There is a book called "Constructive Living" by David K Reynolds. It posits that you don't have to feel like doing something in before you do it. The only thing required is action. An example; the sink is full of dishes, but you're exhausted from a full day of work and don't "feel" like doing the dishes. The feeling doesn't matter. Constructive Living says you do the dishes regardless. After your done with the dishes you will experience the positive feelings you were waiting for. It boils down to doing in order to feel.

I hope that makes sense. The book is based off of Japanese Morita Therapy.
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  #4  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 04:33 AM
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CantExplain CantExplain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
There is a book called "Constructive Living" by David K Reynolds. It posits that you don't have to feel like doing something in before you do it. The only thing required is action. An example; the sink is full of dishes, but you're exhausted from a full day of work and don't "feel" like doing the dishes. The feeling doesn't matter. Constructive Living says you do the dishes regardless. After your done with the dishes you will experience the positive feelings you were waiting for. It boils down to doing in order to feel.

I hope that makes sense. The book is based off of Japanese Morita Therapy.
I think that would only feed my resentment. Ignoring you feelings doesn't sound healthy.
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  #5  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 06:14 AM
Anonymous200320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheShadows View Post
There is a book called "Constructive Living" by David K Reynolds. It posits that you don't have to feel like doing something in before you do it. The only thing required is action. An example; the sink is full of dishes, but you're exhausted from a full day of work and don't "feel" like doing the dishes. The feeling doesn't matter. Constructive Living says you do the dishes regardless. After your done with the dishes you will experience the positive feelings you were waiting for. It boils down to doing in order to feel.

I hope that makes sense. The book is based off of Japanese Morita Therapy.
That sounds like something that will work for some people some of the time. Which is fair enough, but if it actually says that you will experience positive feelings afterwards, I respectfully disagree. You might experience positive feelings afterwards, and it's possible that you'll escape additional negative feelings, such as guilt for not having done the dishes. But there are never any absolutes, and there's no automatic correlation in matters of psychological functioning. His model sounds like something that works for people who are fundamentally healthy, in order to get away from procrastination. But when you do the thing you don't feel like doing, and feel a million times worse afterwards, then it doesn't really matter what some author claims in a book that has nothing to do with you or your life.

Also, if the author says that the feeling doesn't matter he's being illogical. If the feeling didn't matter, then it wouldn't matter that "doing" would lead to "feeling".

I'm not saying that the theory is always wrong or that it doesn't make sense. It's just not applicable for all people (like pretty much everything else in the world....)
  #6  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 06:21 AM
Anonymous200320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward2wards View Post
I'm very pleased with how self-help efforts and therapy have uncovered my negative core beliefs/schemas, where they come from and which self-defeating behaviors stem from them. I am able to recognize much better now when they are active, and I am able to challenge them.

The one major problem I still have is the self-defeating behaviors seem to have a mind of their own - I can understand all this on a thinking level, but I still struggle on a feeling/doing level. One very negative social experience on a stressful day, for example, and I can feel myself slouching over and acting the part of a mortified, angsty teenager within minutes. This learned response sends some kind of feedback to my thinking brain and I start to re-experience exaggerated negative thoughts. I can then challenge them fairly well, but the "whole body" feeling of defeat and anxiety still persists - then I "feel depressed" again.

How do you overcome this kind of behavioral response and create the ones you want? It's really annoying how persistent it is.
The thing that seems to work for me is to talk about it to a professional. The thing about talk therapy is that it creates new pathways in the brain, when we repeatedly challenge our thinking in dialogue with somebody who listens and engages with us without judging, but also without accepting everything we say (because then the old pathways would be reinforced).

Another thing that works for me is to simply avoid social situations, but that's not necessarily something I recommend to others. It's a very personal thing, whether avoiding other people is beneficial or not.
  #7  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 07:10 AM
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InTheShadows InTheShadows is offline
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First of all, it doesn't say ignore the feeling. It is about not relying on feelings to do what needs to be done. If you spend your whole life waiting to feel in the mood to do something, you will be waiting a long time.

Secondly, I didn't say this theory worked for everybody all of the time. I was responding to a friend who I thought would find value in this.

To Mastadon:

There is nothing in this world or the therapeutic world that works for everybody all of the time. It doesn't mean that those things don't have value. If talk therapy works for you, then go ahead, spend your time talking to somebody else. It doesn't mean you have to reject everything else.

You said, "But when you do the thing you don't feel like doing, and feel a million times worse afterwards, then it doesn't really matter what some author claims in a book that has nothing to do with you or your life.".

When has anybody ever done something they didn't want to do and felt a million times worse? The answer, never. Keep in mind too that an author of a book could also be a therapist you value talking to. You don't have to tear other people or other theories down to build yourself or the theory you find works up.
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Rzay4
  #8  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 08:27 AM
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Favorite Jeans Favorite Jeans is offline
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I think just keep doing what you're doing. Sometimes the deeper change takes time. You're already aware of how you slip back into a difficult space. Your next step will be practising bringing yourself back from that space.
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  #9  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 04:23 PM
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Perna Perna is offline
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Yes, things take time. You are probably noticing and challenging faster and better now and the negative feelings probably last for a shorter period of time, etc. Accept that you feel and act like a "mortified, angsty teenager". There is nothing wrong with feeling one way rather than another, it may not be pleasant but if you fall in a mud puddle, you are going to feel muddy? It's okay! The interesting part is to get to a place where you can shower as soon as possible and remember the whole experience so you maybe don't fall into mud puddles as often because you aren't paying attention or something? Figure out why something happens, what triggers it and accept your feelings and then act in a way you like, that helps you. Right now you are challenging your thoughts and I predict in the future you will probably be able to learn how to not fall into mud puddles so often?

I love David Reynolds books, InTheShadows; there was a time I found them very helpful.
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