The parts that like/love T

rainbow8 · Nov 05, 2013, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultramar

My personal opinion is that how she looks does not trigger you because it suggests some sort of attraction, but because you lack a strong sense of self (a self apart from others) when it comes to people you are very close too (especially T's); you have a hard time separating out where the loved one stops and where you begin.
That could be true, but I know I'm attracted to my T's looks also.
In this context I think you see her appearance as reflecting on you somehow; you really seem to take her appearance (and changes in it) as a personal affront. Like how some parents will want their children to look a certain way because their appearance reflects on them. I think her thinness (which you think is too much/unattractive) and other things reflect on you personally, whether positively or negatively.
I do that with my family but I'm not sure if I do it with T. Maybe.
I think if you really experienced her as an entirely separate person, her appearance would not affect you so much. I have never gotten the sense that you are attracted, in an erotic way, to her; of course you may have these feelings sometimes, they're very common in therapy, but somehow I don't see your concerns about her appearance having anything to do with this.
Well, I'm not so concerned about her appearance; I really AM attracted to her.
And I think all of this is about adult Rainbow. The expectations for children and teenagers are very different (and lower) than those for adults. I understand 'parts' (sort of) in some cases, but here it just sounds like you're deflecting feelings you do not like/are ashamed of onto 'other' parts, because they are difficult to own and accept.

I could be wrong about all of this; it's what I've noticed from my point of view.

There's the part who has the attraction, and the part who judges it with shame. We talked about that in my session.

Quote:

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

Ultramar, what you've said is part of what I don't like about IFS. I think "parts" are always reflections of the adult self, positive and negative, and giving them separate status maybe makes it easier to conceptualize them, but can also lead to their fragmentation in application and to become a defense. Perhaps it works well for clients with firm self boundaries--maybe even too firm--but if there is any ambivalence about the adult self, I think you could very well be right that such an approach just muddies the waters.

IFS says it differently. Different therapies are just that--different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultramar

I agree about the fragmentation issue. What concerns me too is that I have noticed people, at times, attributing aspects of themselves they do not like/are ashamed of to other/younger parts. So 'she' (i.e. the toddler) is needy (not 'me'), she (the teenager) is full of rage (not 'me'). I know this isn't always the case, though.
The part, especially a child, doesn't carry the shame or neediness. Another part does. The part just needs what she needs, wants what she wants. The other parts judge it.

I think if someone does not have a strong ego, a strong sense of self and/or has a tendency to not own feelings/behaviors, it's likely to be counterproductive.
IFS isn't for everyone. I agree.

Rainbow, my feeling is that you need to find you and be you -and not through others, not through T's (though this can be accomplished, in theory, *in* therapy); I think this is in part what Winnicott was referring to with the 'false self' and I think this is why your pattern persists. I don't know what modality would help with this; but I think when you can be both whole and separate at the same time, it will be a big victory. But if you don't get there, that's okay too. You seem to have a full life, you're emotionally stable, you have family, friends, support. At the end of the day, it's a matter of what you want beyond this, if anything. And if T (or T's in general) make you happy, then no harm in that.

Thanks! What I want is "not to be in love with T anymore, and not to have these feelings take over, and not to want to be in therapy again when I quit".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Just wanted to post quickly to Rain as you said you wouldn't be back here until Tuesday, maybe you'll see this before then maybe not.

I have a problem with your T and IFS - she started out doing IFS with you and it seemed to be working, then she discovered a new therapy modality that she switched to and suddenly you're not doing IFS anymore. Which would be fine if that was helping you, but I get the strong impression that you're kind of stuck way back in your therapy when T withdrew the handholding and stopped working with the very parts she'd brought into your awareness.

I wonder if you asked her would she be willing to finish off your therapy by going back to using the IFS model? It so obviously fits what you need. And it's heartbreaking to read about how hard you're working to meet T's suggestions (such as keeping off here and staying away from facebook). Again I get the impression that you're doing it for her, rather than because it's what you yourself want or feel to be in your best interests. (Besides, I like reading your posts, selfishly I'd like to see more of you on here, not less

.)

Don't mean to be critical about anything here, just wanting to let you know I'm still following your therapy journey, and sending you lots of support and hugs (((((((( Rain ))))))))))

Thank you. We did IFS today and I feel a little better, but it hasn't solved anything. I have to accept the part who is in love with T. As far as staying off of here, I don't like to admit it, but I felt much better being away. I got a lot done that I wouldn't have, and I didn't have that urge to check my thread because I knew I couldn't. I won't disappear from here forever, though. Thanks for the compliment. I hope that I'm helping others with my threads!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

You are supposed to unburden the parts from what ever trauma, emotion or need they are holding on to and once they are unburdened they will find a more constructive job within the system. Yeah right! My T is an IFS therapist and I honestly think he either afraid of me or just sucks at it. I laugh every time he asks if it is ok to speak to a part.

Like I said above, IFS isn't for everyone. I'm sorry you don't like it.

rainbow8 · Nov 05, 2013, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HealingTimes

If you are having a hard time with your Ts appearance, could it be that it has less to do with attraction and transference, and MORE to do with consistency?
You are used to seeing your T the same (apart from how they dress) every week. In your case, that includes the fact that she wears glasses.
Then, you turn up to a session and she now has contacts.
That would bother me, i hate change and need consistency. I never had consistency in my life before, so it's very important to me now.

I don't like changes, so consistency is an issue for me. But it's about her appearance too. I know it is because it's hard to look at her when her hair is a certain way, and when I like what she's wearing. I like her eyes, too. It's definitely about the way she looks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinnySoul

I think you focus too much on your T.

Maybe you should think about who the original recipient of those feelings is. Who is it that your 5-year-old self really loves? It's not T, it's someone from your life back then. Is this person alive? Can you fix your relationship with them? What did they do to you that led you to believe love is unacceptable and brings shame?
(I'm not expecting an answer btw, just a few ideas to discuss with your T.

)

Good questions! Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

I agree with Ultramar that part of what is going on is that you lack a strong sense of self and that you are enmeshed with your T. However, from what you've written over the years, it seems that you also do feel an attraction to your T. This feeling has persisted for you for quite some time, and you have reported having those "too good" feelings when you are around her and she looks attractive that day. It seems that when clients feel attracted to a same-sex T, people often chalk it up to transference ONLY and deny any possibility that there is also a same-sex attraction present. Of course, it's partly transference. And not every client who feels an attraction to a same-sex T is curious/bi/gay/lesbian. However, sexuality is fluid for many people, if not most people. Many people have felt some attraction to certain people of both sexes at some point in their lives. That's fairly common. Having those feelings doesn't have to be threatening and doesn't have to be explained away. It's a part of the spectrum of human sexuality. From the history you've described over the years Rainbow, it seems as though you have felt a similar type of infatuation for many men (and a few women) in the past. For instance, you've described feeling something similar for actresses and teachers, before you began having these feelings for your T. I also remember you saying once that you think it is okay for others to be bi or lesbian, but NOT for you. Of course, if you think it's not okay for you, that means you don't really think it's okay in general. It's like those parents who say "I'm fine with other people being gay, but not my child." That simply doesn't make logical sense. It's a homophobic line. So, to me, when you said it's not okay for you, that suggests that you have an internalized sense of biphobia. You recognize that it's possible that, in addition to being attracted to men, you may have some attraction to certain women- but you don't accept that part of yourself. One defense mechanism against those kinds of feelings is to say that you just want to "be like" those women; you want to imitate them. If you see them as representing qualities that you want to have, then it takes away the threat that you may actually want to be with them in a romantic way. Of course, both feelings can be present at the same time. One part of you might admire T, and another part of you might desire T. I think if you worked through your feelings- the feelings that think it would not be okay to be bi curious/ bisexual/ sexually fluid- then maybe some of the intensity around your attachment to your T would decrease. I don't know for sure, but I think that's a possibility. I think that may be going on, hand in hand, with your lack of a sense of Self. If you are denying or suppressing one part of yourself (even a small one), then how can your Self be complete?

Thank you for your astute comments, scorpio. Yes, you remember my issues very well. I do feel shame about having feelings for T relating to sexuality. I grew up when feelings for women weren't talked about and certainly weren't accepted. Men being homosexual was hidden also. T keeps telling me it's okay, and even if I have feelings for her, it's nothing to be ashamed of. We know I'm not going to act on any of those feelings, with her or anyone else. I still feel ashamed, though. I have to work on it some more. Yes, one part admires/idolizes T, and another part is attracted to her. I don't know if "desires" her is accurate, but maybe--it seems more in a romantic way, though. Not in a sexual way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blur

Rain, have you ever asked your T about integration of your child and teen parts with your Self? Maybe that approach would be more helpful than just accepting them. When I did inner healing I had a bunch of parts, carrying fragments of feelings I believe, integrated and it seemed like a good thing. I'm not sure why the trend is to accept the parts rather than integrate them as it used to be. Do you know why that approach is use now?

Eta: I'm not understanding the mention of child parts being reassigned appropriate role? I thought that was reserved for the protector parts only. As I understand it the child parts need to be rescued and they then grow up and are integrated into the Self. Is giving child parts appropriate roles also part of the shift in how IFS is done now?

I was going to ask her about parts being integrated but when she said I just have to accept that part, I lost my nerve or something. I'm not even sure what it would mean for the part to be integrated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blur

Ultramar, I don't think you are quite understanding IFS et al. These sorts of therapies are used frequently with people who have DID so obviously they don't have a strong Self to start with. That is the goal though. Check out this brief explanation of working with inner children/parts: Inner Child Healing & Integration | Healing Palette

Quote:

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

But in this case, DID isn't applicable. And often, in DID, the parts individually are quite strong and in competition. I think integration takes on a different meaning in those cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn Skies

Hi Rainbow,

These are some really strong feelings.

Do you know what it is about the attraction that makes you uncomfortable?

I think it's because I don't think it's "normal" though that makes me sound prejudiced. If I had a male T, I'd be more inclined to say "it's transference", or it's more normal. I don't want to be attracted to women, so it bothers me. Everyone else can do what they want, but it upsets ME to have feelings for women. I want it to be just "transference".

blur · 03:42 AM

Rain, here is what my book says about integration:

Integration can refer to 1) re-including your disowned personality parts into your inner family; 2) fusing two or more sub-selves into one during recovery; or 3) growing a common purpose and mutual respect, tolerance, loyalty, affection, and appreciation among all parts that comprise your personality. The latter process can also be called harmonizing.

Here is the section on rescuing:

Rescuing involves identifying exile parts stuck in the past, patiently gaining their trust, preparing a safe, nurturing inner place for them in the present, and helping them transfer safely out of their traumatic environment to join their inner-family teammates in the now. Rescuing paralyzed (often young) parts can help thaw frozen grief, heal old shame and seeing the world as it really is. A symptom of a successful rescue is having life-long fears, anxieties, and frustrations greatly recede.

Rain, I was referring to the first or second part of integration in my earlier post to you. I don't know if that would help you or not but it seemed helpful when a bunch of parts fused in recovery for me. That of course is not to be confused with blending where the parts take over the adult self which is not desirable. The third definition of integration where it is like harmonizing is what seems to be the focus now in IFS rather than the first definition of integration. I'm not sure what the child parts going off to play is called. I'm not sure if that is different from rescuing. I sort of thought the child parts grow up when rescued but may be mistaken about that aspect of it. Eta: reading further in my book the rescued parts just transition from being stuck in the past to a safe place in the present. They can even be integrated or given a new role eventually but it sounds like new roles are more commonly given to protector parts. this all is a process for some rather than a one-time event. It doesn't look like they grow up as I was thinking. What I've mostly experienced is what he calls re-doing although a bit differently in inner healing.

Here is how re-doing is explained:

Re-doing is a powerful parts-work technique. It involves planning and rehearsing, then vividly recalling a past inner and/or outer trauma, and revisiting it with your present Self and any other desired, healthy parts or people. The goal is to intervene safely in the remembered traumatic experience, and help involved wu selves experience a safer outcome.

IFS is complicated and has its own vocabulary. My book has a whole chapter just explaining the terms. That may be why some don't seem to get it and think somehow people aren't taking responsibility for their actions when I have never even heard of that happening. All I know is my experiences of this sort of therapy have been really helpful. I do hope you find the relief you are looking for rain.

rainbow8 · Nov 09, 2013, 11:37 PM

Thanks, blur. The only aspect of what you wrote that I know I've done often with my T is re-doing. I've gone over specific events and visualized a different, better outcome. That helped me a lot.

I'm trying to accept my feelings for my T but they are so powerful. I don't know if integration of my parts is relevant. I think I have to just keep talking about it with her. She told me she's just a "regular" person with strengths and weaknesses. I happen to be attracted to her physically and emotionally. It is what it is. Transference or real, it's there. I have to stop trying to fight it. I have to realize that T is right. I don't have to be ashamed of my feelings for her. We're not going to act on them, but use them to help me figure out how to have those feelings in RL with my H, if that's at all possible.

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