[LivingWithLaura]

Any comments would be appreciated!!

I have been treated for Bipolar Disorder in the past. My symptoms have gotten bad again, and after a few failed treatment attempts by my primary care physician, I went to a new psychiatrist (my old pdoc retired). This new psychiatrist was highly recommended by my PC doc as well as the psychologist I had been seeing on and off, so I was hopeful.

Let's just say my meeting with him was less than pleasant. I felt as though I was enduring an interrogation rather than an interview, and I was almost instantly defensive. I disclosed to the doc early on that I had taken my roommate's Abilify for a period of three weeks due to months of severe depression and a desperation to get relief. He said "I don't know what to make of you. I don't know if I can treat you. My first instinct is that I wouldn't touch you with a 10-foot pole because you have a history of non-compliance and playing with medication." He scolded me for the amount of alcohol I drank in college, for the way I tried to explain my symptoms (I was not clear enough and used "circuitous explanations" that "did not make sense"), for taking an antidepressant prescribed by my PC doc, and obviously for taking Abilify which was not prescribed to me (I understand being lectured about this issue).

I was extremely upset after the visit, however I agreed to stop taking any/all medication and see him again after a month. He said he would do therapy with me as well, but that he plays "hard ball" and I "might not like that."

I don't necessarily care about feeling "good" during my therapy sessions, my main priority is just to get better. At the same time, I want to work with someone who truly wants to work with me.

Thoughts??

[kaliope]

well with the high recommendations he came with he must be good and he definately doesnt sugarcoat anything. if your goal is getting better, it sounds like you have a shot here, if you can tolerate his demeanor. it sucks to feel bad leaving a session. but if you can take what he has to say as being in your best interest, it sounds like he will do what a softer t would do in twice the time. youre going to hear it from him, blunt and to the point, whether you are ready for it or not. if your feelings get hurt easy or you are sensitive, this wouldnt be the t for you. if you want brutal honesty, he is your guy. take care.

[Freewilled]

I'm confused...this person doesn't even know you yet, right? I don't think it sounds very promising - at least, it wouldn't be good for me. I especially don't like his comment about it "not making sense." Sounds very judgmental...do you have to go to this specific T?

[Canyon]

I think it really comes down to what you want from a T and what you think you can handle.

Personally, I don't connect well with the too accepting Ts that always say the "right" thing. I know that people are not really like that and it makes me question what they really think/ feel. I prefer that therapy be honest and a "no games" zone.

[stopdog]

If it was me, I would not continue to see anyone who tried to lecture me.

[Asiablue]

Is he confusing the term " playing hard-ball" with the term "a-ss-hole"???

He sounds like an arrogant douche.

[Raging Quiet]

Where is his empathy?

[Arha]

I would need more patience from a T than this person appears to have.
I would need more empathy too.

If that happened in my first session I would have been devastated, but my issues are possibly quite different to yours.

[LivingWithLaura]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Is he confusing the term " playing hard-ball" with the term "a-ss-hole"???

He sounds like an arrogant douche.

Ha! That made me laugh! Thank you.

I appreciate the feedback. I don't want to be a wuss who's all "wahhh, the doctor is meeeeaaan, I want my mommy!" but at the same time I want to be confident that a doc cares more about actually helping patients than he does about being right.

amiright?

Here's hoping it won't take too long for me to figure out which side of the fence this guy is on...

[Asiablue]

Don't get me wrong, i think someone who tells it as it is and doesn't sugar-coat things can be a really good thing at times but he also needs to be able to empathise and support you in a gentle way when needed. I hope he can do that.

I'm not sure i'd be giving him the chance after that meeting.

[Elektra_]

hi im in same boat as u. my T is a bi.tch too. at first i thought it would be good to have her but right now most of time i just want to tell her to **** off and leave the room. try talking about it if u feel like it really bothers u. good luck

[looking4polaris]

Wow! Tough call. I've also been treated for bipolar and vary the level of treatment that I care to receive for it. I've seen plenty of pdocs, mostly not great, but my issue with this guy would probably have been the statement about your circuitous explanations. Is that going to be a regular annoyance for him? For you?
I have a pdoc that also does therapy and I really like that. In fact, it has been essential to figuring out all my stuff and reducing my meds. That said, he's probably the least jerky pdoc I've seen and he endures many extremely circuitous explanations.
I'd probably be willing to give this pdoc a try if I felt strong enough not to take any **** from him, but I'd bring a 10 foot pole to my next session for sure!

[Lauliza]

I prefer the type of T who doesn't sugar coat things and who loses their patience just a little when I'm going in circles. However, I think a T can be and do all of these things with out being a jerk, and he sounds very arrogant and judgmental. It would be one thing if he made such remarks but gave you the opportunity to shoot back. Since you left the session feeling awful, I'd take that as a warning. He may be very good at what he does, but may not be a good match for you.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by LivingWithLaura

Any comments would be appreciated!!

I have been treated for Bipolar Disorder in the past. My symptoms have gotten bad again, and after a few failed treatment attempts by my primary care physician, I went to a new psychiatrist (my old pdoc retired). This new psychiatrist was highly recommended by my PC doc as well as the psychologist I had been seeing on and off, so I was hopeful.

Let's just say my meeting with him was less than pleasant. I felt as though I was enduring an interrogation rather than an interview, and I was almost instantly defensive. I disclosed to the doc early on that I had taken my roommate's Abilify for a period of three weeks due to months of severe depression and a desperation to get relief. He said "I don't know what to make of you. I don't know if I can treat you. My first instinct is that I wouldn't touch you with a 10-foot pole because you have a history of non-compliance and playing with medication." He scolded me for the amount of alcohol I drank in college, for the way I tried to explain my symptoms (I was not clear enough and used "circuitous explanations" that "did not make sense"), for taking an antidepressant prescribed by my PC doc, and obviously for taking Abilify which was not prescribed to me (I understand being lectured about this issue).

I was extremely upset after the visit, however I agreed to stop taking any/all medication and see him again after a month. He said he would do therapy with me as well, but that he plays "hard ball" and I "might not like that."

I don't necessarily care about feeling "good" during my therapy sessions, my main priority is just to get better. At the same time, I want to work with someone who truly wants to work with me.

Thoughts??

I, personally see, nothing wrong, with the manner of your new Pdoc's approach. He's telling you that you aren't being direct and clear with him. To many, the circuitous approach borders on manipulation.

Can't blame him, for being concerned about treating you. Considering your past experience(how far in the past?) with alcohol misuse, abuse of prescriptions by taking meds that don't belong to you, and your answers must have been dancing in circles, which would denote a lack of honesty, that would be feared from you. It's their license on the line, when they prescribe these meds.

Could be the type of therapy that you need, to release you from circuitous explanations and get you back to emotional health. If you are willing to deal with the 'tough' approach.

Circuitous - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

circuitous
1: having a circular or winding course <a circuitous route>

2: not being forthright or direct in language or action <a circuitous explanation>

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Is he confusing the term " playing hard-ball" with the term "a-ss-hole"???

He sounds like an arrogant douche.

Yes! Man oh man, can't he just get to know who you are first? I'd say I'd go running, to h*ll with high recommendation he got.

[stopdog]

I don't pay for people to abuse me, not listen to me or be arrogant jerks. I would not keep seeing this guy.

He sounds like a real character....

I just want to mention that my last T (and Pdoc) said many, if not most patients, experiment with medications at some point or another; the longer a person was in the MH system, the more likely they were to do this. After I admitted doing this myself, and telling him I was worried he was going to be angry with me, he told me that he realized that it was better to not take punitive actions against patients because he'd rather have us tell him about the experimentation than hiding it. It's safer that way. Doctors can lecture people all they want, but patients are still going to do what they want. If anything, it encourages people to be honest about it.

Anyway, I hope you don't let the fact that he was highly recommended deter you too much. I've gotten some bad referrals over the years. Good luck in deciding what to do.

[Freewilled]

Hmmm...I wonder if I am "circuitous"? How does one decide that? I dont always get straight to the point and really fumble over my words......I hesitate a lot with a lot of "well...um...eh" etc. But seriously. I mean, this is therapy. Why is he assuming you're doing all of this on purpose? And what of the 10 foot pole comment? I mean, really?? Fine then. I'd tell him not to bother getting his pole because I'm leaving!

Sorry - this struck a nerve with me. The idea that a person should put up with this type of therapy in the name of tough love just doesn't sit right with me. I wonder - does it work for some? Would a T pretty much saying' "you're lucky I'm considering treating you against my better judgement - plus you don't know how to make sense and don't cut to the chase enough" make one feel better or just do better in the end? I dunno. I'm not sure how this demeanor helps anyone

[ShaggyChic_1201]

With no desire to hijack, I am reminded of a really bad encounter I had with a Pdoc at an ED facility. I was already admitted and needed to see the doc for eval. His first words to me, "Well, what are you?" I was . He said, "You anorexic or a puker?" Mind you - this is an ED facility! Then he offers me some chocolates, which of course I refuse.

First night's dinner. I follow the crowd thru the cafeteria line and get handed my plate, which to my disordered eyes if full of a million calories and will cause me to gain hundreds of pounds instantaneously. So, I do what everyone else does their first day. I sit at the table, trying to eat my food and cry. Dr. A. Hole walks by and says, "Wow! That's a lot of food! You going to eat all that?"

They never did let me switch Pdocs. Something about me having to learn to defend myself.

Sorry - rant over. I'm just in a bad place tonight.

You are talking about a pdoc here, right? I have bipolar disorder, and both my T and my pdoc have, at times, had to play hardball with me. It has been necessary and even life saving.

I don't think that is particularly unusual when working with bipolar patients. We have a tendency to be non-compliant with meds. There are a great many who abuse alcohol and other meds. We can become a huge danger to ourselves and may require hospitalization. We can become completely irrational to the point of psychosis with paranoia, delusions, and hallucinations. Our meds can be highly dangerous if used incorrectly. We can honestly be hugely difficult patients.

Technically, nothing your pdoc said appears wrong, and his med plan seems kosher. He offered to do therapy with you. That probably isn't the best idea considering his demeanor. He at least is honest with you that you two are probably not the best match for therapy. I'd probably find a therapist with a more supportive style who isn't afraid to be firm with you when the situation warrants it.

I would probably give this pdoc a few more appointments before I decided whether he would be workable or not. He may have a different feel to him as you get to know each other. He apparently is well respected by other mental health professionals, so it might be worthwhile to not jump to judgment quite yet. See how he manages your meds once he starts prescribing, how comfortable you are with his level of expertise, if he is willing to listen to your concerns about meds and address any questions you have. You can always decide after a few appointments if this will work or not.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I don't pay for people to abuse me, not listen to me or be arrogant jerks. I would not keep seeing this guy.

What Stopdog said.

I would not continue to see this guy. I don't want someone that will sugar coat things or just say what I want to hear, but I expect to be treated with respect and listened to. I expect a T or p-doc (or any doc, really) to want to work in partnership with me on my health, be that mental or physical. If they can't view it as a partnership then they aren't the right choice for me. Anyone that lectures or comes across as condescending or just doesn't sit right with me is not someone I want to work with.

We all have different needs, though. For some folks, this kind of attitude might be helpful. I think you need to figure out what YOU want from a pdoc and if this one isn't it, then find one that is.

[blur]

I wouldn't go to him for therapy as it doesn't sound like he'd be a good fit, but if you like his approach with meds I'd give him a try on that.

[reesecups]

Dealing with something similar. He's an *****. But don't have much choice at the moment. I don't think someone playing hardball is usually a productive T. Just makes me feel stupid and defensive. JMHO.

[Victoria'smom]

There is no way I could be honest with someone that left me feeling like I was going to the principal to get in trouble. However that may have been the tone I was reading it in. Lectures make me angry and I tend to yell back spewing the truth at times things I didn't realize but in no way would l be able to tell him when things were bad. I think I need a safer place.

[Petra5ed]

I think it could be good or bad depending on your personality. Even though this guy is kind of blunt I would appreciate that at least he'll say what he really thinks, I prefer honesty to courtesy. My T is like that, to a degree. For me though, there is a fine line of how much blunt criticism I can take, it's not very much at all actually, I have a very fragile ego haha, I think my T could kind of read where that line was and stop before I was overly defensive.

Personally, I think he meant it for your good. I'm guessing he's trying to scare you because you really need to stop and trust him to find what meds will help. It could be a one time deal. I bet if you continue seeing him he will ask from time to time about taking other pills but won't lecture again.