[granite1]

none of this is good . stupid stupid stupid me .but I wanted to tell her so bed but it made no difference. I don't know what to think. I don't know why I did it .but I did. my T said it has been a long time sense we met . I just shrugged my shoulders. after a bit she said last session we were talking about my health issues .I explained how I did not like the doc that did the tests and there reaction to them. I told her that I thought the doctor was thinking I was lying to him. she said that was my stuff ,that all ask about chest pains .that was there job. she did agree that the techs might have been a bit unprofessional. she was quiet for a bit and that was when I said I also have managed to get on the mothers **** list. she was kind of flippant saying that doesn't seem hard to do. I instantly felt she had no interest in talking about the mother at all .and I was stupid bringing it up. I just kept my head down and said that I refused to go to a funeral that she wanted me to go to . s the mother said I was selfish and that she would never ask me to do anything for her again. my T again just said now that would be good . she just was not getting the point of it all and why I was so so upset about it .she said that we need to work on me not allowing myself to be so upset about the mother .to stop allowing her to be her little minion. she just was not getting it at all and she seemed to refuse to ask me why I didn't want to go to the stupid funeral. it would have helped a little if she had just asked why . I was havig such a hard time saying why . I had decided she didn't care to know so I was not going to the pain of telling her .at this point I was quite numb and feeling like she completely despised me and wanted nothing to do with what I was saying . I told her that I had called her again to tell her ware my sons next post was .and she answered oh so you decided to finely call me and yay happy new year .and was so mean to me . geez I wonder why I have not called you jerk. anyway I told my T that my son will be going to costa Rica and she dropped everything I said about the mother talked a bit about my sons new post and that I could be visiting him. it just seemed so much like she did not want to talk about the mother . at this point I am completely numb and disconnected to anything that was going on .I felt no real emotion at all .I don't think I had anything to loose any way. I don't really know how we got back to the mother probably something I said but I know I was going to start to cry and I said that I think the mother asked me to go to this funeral just to be evil.i had tears in my eyes I could feel it. my T said nothing thank god because if she did I probably would have completely broke down .I felt one again I was dealing with someone who just didn't care or just had no reaction at all. I don't know what I wanted but I think I wanted something. once I regained myself and sucked it up she said , normally I would doubt that but from what you have said about your mother I not so sure that isn't true. she finely seemed to understand something. after this I truly don't remember much of anything she said. I told her the story about how the persons funeral was for the daughter of her best friend . my therapist kind of gasped and said oh . I couldn't believe again she had sympathy for this person and not me I don't understand it .what is it with me, why do I see her having sympathy for the most horrible people and she cant for me . but whatever im not saying I need it at all at this point .she is allowed to think im just not worthy at all. anyway I just said I didn't care at all and I didn't want to go . and I continued my story .it was apparent it meant nothing to her . I told her that the son of this woman had molested me and sexually abused me for years and I knew he would be there and had no use for seeing him at all. at this point I looked at my T and she was sitting there with her elbow in the arm of her chair with her forehead in her hands rubbing her eyes. clearly to me uninterested. I didn't want to look at her anymore so I didn't. I told her about how when the mother found out what went on she blamed me and called me a slut and beat me and dragged me to church to confess my horribleness to a priest etc.. she wouldn't comment on any of this I wish I had never opened this can of worms at all. I don't think she could handle it or even believed me . I think she asked me how the mother found out . that was all it meant to her .to try and confront me .to question my story . why I don't get it . why cant people believe me . I don't remember much about what was said after that . she said something about the mother not being able to handle and process the information or something POOR FING MOM. how can she have sympathy for that monster . and not believe me , I am tired of trying to convince people of the truth .who knows maybe it isn't .maybe I just made it all up it was some sort of sick fantasy that everyone in the world is trying to get me to see. I don't know . maybe there was empathy and I just didn't see it but I am so stupid for even saying something .after 4 years with this woman I should have known ,I so wish I had not said anything .even though every voice in my head was warning against it .but stupid me said no it will be ok I have nothing to loose . sorry to bother with all this ill go away noy sorry

I'm sorry you are upset, but you seem to perhaps be misinterpreting a great deal of what went on in session. You also seem to be reading your T's mind generally in a negative way that seems more about your mother and/or your perceptions of yourself than what your T seemed to be demonstrating.

When I read your post I hear your T being very attuned to your mother's abuse and meanness and manipulation. I see her working to help you when she took your lead and talked about your son rather than your interpretation that she wasn't interested in your mother. Her reaction to the funeral being for the daughter of this woman was a very instinctual reaction people have when they hear of a person's child dying before them. It was perhaps sympathy for that scenario in general, but says nothing about her choosing this other family over you. I don't see anywhere that she doesn't believe you. Sit back for a bit and try to figure out how much is your personal projection of your feelings of not being believed, not being cared for, etc. rather than that being what your T was actually doing.

Sorry you are so upset. This is where you need to take a step back and figure out is this really about your T being horrible, or is this more about how you feel about your mother. Maybe it is somehow safer in your mind to feel anger for your T than to direct it at the true source of that anger.

[stopdog]

It is awful to deal with the therapist and feel so bad about it. However I do agree with Chris that from what was written, I did not get the idea the therapist was sympathetic to the mother or to the person who molested you, but rather to the idea of a person losing their child. The other things the therapist did or said did not sound to me like she was not believing you, although perhaps her way of responding/giving you space is not useful to you.

[WikidPissah]

((((granite))))

I am so sorry that you didn't feel any care or concern from her. I hate that, it hurts me to think of you sitting there spilling your story and not getting the feedback you needed.

I don't think that she doesn't believe you. They ALWAYS ask questions when you tell them something important. My T asked me crap like "what color was the rug" and stuff...I always thought he was trying to prove I was lying. BUT, I found out that that was to clarify the memory as then and not now or something like that. I forget...but there is a reason they ask questions, and it's not because they think you are lying, it's some kind of stupid T-thing. Ugh.



I believe you granite. I am so sorry that it didn't go well.

[DelusionsDaily]

Granite, I'm sorry you are struggling so much with T. I hope you can talk to her about this next session so she can clarify her responses to you. Can you tell her what you need when you talk about difficult thing? Like "I need X when I talk about the mother" or "I need Y when I talk about..." It just might help her help you. I know you have a hard time expressing yourself verbally in T but it could bridge the disconnect/disinterest you are feeling with her. I don't know...just an idea.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Freewilled]

I'm sorry, Granite I know just what you mean.....I experience a similar thing with my T. Sometimes it seems like he empathizes with the person who harmed me. I don't get it maybe I'm projecting my fears but I dunno....I'm sure that I am partially, but there is no mistaking that he empathizes with the other party and not me. I also say to myself the "poor mother" and in my case, "poor father" angry feelings (said sarcastically) why must he see their side of things when all my life that is ALL I have been forced to see from them and others. When does it get to be my turn??

I understand I'm considering telling my T just that on Thursday. I don't even care if it makes him mad or embarrassed or defensive. I just have to bring it up. I've never done that before though....have you?

[CantExplain]

I'm sorry you are hurting.

[granite1]

thanks everyone .I know she had to have said some supportive stuff and I am just only hearing the bad things .but I have read here how awesome T were when you have revealed such a horrible thing.

I have read about how much of a relief it was that you were finely able to tell and talk about it. tis is not how I felt at all . for many many years I have struggled to be able to talk about it with a T .I never thought I would . when I finely got to the point of saying something to this T it was like I was talking from so far away .it was like it was not me talking .it was like nothing mattered .it wasn't like because I felt safe but because how much worse could it get if she knew she couldn't be more disgusted with me then she already did. she didn't care so I didn't need to worry about making her feel bad . I don't really know what I expected other then to finely feel relief but that did not happen and I am really down now and feeling that I am hwo I am and will never be different.

[A Red Panda]

I'm sorry that you are feeling disappointed that you didn't feel relief.

It's ok that you didn't feel instant relief. We all react differently to things! That's allowed. Perhaps over time you will start to feel relieved... but it might take a lot of time and a lot more discussion about it.

You took the first step though, and I'm proud of you!

Granite, relief doesn't come instantly. It comes over time, a pretty long time in my case. Be patient with yourself. This is really difficult work you are doing.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by granite1

I don't remember much about what was said after that . she said something about the mother not being able to handle and process the information or something

Your T clearly believes you and yes, feels sorry that woman (not a "mother" except in literal terms) is so weak, twisted and sick (unlike you) that she can never have a real life, has to be twisted and sick to children (you) to make herself feel okay because no adult would allow it and here you are standing up to her and not going to her funeral so her days of being able to have any effect on the world at all are numbered.

It could be that in order for you not to become twisted and sick like that woman, you need to see the whole picture as it is now, and not just your or not your position. Some day you will be able to say to your mother straight out, "I am not going to that funeral because an ugly man who molested me and who you allowed to get away with it at great cost to me will be there and I do not wish to see him or be with you in that situation and remember that time."

[peaches100]

Hi Granite,

I'm sorry you are suffering so much right now. I can completely understand how hard it must have been for you to open up and tell your t what happened to you. I know too that you were hoping for a different kind of response from your t, something that would have felt comforting. I'm sorry that didn't happen for you.

It sounded to me like your t wanted to help you, but may not have been sure which way you wanted the discussion to go. You had brought up several things that might have been good to explore . .why you didn't want to go to the funeral. . .or how you felt about your mom's request that you attend and her threats . . .or about your son. . .or the abuse experience itself. If I had been your t, I may not have known either which particular thing you mentioned was the most important to you to discuss at the moment.

I think what would really help you is for you to be more specific with her about what you want to talk about, and what you need from her. For example, "I really need to talk about X today." Also, there are many times when, because of your bad experiences in the past with mom, you tend to misinterpret what your t thinks about you or how she feels. This is totally understandable and not your fault at all. You are reacting to messages that were pounded into you from childhood, and it's almost automatic to think that everybody else must feel the same way about you that your mom does. But it's very important that you begin to "check out" your perceptions with your t at the moment the misunderstanding happens.

For example, let's take this part of your therapy session:

I said I also have managed to get on the mothers **** list. she was kind of flippant saying that doesn't seem hard to do. I instantly felt she had no interest in talking about the mother at all .and I was stupid bringing it up.

In this piece of conversation, you tell your t that you managed to get on your mom's **** list. Then your t reacts to what you've said with "That doesn't seem hard to do!" What I get from this conversation is that your t is responding to your statement that you managed to get on your mom's **** list. In other words, your statement sounds like you are blaming yourself for being on her list - as though it is something that you did wrong. When she responded with "That doesn't seem hard to do," I hear her trying to counteract any self-blaming you might have been doing by pointing out that basically, it doesn't take much to get on your mom's *** list (in other words, mom gets easily upset over everything).

OK - so then this happens:

I just kept my head down and said that I refused to go to a funeral that she wanted me to go to . s the mother said I was selfish and that she would never ask me to do anything for her again. my T again just said now that would be good . she just was not getting the point of it all and why I was so so upset about it .

Again, I hear your t trying to validate you. She shows that she doesn't support what your mom is doing. But the problem is that you are wanting a different response from your t. According to the above paragraph, you really wanted to focus on how you felt and why you were upset about the situation. But instead your t was focusing on how she felt about what your mom said.

Here is where it would have helped for you to speak up - right when you noticed you were feeling disappointed by her response. If she is going down a path that you don't want to talk about, you could say, "T, I really need to talk about why this upsets me, not how you feel about my mom." I know this might be hard to do, but your t can't read your mind, so she needs some help knowing what you want to focus on. She won't be angry if you tell her that you need to focus elsewhere. She will probably be glad you can tell her what you need from her.

Here's another example from your post:

she just was not getting it at all and she seemed to refuse to ask me why I didn't want to go to the stupid funeral.

It didn't sound to me like she was refusing to ask. I think she didn't know that you wanted her to ask - or that this is what you wanted to focus on. Again, if you can say something like, "T, do you want to know why I don't want to go to the funeral?" or "T, I need to talk about why I don't want to go to that funeral," it would help her understand where you need to focus your discussion.

I know it's really hard to speak up like that. I have the same problem. I want my t to say or do a certain thing, but I don't tell her that. I feel that she should know what to say or what to do. I feel that if she really cares about me, she should know me well enough to already know what's important to me. But it's just not always true. It doesn't mean our t's don't care or are avoiding a certain topic. But if we bring up several things, they often don't know which one we want to discuss, so they pick out the one they think seems most important. But sometimes they get it wrong. If they do, we need to let them know.

If we need our t to say or do something, but we don't let them know -- and then they don't say or do what we need them to -- then we feel disappointed and hurt, and the session can do downhill from there because we don't feel understood. Then, if we are afraid to let our t know that what they said didn't help, or made us feel badly, then we leave the session feeling awful and not accomplishign what we wanted to do. But t will not even know this is how we feel because we did not communicate what we needed from her, or let her know when we felt disappointed and unheard.

So, please, please don't think I am criticizing you, Granite. I just see that you and I both have a tendency to misunderstand things that our t says and does, but we are too afraid to speak up and let them know how we feel, or to clarify things with them at the time the misunderstanding happens. Like you, I will feel bad about certain things that happened in therapy. But instead of letting my t know how I feel, I go away feeling horrible, and usually end up blaming myself.

Granite, I've read alot of your threads about your mom, and it makes me feel angry with her for the way she treated you. I understand why your t responded the way she did. Rather than not believing you, I think your t DOES believe you and that she has some strong feelings about what your mom has done to you, and she doesn't want you to blame yourseelf for it.

I know she didn't respond the way you needed her to, and I also know how bad it feels to get up the courage to say something and then not get the response we need. It really hurts! But I feel certain that your t cares about you very much! I think that with time, and more direct communication and clarification during your sessions, you will help your t understand much better what you need from her, and you will feel better about the outcome of your sessions.

With many warm feelings,
Peaches

[unaluna]

I thought the same thing as i was reading it. Peaches, how wow of you to put so much work into your response. Im so lazy i dont even know the word. But it was also granite's delicate set up that put it out there to be analyzed. Two really great pieces of writing. I am so moved.

[WikidPissah]

but really....
.would it have killed the T to say something like:

"wow, you just told me something very big. That may haunt you for a few days, and I want you to know that I heard you and it's not your fault"

I mean, seriously...we all know that they are trained for this stuff. After 4 years of saying barely anything you tell your t a big secret and they blow it off. That just sucks.

[Tydi469]

Wow, some brilliant responses here to your T session. I feel for you to and agree with previous posts but just want to add something. You said you've been seeing your T for 4 years (?) and this is the first time you brought this up. My perception is that perhaps she did know how effected you were by what you shared. And since it was such a horrible event in your life, she just let you lead while agreeing and offering support (as mentioned in detail above) without overwhelming you. I'll bet she'll bring it up in another session, it seems to me that she wanted to tread lightly on a subject that she felt could seriously affect you if dealt with all at once. Just my perception. I think I would have done the same thing on Ts part as bringing up such huge emotional past events all at once can be detrimental. Hope I made sense..

[Auntie2014]

Granite I am new here so I have not read a lot of your posts like peaches has. As I was reading your post I was thinking just about the same things that peachesposted.

I know that in my case I have built up a defense system to expect and/or perceive negative reactions from people when I talk about my abuse. In my case it is a "if we do not talk about it, IT DID NOT HAPPEN" attitude with family. It has been almost 15 years since I figured out that I NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT regardless of how others want to deal with "IT". Even with T telling me that she believed me I still had my guard up because I did not want to get hurt again.

I know someone said that T can not be a mind reader and you need to tell her what you need. Keep in mind that you you can not read T's mind either. Being open means you need to open up communications so it goes both ways. So you talk enough to T about things so she understands what you need AND you understand what and/or why she asks some questions or makes some statements.

[granite1]

peaches that you for your response .I do need to be able to look at things in a different manner and you truly did restate everything I said an such a more reasonable manner and I will read it over a few times to undaerstnd it .I get it I really do and it means a lot to me that you responded so carefully .

on the same level I had a huge gut reaction to wikis response also .would it have really killed her to at least say one supportive sentence to let me know she heard what I was saying recognized it was hart . a thank you for trusting me with this huge secrete. even just a thank you for sharing that .but when I looked at her to see her response I got her with her elbow on the arm of her chair with her forhead in her hand rubbing her eyes .like oh my god not this now .why me . it made me feel so stupid and hurt for even saying anything .I guess I may be reading into a lot but it would not have killed her .and I guess it doesn't have to be her job to do anything other then sit and listen to me complain .it just made things hurt more and I will take this into consideration in the future. and especially no mor talk about past stuff that I know .

Originally Posted by granite1

and especially no mor talk about past stuff that I know .

That would be a huge mistake. Unless you want to continue living in this much pain about the past, blaming yourself for everything, feeling like everyone is out to hurt you, etc., you are going to have to work through this old stuff. It is hard to do. No one wants to look at those painful experience. But it is affecting almost every aspect of your life.

You have really started making progress. You are talking more; you are sharing more; you are starting to make connections between your past and your present. If you stop now, you will stop right here and perhaps even regress.

Your T does listen to you. She does care. She has helped you make all the progress you have made. She has been right there with you. Try not to attempt to read her mind; it isn't working out well for you. You can do this Granite, but you have to stop yourself from running from it.

Granite, I'm not a huge fan of your T, as you know. However, the thing about her having her forehead in her hand, rubbing her eyes may not have been about her not wanting to hear what you have to say. It may be more about her needing to exercise self control over her emotions. I know my eyes were stinging a little, reading about your bravery in opening up to her finally and taking such huge risks (so happy for you, BTW, about that). Maybe she was rubbing her eyes because she was also a little emotional about what you were saying. Maybe? Just something to think about.

[and you KNOW how important I think this is and how important you are that I am driven out of lurkdom to post. ]

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by hankster

I thought the same thing as i was reading it. Peaches, how wow of you to put so much work into your response. Im so lazy i dont even know the word. But it was also granite's delicate set up that put it out there to be analyzed. Two really great pieces of writing. I am so moved.

Peaches pretty much said what i was going to say, Granite. Keep reading it!

Originally Posted by granite1

on the same level I had a huge gut reaction to wikis response also .would it have really killed her to at least say one supportive sentence to let me know she heard what I was saying recognized it was hart . a thank you for trusting me with this huge secrete. even just a thank you for sharing that .but when I looked at her to see her response I got her with her elbow on the arm of her chair with her forhead in her hand rubbing her eyes .like oh my god not this now .why me . it made me feel so stupid and hurt for even saying anything .I guess I may be reading into a lot but it would not have killed her .and I guess it doesn't have to be her job to do anything other then sit and listen to me complain .it just made things hurt more and I will take this into consideration in the future. and especially no mor talk about past stuff that I know .

i think maybe i am confused what you said to your T was revealing a huge secret and was hard for you? Your T knows everything is hard for you, just being there is a huge feat in of itself! Maybe she just didn't realize what you said was SO incredibly difficult, and you said there is a bunch of stuff you don't remember after you started talking…so maybe she was a little bit supportive?

Or maybe she had a headache or her eyes were bothering her. I do that same thing when I have a headache right between my eyes (those feel miserable). I wouldn't take someone sitting in that position as they aren't interested or not wanting to hear what you have to say. Try not to attribute negative connotations to rather benign movements. That is mind-reading and generally that isn't correct.

[rainbow8]

I think Peaches did an amazing job of analyzing what you posted about and what took place during your session. I think that you are doing amazing work, granite! When I first read your post, I felt that when your T put her head down and rubbed her eyes, that it was not anything about not believing you or being disgusted with you, or anything like that. I think it was her human reaction to what you were telling her about your past, and showed her empathy for you. That was my gut reaction to reading your post. I think your T is thrilled that you are finally opening up to her. You did not do anything wrong. There was a lot happening in your session, and a lot for your T and you to process. Yes, it would have been nice for her to acknowledge your sharing, but I don't think it means she doesn't realize it, or doesn't care, or any negative thoughts you may be thinking. Therapy is a slow process, but you are getting there.

[granite1]

thanks everybody . I am trying to keep ok about all this and it really does help to hear all you have to say . I did do something I have never thought I would and it was mixed up in a mess of stuff an very sloppy. I guess I did expect a bit much from her. it does feel somewhat different to have told her. I don't know what im going to do with it or what she will do with this information.

something supportive she said " so it was more then your mother asking you to go to this funeral. it was also bringing up all this stuff.

she had to have said other stuff I have not remembered

[peaches100]

Hi Granite,

Yes, I wish she had said something to acknowledge how hard it was for you to reveal what you did. Maybe when you go back to see her, you should say something like "T, last time I was here, I told you about "such and such." It took me 4 years to bring this up with you. I wish you had acknoweldged the courage it took me to say it." Then see what she says. I know it is scary to say that, and you don't know what kind of reply you will get, but it's also important for your t to know how her words and actions affect you.

Also, even though the "head in her hands" thing probably has some logical explanation and was not due to her not wanting to listen to you, if it had happened to me, I would be bothered by it too, and I would have to bring it up wtih my t. Otherwise, I would probably assume it was something negative about me. You might consider asking her about that. Would it feel too hard if you said "T, I also noticed when I told you about what happened to me, you had your head in your hands. Was I upsetting or boring you by bringing it up? This would give her a chance to tell you why she was doing it and could lead to you feeling a whole lot better about your relationship with her.

If you don't bring things like this up. and find out why she did what she did, then you might keep feeling bad about this. Then you might also feel too uncomfortable to bring up other important things in your sessions, because you don't feel like it went very well to disclose this event to her,

I agree with the others that you are doing fantastic work, Granite! I can remember when it was hard for you to tell your t anything at all!

Peaches

Granite, I was reading an article and thinking about the difficulties have mentioned with your therapist. This quote in particular struck me:

The transferential expectations victims may bring to the therapeutic process, which include failure to protect, abandonment, indifference and even assault, can be intensified by the therapist's silence and passivity (Rose, 1991). A neutral stance, appropriate for some types of clients, is not effective and can even be harmful for adult survivors. As Spiegel (1986b) explains, "traditional analytic reserve is often perceived by the patient as a lack of concern or even a sadistic pleasure in the patient's suffering" (p. 72). Attitudes of "distance" or "therapeutic neutrality" are likely to remind abuse victims of their dysfunctional family's patterns of interaction and therefore reinforce the patterns of denial. A similar recreation of the abusing family's attitudes can also result from instances where the therapist manages the intense countertransference reactions to these client's painful experiences, by distancing from or minimizing the significance of the abuse.
The therapist, therefore, must abandon traditional reserve and shift to a stance of "active engagement" (Olio, 1989). This stance offers explicit, repeated invitations for contact between the therapist and client, followed by observation and inquiry regarding the meaning to and impact on the client. Active engagement reflects the balance of sufficient initiation by the therapist, to create a responsive environment without reaching a level or intensity of intervention which becomes intrusive or controlling. If the therapist holds back, out of fear of intrusion, he or she may fail to provide the level of contact and emotional involvement necessary to encourage disclosure and access to the traumatic memories and accompanying affect.
Several sessions ago Jane spoke, with difficulty, about a memory of being abused by her brother. Her therapist, wanting to respect her pace, decided not to refer to it again, waiting for Jane to bring it up when she was ready. Jane broke the family "rules" by telling. Afterward she felt frightened and thought she had done something wrong. When her therapist failed to mention the memory, she began to think that she had been exaggerating and that the incident wasn't such a big deal.

I think that your T was not giving you the engagement that you needed in order to feel safe and heard and believed. I hope this is something you can address with her.