[MASIMO]

I can't believe it, but my T has agreed to have contact with me after he retires.
I had sent him an email last week about how distressed I was at loosing him to retirement.
He didn't respond. So I brought it up during our session yesterday, and he acted as if he didnt remember the email very well (huh) It was very clear and I specifically asked for a response. He kept dancing around it, saying he was busy last week. I said, "well we are here now, I want to talk about it." Nervous laugh from him. I was assertive with him.
He said, "remind me what you asked for" Oh come on. He knew exactly what I was asking for. I acused him of "dancing". I dont know if he was just uncomfortable, or if he wanted me to ask him again, in person. It was very ackward for both of us. He could of made it easier. Maybe that was the point, to make it difficult.

He told me that as soon as he takes down his shingle, things change as far as our relationship. He mentioned that people in his profession can be prosecuted for having relationships with patients and I could end up owning his house, he nervously laughed. I told him I was aware of the ethics. Then he said he didn't want to be responsible....for what I asked? For being a crummy friend that ignores you he said. I told him all I was looking for was an occassional email, phone call, or maybe a rare personal appearance. I joked that I wasn't going to stalk him and I didn't want to make a big deal out of this. I just didnt want to lose all contact with him, after 7 years of therapy together.

He seemed concerned about me telling any new T about us staying in contact and that they may tell me it wasn't healthy and to let it go. Or that our relationship could affect new any therapy. I told him I didni't care what they said and I wasn't concerned. But this was obviously his concerns about his reputation.

He was concerned about my husband seeing an email or hearing that I was still in contact with him and him coming after him, like what are you doing with my wife.... but he would have no way of knowing if I'm in contact with him.

He was concerned that he be respected personally and professionally as being in an ackward position at times if we pursued contact in the future. He mentioned we had to set boundaries. I agreed. He has a life partner of 12 years, I respect that and wouldn't ever jeapodize his relationship with her.

So we hashed all this out, and he agreed to keep in touch and said he really wanted to do so. I am so relieved. I don't know how this relationship will look. I said I dont want to put a label on it. I'm sure he will always think of me as his patient. He has a vested interest in me as we have not finished therapy....I expected him to be by my side as I go through a very difficult time in my life in the next few years. I know he cares about me and wants to know how I am doing as I go through this process. He plans to travel the world, and I would love to keep track of him and know that his is safe. I dont expect to hear from him often as time progresses, perhaps when he first retires I hope more often.

I sent him an email that I was very grateful, and I considered this a gift from him.
That I would protect his integrity personally and professionally by not telling another therapist about our contact, or family or friends. This is private.

I imagine we will be in contact for a few years and it will diminish and fade, but who knows.

I know I will need to work through my feelings for him in therapy with another T. I am greiving him now and will continue to do so even if we have some limited contact in the future. He plans to help me transition this summer to a new therapist...I think a woman this time he said! I said, B.S.....dont give me that! I prefer male therapists, and I doubt I would fall in love again, and who says I wouldn't fall in love with a female therapist from what I read on PC.

Anyway, I was so afraid of rejection and he said YES! My blow is somewhat softened for now.

[Asiablue]

Wow! I'm glad you could both discuss it openly. It's interesting to hear about what his concerns of it are. Good result!

[SoupDragon]

I'm glad for you, that you have this ongoing connection. It just makes me curious why it will have to be done in secret. Secret things are usually secret because they are shameful or wrong, so why can't it be done openly?

[AmysJourney]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I'm glad for you, that you have this ongoing connection. It just makes me curious why it will have to be done in secret. Secret things are usually secret because they are shameful or wrong, so why can't it be done openly?

I had a similar thought. Especially if you are planning on talking to your new T about this current T and your feelings etc. You would leave out a huge part by not telling the new T you're still in touch with the old one.
That might cause some problems you are not anticipating right now.

[MASIMO]

He didn't ask for me to keep it a secret. It's my choice to not bring it into any new therapy relationship. It's my choice to keep it from a husband I'm trying desparately to leave and who current berates me for goinig to therapy. And I just want to assure my T that I'm not talking all over town about him, out of common courtesy for hiim. People might get the wrong impression. My choice, and I am sure he would appreciate it.

[MASIMO]

Originally Posted by Amelia112

I had a similar thought. Especially if you are planning on talking to your new T about this current T and your feelings etc. You would leave out a huge part by not telling the new T you're still in touch with the old one.
That might cause some problems you are not anticipating right now.

I dont see any problems. My current therapist is not going to be providing therapy to me.
What I will be grieving is not seeing him for our current weekly sessions, and the years together. That will not change even though I might have some contact from him.

[Cherubbs]

I am very pleased for you, after so many years you must be very attached to him. It's nice that you will keep in touch.

So happy you were able to openly ask what you need, and fight for it! Yay!

[AmysJourney]

Originally Posted by MASIMO

I dont see any problems. My current therapist is not going to be providing therapy to me.
What I will be grieving is not seeing him for our current weekly sessions, and the years together. That will not change even though I might have some contact from him.

Yes, I understand. I am happy for you! I might have misunderstood when you used the word private that it may mean a secret. But I am glad you will stay in touch! :-)

[brillskep]

I am really glad for you that he said yes!
I would also add, he seems to have been very honest and trusting of you, explaining to you his own process and worries about doing this and making the decision together like this.
Hope you'll make the best of your post-therapy relationship and new therapy.

[tooski]

Congratulations! I'm so glad that it won't be an abrupt, final ending when your feelings for him are so strong. It shows he cares about you that he is willing to have some limited contact. His concerns are valid because both of you are married, and contact that is not strictly professional but personal could be misconstrued or blown out of proportion by some people.

Since you both have feelings for each other, I hope you can enjoy the limited contact for what it is. If it were me, I would take real comfort in knowing that he's OK and getting some glimpses into his life. Again, congrats!

[unaluna]

I would like to hear what a man thinks your t is thinking. Actually i would like to know exactly what your t is thinking, cuz i dont think you two are thinking the same thing. I think he was hearing, lets get it on, that you wont tell anyone. I dont think a lot of men - him in particular - are into friends WITHOUT benefits. I would be careful.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by hankster

I would like to hear what a man thinks your t is thinking. Actually i would like to know exactly what your t is thinking, cuz i dont think you two are thinking the same thing. I think he was hearing, lets get it on, that you wont tell anyone. I dont think a lot of men - him in particular - are into friends WITHOUT benefits. I would be careful.

Really ?

I so didn't read it that way!

[sailorboy]

I agree that there should be no relationship you are not comfortable telling your husband as well as your new therapist about. Your therapist seems rightly conflicted. I'm sorry your husband doesn't support your therapy.

[msxyz]

I am really happy for you.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by MASIMO

He told me that as soon as he takes down his shingle, things change as far as our relationship. He mentioned that people in his profession can be prosecuted for having relationships with patients and I could end up owning his house, he nervously laughed. I told him I was aware of the ethics. Then he said he didn't want to be responsible....for what I asked? For being a crummy friend that ignores you he said. [....]

He seemed concerned about me telling any new T about us staying in contact and that they may tell me it wasn't healthy and to let it go. Or that our relationship could affect new any therapy. I told him I didni't care what they said and I wasn't concerned. But this was obviously his concerns about his reputation.

He was concerned about my husband seeing an email or hearing that I was still in contact with him and him coming after him, like what are you doing with my wife.... but he would have no way of knowing if I'm in contact with him.

He was concerned that he be respected personally and professionally as being in an ackward position at times if we pursued contact in the future. He mentioned we had to set boundaries. I agreed. He has a life partner of 12 years, I respect that and wouldn't ever jeapodize his relationship with her.

So we hashed all this out, and he agreed to keep in touch and said he really wanted to do so. I am so relieved. I don't know how this relationship will look. I said I dont want to put a label on it. I'm sure he will always think of me as his patient. He has a vested interest in me as we have not finished therapy....I expected him to be by my side as I go through a very difficult time in my life in the next few years. I know he cares about me and wants to know how I am doing as I go through this process.
[....]

That I would protect his integrity personally and professionally by not telling another therapist about our contact, or family or friends. This is private.
[...]

I know I will need to work through my feelings for him in therapy with another T. [....]

I doubt I would fall in love again, [....]

I don't want to rain on your parade here, but imo this is full of red flags.

I say this as someone who has had/has contact with my former T for many years. Never in a million years would he have made any of the statements your T has. Nor would he have agreed to contact, especially such ambiguous contact full of such provocative concerns, immediately upon termination. Had we talked about it at all, he would have discouraged contact of any kind for 2 years, after which he would have accepted hearing from me by mail.

As it happened, I rightly grieved the termination (because of his forced retirement for health reasons) as a stage of therapy which has its own benefit, which allowed me to become fully independent of him. When I did contact him by mail several years later, it was to catch him up and tell him that my father had died, and I had moved overseas. While he has always responded warmly to my contact, he has never initiated contact. And there has never been any indication whatsoever that knowledge of our contact needed to be kept private. That is the definition of a secret, despite your choosing to frame it otherwise.

I don't know your entire story, but I do remember your posting about a rather bizarre boundary violation, I think it was very early in your therapy, about him entering your home and taking photographs. I have to assume there have been other boundary issues because that incident was so extreme.

I don't blame you at all; I understand how deep the pain of separation can be. But he is behaving very unethically and not in your best interest at all.

[AmysJourney]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I don't want to rain on your parade here, but imo this is full of red flags.

I say this as someone who has had/has contact with my former T for many years. Never in a million years would he have made any of the statements your T has. Nor would he have agreed to contact, especially such ambiguous contact full of such provocative concerns, immediately upon termination. Had we talked about it at all, he would have discouraged contact of any kind for 2 years, after which he would have accepted hearing from me by mail.

As it happened, I rightly grieved the termination (because of his forced retirement for health reasons) as a stage of therapy which has its own benefit, which allowed me to become fully independent of him. When I did contact him by mail several years later, it was to catch him up and tell him that my father had died, and I had moved overseas. While he has always responded warmly to my contact, he has never initiated contact. And there has never been any indication whatsoever that knowledge of our contact needed to be kept private. That is the definition of a secret, despite your choosing to frame it otherwise.

I don't know your entire story, but I do remember your posting about a rather bizarre boundary violation, I think it was very early in your therapy, about him entering your home and taking photographs. I have to assume there have been other boundary issues because that incident was so extreme.

I don't blame you at all; I understand how deep the pain of separation can be. But he is behaving very unethically and not in your best interest at all.

I am glad you posted this response.. I had been thinking about this this morning and I wanted to post something similar but I didn't in fear of coming over as judgmental again or of hurting the OP's feelings.
But I do agree with this observation, I agree that the original post is full of red flags.
Thanks for this.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I don't want to rain on your parade here, but imo this is full of red flags.

I say this as someone who has had/has contact with my former T for many years. Never in a million years would he have made any of the statements your T has. Nor would he have agreed to contact, especially such ambiguous contact full of such provocative concerns, immediately upon termination. Had we talked about it at all, he would have discouraged contact of any kind for 2 years, after which he would have accepted hearing from me by mail.

As it happened, I rightly grieved the termination (because of his forced retirement for health reasons) as a stage of therapy which has its own benefit, which allowed me to become fully independent of him. When I did contact him by mail several years later, it was to catch him up and tell him that my father had died, and I had moved overseas. While he has always responded warmly to my contact, he has never initiated contact. And there has never been any indication whatsoever that knowledge of our contact needed to be kept private. That is the definition of a secret, despite your choosing to frame it otherwise.

I don't know your entire story, but I do remember your posting about a rather bizarre boundary violation, I think it was very early in your therapy, about him entering your home and taking photographs. I have to assume there have been other boundary issues because that incident was so extreme.

I don't blame you at all; I understand how deep the pain of separation can be. But he is behaving very unethically and not in your best interest at all.

I am glad you said this. I agree, but wasn't sure how to word it.

Thats wonderful.
My t and i also plan to always be in each others lives.

[feralkittymom]

My intention is very much not to hurt MASIMO's feelings, and I sincerely apologize in advance if I have. I think she sees the ethical lines far more clearly than her T. But his perspective seems very telling to me, and not even in a close to the line sort of way. He's apparently giving up his license, so he will be beyond any sanctioning authority. It seems he has nothing to lose as long as no one finds out (why is he concerned about his reputation if he's doing nothing wrong?) and OP doesn't sue him.

[MASIMO]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

My intention is very much not to hurt MASIMO's feelings, and I sincerely apologize in advance if I have. I think she sees the ethical lines far more clearly than her T. But his perspective seems very telling to me, and not even in a close to the line sort of way. He's apparently giving up his license, so he will be beyond any sanctioning authority. It seems he has nothing to lose as long as no one finds out (why is he concerned about his reputation if he's doing nothing wrong?) and OP doesn't sue him.

My therapist did not ask me to keep anything a secret from anyone, nor mentioned anything about his reputation with the exception of making me aware that there are ethical considerations after therapy ends and we need to have boundaries in place. He will be giving up his license at some point in the next year. I just dont want to subject him to any misunderstandings. My therapist has been nothing but ethical with me and I dont expect anything different if we stay in contact. I will be grieving the termination of our therapy, and it will force me to become independent from him even if we have occasional communications in the future. It wont be like weekly therapy, an email every few months, I dont think it will tether me to him like I am now.

[feralkittymom]

Well, you're in the relationship, and we aren't. I'm looking at this strictly from your original post which gives a very different impression of what was said.

I hope it works out for you.

[scorpiosis37]

I see nothing wrong with having I occasional e-mail contact with your T after termination so I'm happy for you that your T is able to provide that. In fact, when I asked my T what she would offer when we terminate (which is still a ways away), she said that she would be happy to exchange occasional emails and would actually enjoy getting updates on how I'm doing.

What I find a bit troubling though is the idea that this would be kept secret. There is no reason whatsoever to hide this information on either your end or his. What I can't tell from your posts is whether the idea of keeping this private is coming from you or from him. If you don't want to share this information with your husband because you are divorcing him, that's fine. However, it would seem problematic to "hide" this information from your next T. If your current T is going to help you transition to a new T, he has an obligation to tell that new T about your termination plan with him. Since infrequent, platonic email updates are not unethical, there is nothing to hide. You also should not hide anything from your new T in general, so that you can get the best therapy possible and develop an authentic relationship with that new T.

When I move, I will keep in contact with my T and I will be open about that with the people in my RL and with any future T I may see, if I choose to continue therapy. There is no reason whatsoever that staying in email contact with a T would hamper any romantic relationship I may have or she may have. That is why it doesn't make sense to me that you are concerned his contact with you could possibly jeopardize his relationship with his life partner. My T continues email contact with some of her previous clients, and her own T/supervisor is aware of and supports this. The people in her RL are aware of this (though not any details about the client 'a therapy). This is fairly common practice, at least in my area. It would only raise red flags if it WAS kept private because that would suggest there WAS something to hide. That would give the impression it was romantic/sexual. If it's platonic and infrequent, the 2 year rule does not apply. It's not a "relationship"-- it's just some email updates.