[stopdog]

If the therapist tells a client - "x is because of Y" and stops like that is some huge revelation - do you find that useful? What if the client already knows it is because of Y? Without more - without the "and that matters because" it seems pointless. Don't most clients know why? It is the "so what" that I think would be the more useful info.
OR if they say that your mother (or whoever) was wrong about something - why on earth would a therapist think a person would believe them over the mother?
If I am going to choose who I think would be right about something - it is probably going to be the one who knows me and not some stranger I pay to sit there once a week to listen to me whinge on.
This is probably why I think the blank slate works better for me - I don't think therapists have ever said anything useful to me.

I've never had a therapist do that I guess. There is always discussion and discovery and application to go with it. My T's have always known that if they are having to show me something about what I am thinking, there is a reason why and we need to explore it and work through it.

[worthit]

I think most people are not aware of why they do things,they just keep living day to day. T saying it causes us to stop and think about why we do what we do. It may seem obvious and a" duh" moment, but we're there to analyze or actions and reasons, and hopefully change them.

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[feralkittymom]

I guess I always felt it was more my job to explore why something mattered. If I was really stuck, my T would guide me, but he didn't usually offer interpretations until I had already made a series of connections. But all of this only happened through extensive dialogue; not sure how it could happen if I didn't engage with him in conversation.

[HazelGirl]

I think also the therapist isn't someone who is a "stranger" to you and so they would ideally know enough to be able to make some of those calls.

[rainbow8]

If Ts haven't said anything useful to you, why do you go? You could just talk to a friend instead.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

If Ts haven't said anything useful to you, why do you go? You could just talk to a friend instead.

Actually no. I say things to the therapist that I would not say to a friend.
But that is not even the real point of my question. I have my reasons for going.

[PeeJay]

Originally Posted by stopdog

If the therapist tells a client - "x is because of Y" and stops like that is some huge revelation - do you find that useful? What if the client already knows it is because of Y? Without more - without the "and that matters because" it seems pointless. Don't most clients know why? It is the "so what" that I think would be the more useful info.
OR if they say that your mother (or whoever) was wrong about something - why on earth would a therapist think a person would believe them over the mother?
If I am going to choose who I think would be right about something - it is probably going to be the one who knows me and not some stranger I pay to sit there once a week to listen to me whinge on.
This is probably why I think the blank slate works better for me - I don't think therapists have ever said anything useful to me.

My therapist has offered myriad useful and not useful insights.

In the example, I think it depends on what the mother is right or wrong about. Right? The answer is relative.

And it depends on the topic and the mother's expertise on that topic relative to the therapist's expertise on that topic.

I mean, if the mother is telling her five year old, "You are a horrible child and you deserved the abuse," then the therapist is right to assert that the mother was wrong.

It wasn't a T who said this to me, it was a former boss, but he said about my family once, "You didn't do anything wrong."

It blew cracks in some huge guilt I had been carrying around.

I'd actually believe it less if it came from a therapist, though, because I think that therapists lie and say platitudes too often.

But generally, if parents are blaming children for being children, I think that a therapist in his or her experience of seeing this over and over, CAN assert that someone may have been wrong in a situation, as it is being presented.

One more example, parents get things wrong. Someone close to me had his parents say to him, "You are not good at math," and other not useful untrue observations. I could see a math professor, years later, saying, "Your mother was wrong about that."

And of course it is just an opinion that you can take or leave.

What would bother me is if the therapist then expected the client to be grateful and prostrate at her feet for the insight. haha

I would not like it if my T told me why I do things, or why I react in certain ways, or whatever. I get that at home, I definitely don't need it from T. He can offer possible interpretations and point at likely correspondences, but that's a collaborative process.

My T knows me much better than my mother has ever done, though. (Or anybody else.) T is a stranger to me, but I am not a stranger to him.

[critterlady]

For me, the "x is because of y" aspect helps because if x is something I don't like, then understanding why it happens may help me keep it from happening. For example, let's say x is that I don't let people help me. If I know that's because being vulnerable was dangerous when I was a child, I can recognize that it's not the case now, as an adult. So, maybe I can let people help me once in a awhile and it won't hurt me.

As for believing my therapist over my mother or some other party, generally, I find that my therapist is pretty unbiased. When he tells me that he thinks something my mother said was wrong, he doesn't have ax to grind - he's just telling me how he sees it. He's told me when he doesn't think she was wrong as well, so I feel fairly confident that he's telling me the truth as he sees it. My mother's perception and my perception are thoroughly vested in our own truths, not an objective truth. T is pretty objective.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I guess I always felt it was more my job to explore why something mattered. If I was really stuck, my T would guide me, but he didn't usually offer interpretations until I had already made a series of connections. But all of this only happened through extensive dialogue; not sure how it could happen if I didn't engage with him in conversation.

I assume if the therapist says something - they have a reason for it and I should not have to/I am not going to guess at what that reason is.

If I say - I have observed X and I wonder if it is Yor Z - then that is different than the therapist making some obvious statement and expecting me to get why they said it.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by stopdog

If the therapist tells a client - "x is because of Y" and stops like that is some huge revelation - do you find that useful? What if the client already knows it is because of Y? Without more - without the "and that matters because" it seems pointless. Don't most clients know why? It is the "so what" that I think would be the more useful info.
OR if they say that your mother (or whoever) was wrong about something - why on earth would a therapist think a person would believe them over the mother?
If I am going to choose who I think would be right about something - it is probably going to be the one who knows me and not some stranger I pay to sit there once a week to listen to me whinge on.
This is probably why I think the blank slate works better for me - I don't think therapists have ever said anything useful to me.

when my treatment provider is unclear like this I throw them a question....

T...X (my fear of closed in places) is because of Y (being abused in a mine shaft)
me... yea I know so far knowing that hasnt helped me. So how does just knowing that helps?

t. because sometimes knowing where a problem is coming from it take the guess work out of it, you know why now so figuring out what you need to do about thisis a bit easier.. what do you want to do about this, how can I help you move forwards in this problem.

Me...well the abuse happened when I was a child and the abusers went to prison for it, I feel like this fear is holding me prisoner.

T. so lets break out of your prison. what would you like to do about this fear? lets break this fear down, what are the elements of this fear?

therapy isnt where you sit down with a treatment provider and the treatment provider supplies all the answers. but they can be clear about helping you .....if...you ....are clear what you need from them. they are not mind readers so they dont know they are not being clear and sometimes their lack of clarity is a therapy tactic to get you to think for yourself, engage in the conversation, ask questions and come up with solutions. the only way they are going to be more clear is if you tell them what they say hasnt been helpful to yuo at that moment. that gives them a chance to clarify their comments and keep the conversation moving in the right direction...for the best of you.

suggestion since only your treatment provider can definitively tell you what they mean by leaving you hanging, my suggestion would be to contact them and let them know making broad statements like X is because of Y then leaving you to ponder isnt helpful to you. for some people it is and others it isnt so they dont know with out you telling them it isnt for you.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I assume if the therapist says something - they have a reason for it and I should not have to/I am not going to guess at what that reason is.

But their reason only matters to the extent that it resonates for you. Presumably, their purpose for saying whatever is that they think it's psychologically true based on info you've told them. Any further meaning only comes from collaboration.

ETA: If what they're saying is truly so obvious, it doesn't sound to me like an interpretation, but rather a reflection. If you don't want them to use that technique, tell them.

[stopdog]

I believe there is no presumption - which is like a guess - the therapist needs to explain why they said it and then perhaps that leads to agreement or discussion. But whether it is psychologically true or not in a vacuum is not useful to me.
But that is why I tell the woman not to talk - her talk is useless and pointless to me without further explanation as to why she would bother saying it.

[willowbrook]

The only time my Pdoc has made a definitive statement is when I was telling him about my past childhood abuse and he said straight out 'You were assaulted'. Apart from that he tends to word things in a way that he's giving me insights to choose from, but not actually telling me X means Y. Then I go away and think over what he's said and draw my own conclusions. Sometimes I go back next session and say I agree with what he said, sometimes I go back and say 'No, I don't think it's like that for me', and I explain why and that helps spark another discussion. I don't think I'd get on so well in therapy with him if he was sitting there telling me how I'm supposed to feel, for me it's his job to help me work that stuff out for myself.

Originally Posted by stopdog

If the therapist tells a client - "x is because of Y" and stops like that is some huge revelation - do you find that useful?

Sometimes. Depends on what it is.

Originally Posted by stopdog

What if the client already knows it is because of Y?

Then I roll my eyes at him and say, "duh."

Originally Posted by stopdog

Without more - without the "and that matters because" it seems pointless. Don't most clients know why? It is the "so what" that I think would be the more useful info.

Sometimes I don't know why, and the statement he makes is helpful. Sometimes, I DO know and it IS pointless for him to point it out. At that point, I just say, "and how does that help me?" He either tells me how it helps, or tells me that it is just for my information.

Originally Posted by stopdog

OR if they say that your mother (or whoever) was wrong about something - why on earth would a therapist think a person would believe them over the mother?
If I am going to choose who I think would be right about something - it is probably going to be the one who knows me and not some stranger I pay to sit there once a week to listen to me whinge on.
This is probably why I think the blank slate works better for me - I don't think therapists have ever said anything useful to me.

As I have mentioned, my mother was quite mentally ill. She often told (and tells) me things that are not true. As a child, I didn't question those things and they became part of my internal self talk -- everything is my fault; I am defective; I am a horrible person; if I were just prettier/smarter/better then people would treat me better, etc. I try to accept my therapist's view of some of these things because (1) he is more objective, (2) he is not mentally ill, (3) he has no vested interest in lying to me, (4) I would really like to think I am not defective, horrible, ugly, etc.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I believe there is no presumption - which is like a guess - the therapist needs to explain why they said it and then perhaps that leads to agreement or discussion. But whether it is psychologically true or not in a vacuum is not useful to me.
But that is why I tell the woman not to talk - her talk is useless and pointless to me without further explanation as to why she would bother saying it.

Why can't you react to the statement without knowing their reason for saying it? Most T work with a client's reactions to a statement because within those reactions lie thoughts and feelings that are useful for understanding. But it sounds like you guard your response until you feel their full meaning is already revealed. But I don't know of any T that will work that way except on a very limited basis.

I doubt that whatever they're saying is in a vacuum because that would have no usefulness.

[stopdog]

The first one I see does this sort of thing a lot - I tell her just not to talk because I find it so useless. But she stays back. I can tell her things because she does not care. What I tell her has no effect upon her - which, for me, is a good thing.

The second one will explain which, for me, is much more conducive for a conversation.

[feralkittymom]

So if the second one explains, I don't understand the question of your original post? I doubt that the first one will ever change her way of engaging.

[brillskep]

I don't find it useful for a therapist to say "X is because of Y". My therapist never says that. Every client doesn't necessarily already know why, but I think the therapist knows even less than the client. I think a therapist can formulate hypotheses and check them out with a client to see if those hypotheses ring true, but that's that. In my opinion, the reason why matters because treatment plan can be different depending on the cause of symptoms - then again, that depends on school of thought.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

So if the second one explains, I don't understand the question of your original post? I doubt that the first one will ever change her way of engaging.

I wondered if others found it useful.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I have my reasons for going.

What are they?

[WikidPissah]

I generally know that X is because of Y, and it has always irritated me when a therapist has pointed that out (kind of like the "duh" response MKAC noted).

I've never understood the reasoning, and I have never found it helpful.

However, it was very helpful to learn my mother was wrong, that was actually freeing for me.

[nottrustin]

I wouldn't find it helpful if they just told me that x is because of why without explanation. I need to have to know why about everything. If my t weren't to tell me (which she always does I wouldn't have a problem asking why. Usually she says do you think it is possible that x happened because of why? I usually will answer but then she will explain why she explains her thought process.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

I think for me, asking why someone-- T or not-- said any given thing, is a conversation and interaction killer. For me, it's more important to consider the content of what the person is saying-- does it fit, if not, why not. That's what moves me and the conversation forward. When I have asked someone why they have said what they did, it has been more out of negativity or hostility that I said it, and their answers have rarely been satisfying.