Intimacy Issues

You can all probably read some of my other posts to realize that I am seeing a therapist for issues relating to coping with the loss of sensation in my genitals, and that this has opened up into dealing with intimacy issues with my wife, as well as long standing sexual orientation complications.

The therapist's plan from the beginning what to focus on the intimacy issues. You know it does make sense...if I can find a way to be intimate with my wife, I will be able to deal my numbness, as well as remove any of my concerns over my homosexuality. The therapist had my wife come to the sessions and was had three of them as a couple. Then my wife, just stopped going and said that she had told he therapist all she needed to know and that all I have to do is "be a man". I know that a relationship is a two way street and intimacy requires both partners to work at it.
But in the end, my wife has taken all of the "couple"-related aspects and essentially left it all on my shoulders. If I can "be a man", and I romance her, then maybe she will be able to have intimate relations with me. Right when I'm trying to deal with my sexuality and intimacy, she is telling me that I'm not a man and that I have to fix myself if there is a chance of having sex with her again.

Ouch. I'm sorry. It's so hard when you're trying to work on something as a team and then it's all left up to you.

This sounds like gay conversion therapy, though. I thought that has been dis-proven to not work?

I hope you can get to a point where you, and those with whom you are close, love you for who you are -- every part of you, including your sexuality.

I don't think this sounds like gay conversion therapy because it's his wife saying it, not the T.

I am sorry your wife is unable to be there for you in the way she wants you to be there for her. I have heard that women love it when you do chores...so maybe try out things like that. Or ask her what she means by you being a man? Maybe she has something specific in mind.

I just wanted to clarify the therapist is not trying to do "gay conversion therapy". The reality is that the therapist is trying to move "us" towards being intimate again. The therapist was even trying to find ways to bring aspects of my sexuality into our relationship. I know that some people may find it disturbing, but the therapist brought forward the idea of enjoying "alternative" sexual activities. As normal penetrative intercourse is not working right, she proposed that my wife roleplay as a man allowing me to perform "gay oral sex" and receive **** sex using toys. As I already know I like this, I would be able to still have satisfying sex, safely with my loving spouse. I would be able to satisfy my wife through oral or manual means.

Unforturnately, my wife has halted all forward movement in this area. She seems to only want normal heterosexual activities, and only of they are initiated by me.

We actually had this discussion a couple of weeks ago, and she really didn't have a clear answer. I actually think that it is like chasing a sunset, her expectation of me "being a man" will always be just over the horizon.

I have actually done a lot of research on "being romantic". There are lots of opinions, ideas and stories. It's funny because I do I lot of them already. I already vacuum, fold laundry, I cook supper 1/2 of the week. I give her massages before going to bed. I leave her notes telling her why I love her. I take her to her favourite restaurant, to the spa, to the theatre. I surprise her with flowers and gifts for no reason other than because she is my lovely wife.

I love her dearly, but I don't know how to love her more or how to be more "romantic".

Well, she sounds very ungrateful!

I try not to look at it that way. I've be like that our whole marriage. I pull my weight. Some other relationships may not be as balanced so others may find that doing these kind of actions to be special and therefore infer a romantic intent.

My wife has always been the dominant personality. I was drawn to her because she was confident, independent, decisive...after almost two decades of marriage she likely now wants a different approach to romance. She wants me to be in control...ie. be a man. Sadly, after all these years I really do not know how.

What disappoints me more is that it seems to be all for me to fix.

You make it sound easy!

Marry me!





tapatalk post.

You feel sure, after all of this time and effort, that it is still up to you, that it is still your fault, that if only you were somehow even better that things would be fine.

Maybe there is another way to look at it. Maybe she simply cannot or will not be satisfied. Maybe it is time to acknowledge that you are doing really well and it is her problem if she cannot respond to that.

Maybe chasing the sunset is a good analogy. Maybe it is up to you: do you want to chase the sunset indefinitely? Maybe there comes a time to recognize that you cannot catch the sunset. If that time comes, it will be up to you to decide: Do you want to keep chasing the uncatchable? Or do you want to accept that it is uncatchable and change in some way so as to stop the endless and apparently hopeless chase?

You mentioned being a man. What if part of being a man is not putting up with chasing the sunset? Perhaps part of being a man is recognizing reality and putting an end to the chase.

I guess what scares me a bit is if I accept that this is a hopeless chase, I would lose her completely, and I would slide back into being gay.

How (if at all) would your behavior toward her change if you were to accept that it is a hopeless chase?

I think this sentence says so much about your very own conflict, perhaps more than you notice.
It scares you to lose your wife and that might make you slide back into being gay?
I wonder how certain you are of your sexuality in general. Perhaps that is the actual question. Being gay is not something you "slide back into" it is something that you either are or are not. If you are bisexual then that's what you are, even if you would chose at some point to enter a homosexual relationship.
So what are you more afraid of? Being gay and admitting it, or losing your wife? Or losing your wife because you feel there is more to what your therapist said about your sexuality and your marriage feels somehow "off"?
There are so many different conflicts here and I think it is very important that you try to figure out what the dominant conflict is.
This all must be so confusing, especially because you are trying so very hard to please your wife and be a good husband.
You said in your other thread that you love your wife completely and would never jeopardize your relationship with her.
If that is the dominant thought, then you can go from here and explore this. It is not unusual for women to be apprehensive about using certain sex toys or engage in role play - especially if it involves her pretending to be a man.
Imagine how confusing and hurtful it can make your wife feel to be asked something like this. It might make her feel less and not good enough as the woman that she is. She is a woman, she wants to be a woman and she wants you to love her as a woman. I can understand that your wife wants nothing to do with gay role play. It might mess with her own identity... And perhaps she is also afraid to lose you to a man?

And I can also understand that that is difficult for you. But this really seems to be much more about your own sexuality than anything else.
I hope you can find the help you need with all this and I certainly feel with you...

I am not completely sure. Knowing that there is hope, you know, a light at the end of the tunnel is a motivation. Accepting that I cannot please her and give her what she wants is not a positive thing for me. I would get to a point that doing what I do right now out of love, devotion and hope, would end up being done out of duty.

I do love her and really do want to be intimate with her, and I know it's no all her and not all me.

I see what you mean, and maybe it's semantics. I am sure of my sexuality...I am bisexual. I have lived at various points on the sexuality scale...from purely homosexual at the very beginning...to heterosexual in my marriage...to somewhere in the middle with strong gay desires and fantasies right now. As a man, when my desires and urges take over, I feel like I am sliding into it. I am scared that my gay urges and desires will overwhelm my heart, soul and mind, and ruin my marriage.

Losing my wife. I have freely admitted to myself, my wife, my therapist...even you, that I am bisexual and have had homosexual experiences, and still have desires and urges for them.

I have been loving, faithful and dedicated for 18 years. It's hard not to be scared to lose that.

You see, even considering this statement forces me to question myself...my sexuality...my marriage...my life. Asking myself the questions just open more questions, which I don't have the answer to.

I understand what this could do to her and her identity. I have been honest with her for our whole relationship...and as my therapist says, "If I can't be open and honest with my wife, and explore who I am SAFELY with her, then who can I?"

It's funny, because I always felt confident in my sexuality. I never had to guess, because I know from experience who I am and what I like.

When I look back now, the only thing I actually regret was asking for help in the first place. It was actually easier to deal with the loss of sensation in my genitals than dealing with all the emotions and questions that have come out of all the talk and therapy.

Well as I see it there are at least two basic to consider. One is what we were just talking about.

This still sounds of self-blame because it is based on the assumption that there is something that she wants and will please her, if only you could find it, if only you could catch the sunset by yourself.

What if you might need to accept that she is presenting you with an impossible dilemma: catching the sunset by yourself. How much (if at all) would it make you feel "less than" to accept that you cannot do by yourself what it isn't possible to do by yourself?

How much of what you do now could be done out of love and devotion (rather than duty) even if you concluded that there was no hope of more intimacy?

Exactly. How willing is she to search together with you? For example, how willing would you be to go together with her to a couples therapist? How willing would she be?

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The issues that Amy raises are really important and more fundamental than trying to figure out what might please your wife. I hear a sense of desperation when you say that you will lose her completely and slide back into being gay.

Why slide back? What feels so wrong about being gay to you?

Like Amy said:

I suppose it is really important to know oneself and to accept oneself. How much can you do that now?

If you are unsure of yourself, of what you truly are, then that lack of self-assurance and self-knowledge and self-acceptance might express itself as a tentativeness in your relationship with your wife.

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How much can your T help you think these things through? With her, though, I think the emphasis should not be on specific techniques. I think that time would be better spent, first, on the issue of what you truly are (if you are unsure).

I see I cross-posted with you. I have to get going, but I do want to respond briefly right away to one thing you said:

This I would question. A spouse is not a therapist. I think a more helpful approach would be to explore these questions with your therapist.

You have a really good point. I will have to think on that a bit.

Well, the original plan by the therapist was as a couple. After two sessions my wife said she wasn't going back. She said that she had said all that needed saying..."I have to be a man" and "I have to figure out how to romance her". Since then it's been just me at the therapist. It's sad because I have talked with my wife about this and she can't really tell me what it is that she wants when see says these things

Because I love her and I made a commitment to a heterosexual marriage 18 years ago. What does it say about me to consider leaving my wife for a homosexual relationship...for gay sex?!

I see your point.

That is what I am hoping for.

It sounds like you and your wife are seeing a couples counselor? Would it help to see someone on your own to help you figure out what YOU need? Why does it have to be all or nothing with your wife--she may end up with nothing for her lack of understanding.

Although it is amazingly selfless that you are setting aside the core of who you are for someone else, I have to wonder is it worth it? Would she do the same for you? Right now it sounds like she is unwilling to meet you halfway.

It makes me sad to read "sliding back into being gay" as if it is a bad habit or something.
No!!! I want to yell at my screen and tell you that you are perfectly a man as a bi or gay man. You are not less than a man. You are a man just the same.

Her shaming of your needs isn't very caring. Is it really so bad if this relationship ended?

We did start as a couple, but she stopped after a few sessions. Said that she had said all she needed to. That's when she told me that all I had to do is be a man! Since then, all the sessions have been me only.

I can't say I agree 100% about setting aside the core of me, it seems you are implying that being bi or gay is what defines me. It is part of who I am, but even part of that bi-ness is being able to love my wife, both emotionally and sexually. There are a lot of straight couples out there who in their 40s and 50s don't have sex that often. I'm not setting aside that part, I've hoped to make it more part of our relationship considering all that has gone on.

I'm not sure if she will meet me anywhere between where we are now, sadly.

Ending the relationship is always an option, but I always come back in my heart and mind that as straight or bi or gay I love her, I chose her, and I am willing to work at the relationship even if she isn't. My gay desires and fantasies are just one part of the complex issues we are dealing with. And it's not like I have been having a gay affair on the side and know I can just leave and go to someone else. Right now, I just want sex from men, and that is just not enough to end my marriage.

So it sounds like your wife is asking you to meet all her needs, and ideals, but reading this I can't help wonder about your needs. I don't just mean about gay sex (although there's certainly no problem with that), but in the larger scope of the relationship. Don't you need your wife to go to therapy with you? I think when dealing with emotional issues that really tax relationships you need to be really strict about asserting your needs. Otherwise in these situations it just comes down to who ever yells the loudest. You guys have to communicate your needs to one another commit to working on ways to honor one another's needs. If you don't it just isn't going to work!

I have been though a very emotionally taxing few year with my partner where we both had major issues going on. It was an overwhelming challenge to support each other but what mattered most to me in this period was that I saw my partner trying to be there for me, and that I did my best to understand and be there for him.

On a side note I do empathize with you a bit on the bisexuality thing. I've been in a committed relationship with a man for five years and I love it most of the time, but sometimes I just miss girls. But I don't think you should think of it as sliding back into gay. That just isn't how being bi works. It doesn't, as I've found, mean that you are both at every second, you go through phases sometimes, where one sex just seems more appealing in one way or another. I think you need to communicate about your phases with your wife so that she can understand. Part of her being in love with you is understanding who you really are, and what goes on inside you. If she isn't will to try to understand or accept this part of you, and find a way to make it work with her needs in the relationship, then I think you need to ask yourself how much that might damage you or the relationship.

Being a man is more than your sexuality. Are you kind, sensitive, thoughtful a person of integrity? Then you ARE a man.What your wife is saying is cruel.

That has to be one of the nice and kindest things that anyone has said to me in a long time. You gave me butterflies in my stomach.