[minneymouse]

I'm feeling quite desperate and would be grateful for any advice.

I've been going to therapy for five years. I've done DBT and schema therapy and parts of ACT, which have all helped me massively. I have had a very strong relationship with my T, who was willing to love me and give me a lot. Despite making significant progress in my 'real life', my internal working model of who others are, and how they feel about me, and how I can expect them to respond, remains broken.

I experience high distress on separation from T and others I love, but it's the reunion which I can't handle at all. I wait all week to see T or speak to her on the phone, I imagine feeling close, I imagine which difficulties I'll address, but the instant she's 'mine'/available something deep inside me shifts and I couldn't care less. These feelings of not caring, of not wanting her, of wanting to leave, to get away from her, rip through me, and I can't control or get past them. I've tried sitting quietly with the feelings and not expressing them. I've tried speaking them aloud. Nothing helps. It is the most painful feeling in the world to want someone desperately until they are right in front of you, then feel compelled to throw them away. I long to connect with her, to feel less alone, but I am trapped here in hell because I can't get past this ambivalence which comes out of nowhere.

This happened again yesterday and she told me I was burning her out, which are the words I've feared for five years. Everyone before her (not Ts, but 'helping figures') left me way way before the five year mark, because I am just too much. I know the way I feel is hurting and rejecting T, and she's sick of it. By the time I am able to reach out and try to be near here, she has turned away. I feel she is probably lost to me, and I can't sleep, can't go to work, can't do anything except google 'attachment' looking for solutions.

I told her last night I would take a break. It felt like the only way to press 'pause' so at least we don't further self destruct to a place from which we are never able to recover. But I don't know how we could ever unpause when neither she nor I knows how to get me out of this place. If I've lost her I don't know if I will be able to stay.

What should I do please?

[unaluna]

What do you talk about that's fun or interesting to one or both of you? My t and i went thru a whole thing over various foods. My family of origin doesnt accept me or my food, so for my t to share the concept of food, food itself, and build rituals around food - like offering a glass of water - all became part of the work of attachment. Did you guys not do this? Are you more formal? Trying to get a feel for your relationship. Eta - there were other connections, of course.

[minneymouse]

Bless you hankster for replying. We have a very close and informal relationship. In her old office she could make us both a drink, but not at this office. She does pick me up a little snack each week and offers it to me as I leave. I keep a blanket in her office which she'll wrap around me etc. But all of this gets derailed by me getting stuck in ambivalence and spending most of the session feeling overwhelmed with the need to leave. We have spent many years working on the ending/separation side of things, which has improved a lot.

Now we're coming unstuck at the beginning. For a while we had an agreement that we'd start the session with something we wanted to show each other. So she'd show me some photos or an app on her ipad. That was good because it was a bit distracting and got us connecting, but we stopped for some reason. When we used to text we'd text 'random' things to connect, but we don't text anymore. I think she feels stuck too and doesn't want to try anymore because her experience has been that 'nothing works'.

[Leah123]

Do you ever have sessions just to talk about the progress you've made: to dwell on your hard work and being proud of yourself and on the improvements she's seen and to thank her for the partnership? Perhaps taking some time for that would help shift the tenor.

If you found the sharing at the beginning of the session helped, I'd definitely suggest you ask her to start that again too.

Also, have you all tried grounding exercises? Sometimes those help me settle physically and get a little bit more in my body, out of my head, which makes it easier to open up.

Perhaps writing could be another option?

My only other suggestion is not to pressure yourself: I've found it often backfires on me if I try and force myself to open up. My question would really be... why are you feeling the way you are. It's so critical to honor that feeling. The key to opening up for me isn't trying to push myself for fear I'll get rejected otherwise, which is where you seem to be right now, but to make myself feel safe enough that opening up happens naturally.

[Asiablue]

I don't blame you for feeling awful about this. I hope you know that if she is her burnt out, you haven't done that to her, despite what she says. She hasn't looked after herself well enough, which in turn means she can't look after you properly either. You cannot make anyone burn-out. Yes, your work together may be intense or challenging but it is very workable providing she keeps good boundaries and has great support for herself and has good self-care.

I'm sorry she made it sound like you were to blame but presumably if she's burnt-out then she's not going to handle things properly. But she needs to hold herself to account and not her clients. If she needs a break she should take it. It's not your job to look after her and take yourself away from your therapy in order to give her a rest.

[minneymouse]

Leah- thank you for your suggestions. Yes we occasionally have 'parties' to celebrate things and take stock. I do try to thank her but I know I haven't been acting gratefully towards her recently. I could try that if we do see each other again. I have tried calming breathing and listening to encouraging things as I wait (the last couple of times I have disintegrated before I've even got through the outside door) but maybe I should try starting a session with mindfulness.

Asia- thank you for reassuring me on the 'burnt out' thing. I don't think it felt like blaming me when she said it- just her expressing that she can't anymore. I don't know about her boundaries- she has always seemed fine with them even if they are looser than most other Ts'. It is usually 11pm before she can call me and I guess we are both tired by then which doesn't help and on the phone she kept saying how tired she was and how she couldn't do this. I don't know.

Leah- you are right, I feel like the only thing to do is make how I feel *stop*. Not just because of the fear of losing T, but because of my own frustration. I have things I actually want to get done in therapy e.g. tackle my disordered eating, yet session after session I leave with nothing addressed or accomplished; and I haven't even had a moment of closeness, which is the other reason I go to therapy- to feel less alone. I feel stressed about the money and my lack of progress. You're right I think about this feeling being the work to address, not just something getting in the way of the work. T asked me the same question about 'why' on the phone, but I sincerely don't know, and I worry that even if I did know, insight wouldn't be sufficient to actually change my feelings and behaviour.

[HazelGirl]

She sounds like she may have gotten too close to you, and cannot remain objective about your rejecting behavior. She should not be calling you at 11 PM if she doesn't have the energy or ability to do so. It sounds like she has some things she needs to work through on her end and fix. Does she have supervision? She needs to talk to someone about this and get some advice and supervision on her feelings and behaviors.

But this is not your fault that she has over-extended herself. It is her fault. And she needs to do the work of fixing it. I am sorry it has hurt you.

As for your rejecting, I know it's not really in your control. I get that. Have you talked to her when it's happening about how you're feeling like you want to run away and leave? I try to make sure I tell my T whenever I am feeling like that, even though I don't have any intention of actually going anywhere.

[unaluna]

What is your t burning out on exactly? Is your health and wellness at risk? Because i dont understand why she is giving you a snack when you leave. I was afraid to appear needy by accepting a glass of water from my t, but what is the dynamic ie the psychodynamic around this snack?

[minneymouse]

Thank you HazelGirl. Yes she does have supervision. I don't know if she has spoken about this particular issue or what the supervisor suggested. Yes I have tried to talk about it as it's happening but it never goes well. How does your T respond when you tell her you feel like leaving? What has helped you at those times?

Hankster, I think the snack is part of easing the separation- a piece of nurture to take with me. Not totally sure. I guess I am a whole lot more needy and demanding than you have ever been with your T.

[HazelGirl]

MM, what has helped me the most at those times is that my T has said that she understands why I feel that way, helps me to understand it, and most of all, she allows it. It's not "bad" that I feel that way and she isn't angry or rejecting when I express those feelings. I can feel like I want to run away because it's normal and human to feel that way sometimes. Even when I don't really understand why, I am allowed to have seemingly "irrational" feelings and reactions to things going on in me and in my therapy.

I think I may have burned my ex-therapist out after seven years of seeing him. I wasn't needy and didn't call or email, but i just didn't get better. The best thing for me was for him to ask me to do something I couldn't do therefore ending the relationship. I have found a new therapist and I think he is going to be able to help me. I don't think I will feel the strong attachment to him like I did the old therapist. It has been the most painful thing in the world, but probably the best thing for me. I would look into getting a new therapist.

edited to add: I think her saying you're burning her out was a horrible thing to say.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by minneymouse

I'm feeling quite desperate and would be grateful for any advice.

I've been going to therapy for five years. I've done DBT and schema therapy and parts of ACT, which have all helped me massively. I have had a very strong relationship with my T, who was willing to love me and give me a lot. Despite making significant progress in my 'real life', my internal working model of who others are, and how they feel about me, and how I can expect them to respond, remains broken.

I experience high distress on separation from T and others I love, but it's the reunion which I can't handle at all. I wait all week to see T or speak to her on the phone, I imagine feeling close, I imagine which difficulties I'll address, but the instant she's 'mine'/available something deep inside me shifts and I couldn't care less. These feelings of not caring, of not wanting her, of wanting to leave, to get away from her, rip through me, and I can't control or get past them. I've tried sitting quietly with the feelings and not expressing them. I've tried speaking them aloud. Nothing helps. It is the most painful feeling in the world to want someone desperately until they are right in front of you, then feel compelled to throw them away. I long to connect with her, to feel less alone, but I am trapped here in hell because I can't get past this ambivalence which comes out of nowhere.

This happened again yesterday and she told me I was burning her out, which are the words I've feared for five years. Everyone before her (not Ts, but 'helping figures') left me way way before the five year mark, because I am just too much. I know the way I feel is hurting and rejecting T, and she's sick of it. By the time I am able to reach out and try to be near here, she has turned away. I feel she is probably lost to me, and I can't sleep, can't go to work, can't do anything except google 'attachment' looking for solutions.

I told her last night I would take a break. It felt like the only way to press 'pause' so at least we don't further self destruct to a place from which we are never able to recover. But I don't know how we could ever unpause when neither she nor I knows how to get me out of this place. If I've lost her I don't know if I will be able to stay.

What should I do please?

I've been thinking about you all day since I read your thread. I identify somewhat with your description of wanting to be with your T all week, imagining the closeness and what you'll talk about, but then, when sitting there, and she's actually in front of you, wanting to push my T away. I don't want to push mine away, but when I'm there, with her, there's always some sense of disappointment (well, not always, but often) because I see that she's not the answer. I'm probably way off here, but do you feel any sense of disappointment when the moment finally comes, and you're sitting in your session with your T? Could that be what is making you want to leave? Could it possibly be that, instead of not caring, you care so much that you can't bear to be disappointed? I get the feeling that you can't tolerate the closeness even though you still crave it. Do you think that it's because 5 years is a long time and you're thinking it's "over"?

I think your T telling you that you are burning her out is unproductive. That must hurt a lot!

I wonder if a version of SE would help. When you feel like running from your T, can you think where you feel that in your body? My T says our bodies tell us a lot about how we're feeling. Does she allow touch? Maybe that would be a way to get to what's really wrong. Or drawing in the session? Something different from sitting there and feeling stuck, is what I'm getting at. I feel your pain and know that my suggestions are probably not what you need. But if your T practices mindfulness and breathing, I think it might be good to do that first thing in your session, together.

I am so sorry you're going through such a difficult time. It also could be that you've come as far as you can with your T, and that it is time for a change. If she's frustrated, it's not going to help you.

I hope you can get some relief from your pain, soon!

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by minneymouse

Hankster, I think the snack is part of easing the separation- a piece of nurture to take with me. Not totally sure. I guess I am a whole lot more needy and demanding than you have ever been with your T.

Idk, i can be pretty needy! But its not a competition. And if my questions dont resonate with you, thats okay too.

[Petra5ed]

I've had the same experience as you, although I'm not sure if it's that I suddenly feel ambivalent, I think it's me just straight up disassociating. I've had it happen where I was doing exactly as you describe feeling out of touch with all emotion, but then felt suddenly intensely hurt by some innocuous info such as my T announcing an upcoming vacation. That would be the transference, oy vey.

During the week keep a notebook with you and jot down all the ideas that come to mind of what to bring up in therapy . The day before your appointment email your T and tell her you have done this and that you plan to read it in session, then all you have to do is show up. You can even get extreme and tell her this is your new plan so that you'll always have something to discuss incase you forget. Don't be surprised when you show up and freak out because everything you thought you wanted to discuss you feel too scared to discuss, that happens to me every time, haha! That is why I mention emailing her before and tell her you've written something, so you don't sit there with it in your pocket and decide not to bother.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

MM, what has helped me the most at those times is that my T has said that she understands why I feel that way, helps me to understand it, and most of all, she allows it. It's not "bad" that I feel that way and she isn't angry or rejecting when I express those feelings. I can feel like I want to run away because it's normal and human to feel that way sometimes. Even when I don't really understand why, I am allowed to have seemingly "irrational" feelings and reactions to things going on in me and in my therapy.

HG, I'm just wondering how you express it to her? How you say it? If you're comfortable to share it, of course.

[peaches100]

Hi Minniemouse,

I have been seeing my t for several years myself, and I identify very much with the struggle you are having. I, too, can't wait until my session. I look forward to it and sometimes it feels like forever. Also, sometimes, I can imagine being with my t, or something she has said, while I am away from her office and feel close to her. But when I actually am sitting in front of her, I have trouble feeling any emotional closeness with her at all. Sometimes I feel no emotions, or I feel intensely anxious.

When I am not in her office, I often feel that empty feeling, that intense longing for her to hug me or hold my hand. But when I am in the office with her, I can't bring myself to ask. And if she offers, I usually say No. Because by then, the idea of getting too close scares the crap out of me.

But then after I leave her office, I feel disappointed and mad at myself because I go away without having ever gotten what I needed from her in the first place!

I've been trying to understand why I do this. I think, in my case, I have been hurt and rejected too many times by people I've trusted and let into my heart and loved. And it has been so incredibly painful that I don't know how to trust my t enough to let her close to me. Some part of me believes that even though the intense longing and craving for closeness is horribly painful, it would be even worse if I let down my guard, let her in, trusted her and attached. And then got burned again! I don't know if I could go through something like that again.

Does any of this resonate with you?

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by learning1

HG, I'm just wondering how you express it to her? How you say it? If you're comfortable to share it, of course.

I just tell her that I feel like I can't tolerate whatever it is that's bothering me (whether it's how much she knows about me, my fears of what she's thinking, her presence, whatever that is making me feel like running away) and I feel like I want to just quit and run away and never come back. Or I will say things like "I feel like I want to curl up in the corner and hide" so basically, I just describe exactly what my thoughts and physical reactions are. It's less about "feelings", and more about muscles tensing and wanting to move me out the door, and thoughts spinning around certain ideas and fears.