Exploring the codependent therapist

I've been wondering about this for a while. I often read and hear that a lot of codependent people become caregivers. So probably there's a lot of therapists out there who have or had codependency issues.

But I wonder a bit about how they would behave in their role as a therapist. Codependent people are known for wanting to please others, trying not to do any harm, wanting to help, etc. So I'd expect them to be the same towards their clients. Being very loving and caring and maybe being a bit too connected to their clients.

On the other hand I read somewhere that codependent therapists rather become attracted to other codependents (as clients), but they put themselves rather 'above' them. They develop a false kind of self esteem, and therapy is a place where they can be in charge, where they can be who they can not be in, for example, their relationship.

I'd really love to hear some opinions. I find it a fascinating dynamic to explore. :-)

And of course, personal experiences with a codependent therapist are also very welcome.

I'm sure there are some. I haven't run into one personally, but I can see that as a distinct possibility.

I have observed it in therapists I interviewed, ones I know as friends, and there are some bloggers who I believe fit the category. I run miles away from any therapist who acts like that. It is a big reason I make sure the therapist will stay back. From my friends, some do seem to be able to contain it in their professional life but are still disastrous in their personal lives.

Well, it makes sense to me that a therapist would be codependent in a way, but I think they are trained to have a healthy detachment form their work and their clients. I agree, the dynamic is fascinating. I wonder if my ex-t is co-dependent at all. He seems to be a caretaker type personality. I don't think he has the codependency thing going on though, because if a person is codependent in a relationsip (say if ex-t was) then the clients actions would affect them. And my actions do not affect ex-t, they do not elicit any response from him at all anymore.

If ex-t were really co-dependent, he would be more interested in not losing a relationship and more interested in trying to change my harmful behaviors to non-harmful ones.

As it stands, he is doing what any good t should be doing - being detatched and non-reactive - and therefore making me ultimately responsible for my actions and choices, and their consequences.

hmmm...it is an interesting thought.

I would hope that in their training and review and their own therapy processes they go through while getting their degrees, that codependency issues would have been detected and hopefully worked through to some degree and that they would also be very aware of the difference between care Taking and care Giving. It does take a lot of balance to keep own issues out of their work and have to learn to think in duality - watching the process and the interaction...
In order to protect themselves from being overwhelmed, they are taught to keep boundaries and some distance in order to remain effective for the patient and in their own personal lives...

just some weird thoughts..

good luck in your research,
WB

Most definitely. My T has discussed the need for therapists to be able to keep boundaries and compartmentalize if they plan to keep from burning out.

WB, I didn't realize there is a difference. How are caretaking and caregiving different? Thanks

In the US -they do not all have to go through therapy themselves to become therapists. And certain fields do seem to attract certain personality types.

And from what I have seen in the US, it does not appear that the universities do much at all to weed out those with mental illnesses that make the person unsuitable to be a therapist. I have heard a couple of professors discuss that they feel that the Americans with Disabilities Act prevents them from eliminating many people from the clinical psychology programs who will make truly horrible therapists due to the person's own mental illness.

Maybe I'm making things complicated, but here is my theory; I think that a lot of therapists are codependent in their relationships (with, let's say, their partners). And because they aren't 'the dominant one' there, they often seem to have this tendency more in their role as a therapist. Or is this completely insane?

I think their relationship with their clients is not the narcissist-codependent type, as it is in their other relationships outside of therapy. They use the therapy in a way they can compensate what they lack in life as general (if of course they didn't work through their codependency issues). And that would explain why they can still have the urge to be the 'rescuer', but they are not that attached to their clients.

Does it make any sense at all?

Do you think a person should not become a therapist if they have a mental illness? There are truly remarkable people out there with mental illnesses who have done some great work with people who happen to have a mental illness. It does not define a person and it should not limit a persons career options.

I don't think that is what she was saying. But if a person's mental illness is not stabilized, if they haven't worked through the most crippling of their issues, if their mental illness is to the degree that it would disrupt consistency and stability for their clients, then no, they probably shouldn't be in the field.

I know a fantastic psychotherapist who has bipolar disorder, but he is very stable, stays consistent with his meds, has very good insight into his own symptoms, etc., so it isn't a problem in his practice. He would be the first to say that if he lacked insight about his own illness, was unstable, and the hot mess that some of us can be when unstable with bipolar (I'm bipolar so I can speak to this), then he would have no business in the business. He would consider himself potentially damaging to his clients. He is very upfront and frank about this issue.

So what you are saying is that there may be a trend in people who are co-dependent in their other relationships, working as therapists, which meets their needs to feel powerful in at least one area of their lives? I think you would see this more in a narcissistic type therapist. But maybe since the hypothetical you are describing is the co-dependent in other relationships, they take on the role of the narcissist in the therapy relationship? Ie the "dominant" one? I'm not familiar with the dynamic as much, I would need to learn more about it, but yes, it seems to make sense.

Are you doing research for school or something? Personal curiosity?

Yes, I think that that is what I was trying to explain.

Just, personal curiosity

The psychologist who im seeing has very good boundaries, he is there for me in crisis. He does care for all clients. I respect him for that he cares for me and takes time to have a life outside of work. I know im not making sense here. He has good boundaries. Actually he gets worried when I do not phone in between sessions.

I have this document that sort of simplifies it...It is kind of long, but felt it relevant to post...hope you don't mind..


Caretaking vs. Caregiving

1. When I am Caretaking, I assume responsibility for meeting the needs of others – even those needs which they should meet themselves.

-When I am Caregiving, I do not do for others what they can and should do for themselves. I also do for others what they truly need me to do.

2. When I am Caretaking, I feel responsible for the feelings of others. If they are happy, I take credit, if they are sad, it is my fault.

-When I am Caregiving, I recognize that my behavior affects others, but I know that it is their reaction to my behavior that produces their feelings. Therefore, I do not assume responsibility for the emotional states of others.

3. When I am Caretaking, I expect others to live up to my expectations “for their own good.” If they do not do it my way, I get upset.

-When I am Caregiving, I make no demands of others. If their behavior goes against my advice, I do not get upset.

4. When I am Caretaking, I often try to control and manipulate others into doing things “my way.” If it turns out right, I can take the credit, but if it turns out wrong, I feel guilty or else blame others.

-When I am Caregiving, I do not control. I give others the freedom to make their own mistakes, and experience no guilt or blame when they do.

5. When I am Caretaking, I focus so much on the needs of others that I neglect my own needs…maybe even lose a healthy sense of what my needs are.

-When I am Caregiving, I remain alert to my needs, and consider meeting my needs as important as meeting the needs of others.

6. When I am Caretaking, I see others as an extension of myself. Therefore, I do not really see them for themselves; I see them for myself. I have lost my boundaries in the relationship.

-When I am Caregiving, I retain a sense of my own boundaries, and therefore possess the ability to see other people for who they are in themselves.

7. When I am Caretaking, I often feel tired, burdened, and resentful because so much of my personal energy is tied up in the welfare of others.

-When I am Caregiving, I feel relaxed, free and peaceful, because I have more energy within myself.

8. When I am Caretaking, I do not love others.

-When I am Caregiving, I truly do love others.

-Anonymous

I find this conversation fascinating!

I'm a (recovering!) codependent. And, yeah, I don't doubt for a minute that there's a lot of codependent therapists out there. The rush you can get from controlling another's emotions is addictive. And so is the power. Emotional vampirism FTW...

I would hope that the majority of them have worked enough in their issues that they can use them to benefit their clients rather than 'feed' off them. The key I think is to remember that keeping someone happy is not the same as helping them.

Wysteria Blue - thanks for posting that list! I see the difference now

Just Shakey - this is where a therapist can be gifted and use their gifts for healing others.. When you can manipulate emotions of others, you can help them feel what it is like to feel happier when you don't remember what that feels like (not sure if that will make sense or not). But yeah, I think therapists all manipulate people's emotions, and if that is codependent, then a lot of them probably are

In the sense of "caring for other people", there is no difference in meaning. Wysteria's long explanation is lovely but it reflects personal usage - which is not to say that it is wrong, just that it is not universal, or representative for "what the words mean". I'm copying the below from a post I wrote here a few months ago:

One reason people choose the "giver" variant more frequently now than they used to may be that they want to emphasize the fact that the care provider gives their care, but doesn't take anything away. But this is speculation on my part - I do not actually know that.

True, but there's a lot more to being a therapist than simply being able to manipulate people and there's a huge difference between making someone happy to serve your own need to feel good and truly helping them. Codependents tend to project their own needs onto others. Not a good quality in a therapist. Maybe it's a little harsh, but sometimes I think a codependent therapist is a lot like an alcoholic managing a brewery.

Incidentally, codependents are usually completely unaware of just how manipulative they are. I used to think it was being nice. Couldn't understand why it would p*** people off at times. I'm still only maybe half aware of it at best.

I do think that if a T is codependent, they're often not aware of the fact that they manipulate others, so they can feel the way they 'need' or 'want' to feel. I do think they have very good intentions, thinking they really help people move forward. But imo, it's very dangerous when a very codependent person becomes the client of such a therapist. This person will try to make the therapist happy, will try to please him or her. And the codependent therapist has found the perfect 'victim', someone who's willing to be manipulated. I guess...

So actually, I don't know whether it makes any sense at all, but I think a codependent person doesn't feel strong enough to have a real self when being around a narcissistic one. So they obey. But when being around other codependents, they might use their frustrations of having no good grip on things, to manipulate those others. Because then they at least find a sense of self, find some strength inside of themselves.

I don't know. I'm trying to understand how the dynamic between 2 codependents works actually. I bet in therapy it happens a lot, two codependents sitting in the same room. But my mind can't understand what makes it work... if it works of course.

I don't understand how codependents manipulate others.

Through going to some Al Anon sessions last summer, I learned the TRUE meaning of codependency, and identified myself with it. I thought it meant someone who was so dependent on someone else they could not eat, breathe or live without that person. Now I see a codependent person is me. Someone who wants others to be happy, is willing to go out of their way for someone (especially in need), and feels good taking part in the well being of others. I guess I see that as a GOOD trait, and what humanity should be about. Taking care of each other. But codependency, to me, sounds like an awful word.....

And yes, as far as the OP of this post, I am no therapist, nor will I ever be, but I was a nursing assistant for several years. And what does that involve? Taking care of others. And now that my child is older, I have the interest in going back to that.

Is my T codependent? I wouldn't have a clue. But I wouldn't see it as bad if she was. Might it impair judgement somewhat? Maybe. But they would have a true care for their clients, unless, of course, the codependency issues were for selfish reasons alone. JMHO

I don't agree with that definition of codependency. It's half-right, but it's missing some important aspects. A codependent person uses those around them to meet needs of feeling important and special. If they don't get those needs met, they become angry and controlling of those they take care of. It's a way to guarantee they will always be in someone's life and the other person doesn't have a choice. They also feel empty and non-existent when non taking care of someone, and they allow themselves to be abused or otherwise taken advantage of in order to maintain the relationship. They want to "fix" broken people, which is why they choose narcissists, psychopaths, and addicts as mates. They want their love to be enough to fix the person and make them change.

All of those things are part of codependency, and they're all really bad.

Perhaps this will help:
Symptoms of Codependency | Psych Central