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Old Jul 23, 2014, 03:11 PM
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So I got in trouble last week with LCM for drunk texting her. She was angry with me. She told me that I am only to contact her outside of sessions when I am in crisis. Now, that has never been our system in the past. I know she said that because she was upset with me. I really scared her when I drunk texted her because she isn't used to me drinking and she thought I had ODed on sleeping pills.

So I responded to her anger by following exactly what she told me to do. I only contacted her to set up the next week because I didn't have a true emergency. I missed talking to her and I was nervous that she was still angry.

Well, I'm supposed to talk to her today. This morning, she texted me "I miss you" and then pushed the time back to talking later at night.

I am happy she said she misses me. I feel so much safer and cared for knowing that the silence felt awkward for her too. Now I'm just worried, did she only say it to make me feel more comfortable? Am I reading way too far into this?
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  #2  
Old Jul 23, 2014, 03:37 PM
CameraObscura CameraObscura is offline
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I know you've heard a lot of this on this board, but I worry for you in this relationship.

I don't doubt that LCM cares about you very much, she clearly does. She isn't maintaining good therapeutic boundaries with you, though. I think it is almost inevitable that one day she will realize she has been overextending herself with you, and act to put boundaries in place (or worse, realize she has burned out and refer you), and I am afraid that will be devastating to you. There is a pretty high risk that when she is licensed, she will come under pressure from her supervisors to act in a more boundaried way with you, as well.

I can't read her mind about her motivation in saying she misses you, none of us can, but it does seem like mixed signals to me - you may only contact her in crisis, but she'll miss you if you don't contact her. I fear that her stating that you can only contact her outside of session in crisis might be the beginning of a weather change in your relationship with LCM. I can't be certain, of course.

I hope that you will resume your search for a trauma therapist, a licensed and experienced one. I am so afraid for you that you're going to get dropped and really hurt in this relationship with LCM.
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  #3  
Old Jul 23, 2014, 04:44 PM
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I agree with everything CameraObscura has said.

I think it's obvious that your LC really cares about you and is trying to do her best to help you. Even so, by her own admission, she is going through something difficult right now and is emotionally stressed. After she told you this, you sent her the drunk text messages which obviously worried her and may have added to her emotional stress Now, she is asking that you only contact her between sessions if it is an emergency. I think she's starting to realize that she is overwhelmed and needs to establish some boundaries in order to take better care of herself (and, in turn, you). After all, if she's overwhelmed, she can't be of much help to anybody else.

Her need to establish boundaries is only going to increase. Since your relationship with her does not follow the boundaries of a licensed psychotherapist, if and when she becomes licensed and is under supervision (as is required for licensure), she will be forced to change the way she works with you. This isn't even her choice-- it's what the ethics of her profession mandate. So, assuming she is ethical, she will have to treat you like any other client if she comes your T. And, if she doesn't become your T, becoming licensed will probably force her to stop being your "LC" because (depending on the laws in your jurisdiction) it may be unethical for a licensed psychotherapist to have this kind of unregulated "LC" side business. If the laws in your area don't allow this, continuing anyway with you , as is, could open her up to censure or losing her license.

All of those issues aside, it's been suggested to you for a long time that you really need a qualified trauma therapist (even LC says so!). The fact that you were drinking and sending these drunk texts to T-- and (according to your recent posts) don't seem to be making significant progress on your pre-existing issues-- is evidence of that need. Even if LC does become licensed, that doesn't make her an experienced trauma therapist. You really need a T who has been licensed and in practice for years, who has already successfully helped other clients through trauma. It's really the most difficult kind of therapy to do and requires the most skill. I know you don't want to hear this right now, but I think if you found a qualified T (in addition!!!) to LC and put in the work, that you would make so much progress. You deserve that help and you deserve to make that progress. You should still continue to see LC, but just add in a trauma therapist. If you dealt with your trauma, I think your relationship with LC would probably improve as well because you could work through your attachment issues. As a result, the pain/over-analyzing associated with every interaction you have with LC would probably lessen. You relationship with LC might become smoother if you got help working through trauma and got to the root of your attachment difficulties. LC is helping you manage the day-to-day, but she isn't qualified to help you with the deeper stuff. It's impossible to make really significant change until you can work on the deeper, underlying issues.
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  #4  
Old Jul 23, 2014, 08:36 PM
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I worry for you as well. When ever I read your posts I feel like I understand how much you are hurting, and I worry about whether or not you are getting the care you need. You seem like a terrific person, and I would hate to see you not get all of the support and care you deserve. Your relationship with LCM seems so difficult and confusing so often. Therapy should be so much about developing a safe holding space. This means that the T must, must, must be consistent. There really shouldn't be very much ambiguity in the relationship. You should know what the limitations are and I really don't think a T should be scolding a client about Drunk texting. I think that T's should handle this by talking with the client about why this happened. And I think that they should work with the client if there is a pattern to find an acceptable solution to the problem.

I also would feel very confused if my T said that she missed me. I know that she has thought about me between sessions, and I have told her, when we have gone along time between sessions, that I missed her. But I would be kind of unconfortable if she said that she missed me back. This might make me think that I am somehow more important to her than other clients, and that she is invested in our relationship in away that she shouldn't be. And while I might want to fantasize that I am special to her, I know that it would not be good for me to think that she cares for me more than the others.

Growli, I have been to a lot of T's and have a lot of experience looking for a good one. If you ever want to know more about the process of finding a good T you can PM me.
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  #5  
Old Jul 23, 2014, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CameraObscura View Post
I know you've heard a lot of this on this board, but I worry for you in this relationship.

I don't doubt that LCM cares about you very much, she clearly does. She isn't maintaining good therapeutic boundaries with you, though. I think it is almost inevitable that one day she will realize she has been overextending herself with you, and act to put boundaries in place (or worse, realize she has burned out and refer you), and I am afraid that will be devastating to you. There is a pretty high risk that when she is licensed, she will come under pressure from her supervisors to act in a more boundaried way with you, as well.

I can't read her mind about her motivation in saying she misses you, none of us can, but it does seem like mixed signals to me - you may only contact her in crisis, but she'll miss you if you don't contact her. I fear that her stating that you can only contact her outside of session in crisis might be the beginning of a weather change in your relationship with LCM. I can't be certain, of course.

I hope that you will resume your search for a trauma therapist, a licensed and experienced one. I am so afraid for you that you're going to get dropped and really hurt in this relationship with LCM.

I feel like I'm safer with the "evil" I know rather than the evil I don't know. No one is perfect. She's not leaving me
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  #6  
Old Jul 23, 2014, 09:54 PM
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Do you have a back up plan if she does. Nothing is guaranteed. You should prepare yourself emotionally we care for you. Even our regular therapists that we see week to week, for very long time, are not guaranteed, and as several posters pointed out, when she does get licensed things may change. Things may change right now with her current stressors, I hope they dont. You need to always have some sort of backup plan to at least be emotionally prepared or have some sort of coping skills. To say she will never leave me, really worries me growly.
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  #7  
Old Jul 23, 2014, 10:26 PM
AmazingGrace7 AmazingGrace7 is offline
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This sounds so confusing and painful. I agree with what others have said and wrote my own personal experience in another thread. I think your questions indicate your own confusion within your relationship. I hope you are able to discuss this with her or by having a consultation with a licensed T.
  #8  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 12:23 AM
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Do you have a back up plan if she does. Nothing is guaranteed. You should prepare yourself emotionally we care for you. Even our regular therapists that we see week to week, for very long time, are not guaranteed, and as several posters pointed out, when she does get licensed things may change. Things may change right now with her current stressors, I hope they dont. You need to always have some sort of backup plan to at least be emotionally prepared or have some sort of coping skills. To say she will never leave me, really worries me growly.
I don't know why the goal from everyone seems to be to make me paranoid and panic. I know that isn't any of your intentions, but it really feels that way. Everything is good right now. LCM and I are fine. Yeah she isn't perfect and she confuses me sometimes, but no one is perfect. She's not going to leave me out to dry. She was so pissed at TT for doing that to me. She's not that much of a hypocrite to do the same to me.

Yeah things will change. I'm going to see her in an office next year weekly like a normal client. Change doesn't have to mean bad. I know she wants to move across the country eventually. That doesn't really change the fact that we can still call. She's not leaving me.
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  #9  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 12:38 AM
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I worry for you as well. When ever I read your posts I feel like I understand how much you are hurting, and I worry about whether or not you are getting the care you need. You seem like a terrific person, and I would hate to see you not get all of the support and care you deserve. Your relationship with LCM seems so difficult and confusing so often. Therapy should be so much about developing a safe holding space. This means that the T must, must, must be consistent. There really shouldn't be very much ambiguity in the relationship. You should know what the limitations are and I really don't think a T should be scolding a client about Drunk texting. I think that T's should handle this by talking with the client about why this happened. And I think that they should work with the client if there is a pattern to find an acceptable solution to the problem.

I also would feel very confused if my T said that she missed me. I know that she has thought about me between sessions, and I have told her, when we have gone along time between sessions, that I missed her. But I would be kind of unconfortable if she said that she missed me back. This might make me think that I am somehow more important to her than other clients, and that she is invested in our relationship in away that she shouldn't be. And while I might want to fantasize that I am special to her, I know that it would not be good for me to think that she cares for me more than the others.

Growli, I have been to a lot of T's and have a lot of experience looking for a good one. If you ever want to know more about the process of finding a good T you can PM me.
She didn't outright scold me. She told me she was angry that I scared her. She said she gets very upset when I do something that makes her feel like I am in danger. It's definitely okay to do that in a real crisis, but she said she felt like I took advantage of her a little bit/played with her for attention.

I talked to her today. Later than she said as usual. I asked her what she meant about saying she misses me. She said she just missed me and wanted to tell me. She said she had been wondering about how I was doing all week and by the end of the week, she noticed she was missing me quite a bit. I asked her how she felt about the boundaries we had last week. She said she was proud of me for following her directions exactly. She said it made her look forward to our session and more excited to hear from me, but it made her miss me and wonder about how I was doing. I asked her if she wants me to keep the same boundaries. The answer I got from her was kinda scattered. She was like "well maybe you can text me more than never... but not anything overly negative or scary unless it is a real emergency. Like you can text me if something really exciting happens". I'm talking to her again tomorrow. Hopefully she will give me something more concrete than that.

I am special to her. Our relationship is different than the other clients. I've worked with her longer than anyone else. She told me I'm special above and beyond the fact that all of her clients are special. Why does it matter how she is invested in the relationship? We don't really have a real T/client relationship but it isn't horribly unhealthy.
  #10  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by growlithing View Post
I am special to her. Our relationship is different than the other clients. I've worked with her longer than anyone else. She told me I'm special above and beyond the fact that all of her clients are special. Why does it matter how she is invested in the relationship? We don't really have a real T/client relationship but it isn't horribly unhealthy.
I think it matters how she invests in you because she is in position of power. I know that your relationship is not typical, but you are seeing her for a healing purpose. And almost always in this culture when you see someone who is a professional healer of any kind they have power. You are usually at the other person's mercy. So how that person thinks about you matters a great deal. If she becomes invested in the relationship in such away that she uses the relationship to meet personal needs then she could hurt you, and compromise her ability to function in a healing capacity. Your LCM cannot want things back from you. She cannot want you to miss her back, or even to care about her back (these things might happen, but she can't want them). All she can want from you is for you to be honest about who you are, and how you feel. And all she can do is help you with that.
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  #11  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 01:37 AM
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I think it matters how she invests in you because she is in position of power. I know that your relationship is not typical, but you are seeing her for a healing purpose. And almost always in this culture when you see someone who is a professional healer of any kind they have power. You are usually at the other person's mercy. So how that person thinks about you matters a great deal. If she becomes invested in the relationship in such away that she uses the relationship to meet personal needs then she could hurt you, and compromise her ability to function in a healing capacity. Your LCM cannot want things back from you. She cannot want you to miss her back, or even to care about her back (these things might happen, but she can't want them). All she can want from you is for you to be honest about who you are, and how you feel. And all she can do is help you with that.
She didn't say that she does? She misses me and cares about me. She never said she wants that to be mutual. It is but I don't think she cares if it's mutual? The only thing she has ever me for was to take care of myself and respect the boundaries she puts down. She admits that she's not being very clear about the boundaries and says she is working on figuring it all out. Okay she once asked me if I knew where to find ENT doctors that work with wind players/singers. But that isn't a big deal. It's no more of a favor than if she had asked me where to find a piano teacher.
  #12  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 01:53 AM
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That wasn't a smart move on her part to text you to say she misses you. Not professional. That's just my perspective.
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  #13  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 01:54 AM
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That wasn't a smart move on her part to text you to say she misses you. Not professional. That's just my perspective.

What harm could come from it?
  #14  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 02:07 AM
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She didn't say that she does? She misses me and cares about me. She never said she wants that to be mutual. It is but I don't think she cares if it's mutual? The only thing she has ever me for was to take care of myself and respect the boundaries she puts down. She admits that she's not being very clear about the boundaries and says she is working on figuring it all out. Okay she once asked me if I knew where to find ENT doctors that work with wind players/singers. But that isn't a big deal. It's no more of a favor than if she had asked me where to find a piano teacher.
I mean more if she wants something emotional back from you, that would be damaging. I just worried that saying I miss you could convey something like that. But the real problem is that she does these things that make you wonder. You really deserve a T who can be there consistently and unambiguously. When you have Trauma this is even more important, because so often people who are living with trauma have dealt with someone who is inconsistent with them. Part of the stress of trauma is hanging on to every second, and trying to anticipate what is going to happen next so you can react. I really don't think its good to have anything in the therapeutic relationship that mirrors this in even the smallest way. To heal you really need someone who can be there as a constant. Feeling safe in the world is about knowing that there is a safe place you can return to again and again. This is one of the major benefits of therapy--therapy provides this safe place to people. And just the existence of such a place is healing.
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 02:13 AM
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"well maybe you can text me more than never... but not anything overly negative or scary unless it is a real emergency. Like you can text me if something really exciting happens".
Seriously? So now you are there to made her feel good about herself? I.e. She feels bad not knowing what's going on in your life but wants/needs to hear only the good stuff (and a real emergency to cover her ***)? A good friend would do more than that... hope you're right and you two will work it out on your next session...
I do hope it will get better when she gets a new office and thus there'll be more structure to your RS...

I know ppl already said that and you didn't agree but really, an experienced trauma T could do wonders for you (and, cause it does seem important to you, for your RS with your LC as well).
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 02:26 AM
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She told you not to text except in a crisis then she texts you? Double standards.
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 06:41 AM
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She told you not to text except in a crisis then she texts you? Double standards.

She texted me to set up our session. We usually don't have a time agreed on until the day of. She texted me "I miss you" *enter* "when are we talking today? I'll have to talk after 8pm"
  #18  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 08:09 AM
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Seriously? So now you are there to made her feel good about herself? I.e. She feels bad not knowing what's going on in your life but wants/needs to hear only the good stuff (and a real emergency to cover her ***)? A good friend would do more than that... hope you're right and you two will work it out on your next session...
I do hope it will get better when she gets a new office and thus there'll be more structure to your RS...

I know ppl already said that and you didn't agree but really, an experienced trauma T could do wonders for you (and, cause it does seem important to you, for your RS with your LC as well).

What does RS mean?

She isn't doing it to to cover her ***. She likes hearing from me but can't handle me talking to her constantly or sending her depressing texts when I'm not in danger. No one could. Not even a friend. And she isn't my friend.
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 09:00 AM
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What does RS mean?

She isn't doing it to to cover her ***. She likes hearing from me but can't handle me talking to her constantly or sending her depressing texts when I'm not in danger. No one could. Not even a friend. And she isn't my friend.
Sorry, writing down some notes for my thesis and got lost in abbreviations RS- relationship.
And yes, she's not your friend and I know you know it but what I was trying to point out was that out of session contact should be for you and you only- it still is a part of therapy even though she's not getting paid for it so she still should be treating it that way or not at all.
It's not about what she'd like to hear but what would be beneficial for you- and I can't see how texting her with only the positive stuff could be... But hey, maybe I'm wrong. I just felt this arrangement was too one sided (i.e. for her benefit only- even in a friendship you'd get more out of it).
And as for her covering her ***- that was regarding the true emergency exception- and yes, I stand behind it. I think Ts do that to protect themselves from liability. And no, I don't see anything wrong with that.
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 11:07 AM
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So I got in trouble last week with LCM for drunk texting her. She was angry with me. She told me that I am only to contact her outside of sessions when I am in crisis. Now, that has never been our system in the past. I know she said that because she was upset with me. I really scared her when I drunk texted her because she isn't used to me drinking and she thought I had ODed on sleeping pills.

So I responded to her anger by following exactly what she told me to do. I only contacted her to set up the next week because I didn't have a true emergency. I missed talking to her and I was nervous that she was still angry.

Well, I'm supposed to talk to her today. This morning, she texted me "I miss you" and then pushed the time back to talking later at night.

I am happy she said she misses me. I feel so much safer and cared for knowing that the silence felt awkward for her too. Now I'm just worried, did she only say it to make me feel more comfortable? Am I reading way too far into this?

To answer your original question, here are all the reasons I can think of that LCM might have said, "I miss you," via text. Two or more can go together.

1) She honestly misses you

2) She thought you wanted to hear it and it's a nice thing to say

3) It is a nicer way than saying, "Hello," and softens the blow of having to push back the time to talk

4) She feels slightly bad about the interchange that followed your drunk texts and she wanted to start off on a different note.

In my book, actions speak louder than words. If someone says she misses me, I will for actions to back that up.

Once after my T came back from a vacation, she said, "It is good to see you!" She seemed like she meant it.

I know you feel ganged up on when you post here about LCM. I think it's because LCM seems to be in over her head. There's nothing wrong with you analyzing what she says -- I would do the same -- it's just that this particular therapist doesn't seem to have thought through what she was doing. It seems like she is open about that fact with you.

From what I understand, a year ago you went inpatient and she was the on-call schedule coordinator who was also training to be a therapist. (Correct me if this is wrong!)

You got to see her each morning as she made her tea. She took a real liking and fondness to you and spent extra time with you. She held you and stroked your head and tied your shoes. And this was more caring than you had really ever received, growing up in an abusive household.

Later, you left the facility and she left her job and she agreed to keep in touch with you as a non-paid therapeutic life coach who also serves as a proxy-mom.

Is that it?
  #21  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 11:33 AM
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What harm could come from it?
It's again just more of the inconsistent boundaries she has which can be painful and confusing for you (or anyone in your situation). I've always worried about this relationship because she is so clearly in over her head and sometimes seems conflicted herself by setting boundaries and then breaking them.
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  #22  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 11:40 AM
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To answer your original question, here are all the reasons I can think of that LCM might have said, "I miss you," via text. Two or more can go together.

1) She honestly misses you

2) She thought you wanted to hear it and it's a nice thing to say

3) It is a nicer way than saying, "Hello," and softens the blow of having to push back the time to talk

4) She feels slightly bad about the interchange that followed your drunk texts and she wanted to start off on a different note.

In my book, actions speak louder than words. If someone says she misses me, I will for actions to back that up.

Once after my T came back from a vacation, she said, "It is good to see you!" She seemed like she meant it.

I know you feel ganged up on when you post here about LCM. I think it's because LCM seems to be in over her head. There's nothing wrong with you analyzing what she says -- I would do the same -- it's just that this particular therapist doesn't seem to have thought through what she was doing. It seems like she is open about that fact with you.

From what I understand, a year ago you went inpatient and she was the on-call schedule coordinator who was also training to be a therapist. (Correct me if this is wrong!)

You got to see her each morning as she made her tea. She took a real liking and fondness to you and spent extra time with you. She held you and stroked your head and tied your shoes. And this was more caring than you had really ever received, growing up in an abusive household.

Later, you left the facility and she left her job and she agreed to keep in touch with you as a non-paid therapeutic life coach who also serves as a proxy-mom.

Is that it?

Not quite.

I was inpatient in a hospital. The hospital discharged me to a treatment program. She was my case manager at the program. She wasn't a therapist in training or on call at all. She actually is a full time case manager, training people under her as well as being a group leader. She is a psychoanalyst and whatever that entails, however outside of the program, she is training to be a therapist.

She worked in the program from 9-5. She would meet with her clients individually as well as lead groups. I would see her in the groups, meet with her privately, and just see her around.

The shoes and the forehead were two instances out of many. She was very kind to me yet very mother like. She never literally held me.

After I was in the program for 2-3 months, I was discharged. She and I decided to continue working privately under the title "life coach" which is more similar to what she did (or was supposed to do) as a case manager. I do pay her, well, my mom pays her.

She never left her job. The program was bought out by another company and the program is ending in August. She is still currently working there.
  #23  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 11:43 AM
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growlithing growlithing is offline
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Originally Posted by Lauliza View Post
It's again just more of the inconsistent boundaries she has which can be painful and confusing for you (or anyone in your situation). I've always worried about this relationship because she is so clearly in over her head and sometimes seems conflicted herself by setting boundaries and then breaking them.

Her exact quote pertaining to this last night was "we're going to have to learn together". And we will have to learn what works and what doesn't. I'll talk to her about it again today. She was really tired last night so we split the session up into two sessions.
  #24  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 11:44 AM
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growlithing growlithing is offline
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You're also only hearing my perspective
  #25  
Old Jul 24, 2014, 01:08 PM
PeeJay PeeJay is offline
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Originally Posted by growlithing View Post
Not quite.

I was inpatient in a hospital. The hospital discharged me to a treatment program. She was my case manager at the program. She wasn't a therapist in training or on call at all. She actually is a full time case manager, training people under her as well as being a group leader. She is a psychoanalyst and whatever that entails, however outside of the program, she is training to be a therapist.

She worked in the program from 9-5. She would meet with her clients individually as well as lead groups. I would see her in the groups, meet with her privately, and just see her around.

The shoes and the forehead were two instances out of many. She was very kind to me yet very mother like. She never literally held me.

After I was in the program for 2-3 months, I was discharged. She and I decided to continue working privately under the title "life coach" which is more similar to what she did (or was supposed to do) as a case manager. I do pay her, well, my mom pays her.

She never left her job. The program was bought out by another company and the program is ending in August. She is still currently working there.
Ok lol ... this is what happens when I follow along via message boards!

Thanks for clarifying.

Is it possible that when she does her supervision consultations, she can discuss your case as well with her supervisor?
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attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




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