[shakespeare47]

I've been seeing my therapist for a while, and thought I trusted and understood him.

Today, he told me that he sometimes works with Narconon, and that he believes that they have gotten an undeserved reputation from the media.... that their methods really are effective, and that they don't appear to have ties to Scientology. At least he said that he didn't know anyone in our local Narconon who was a Scientologist.

If I am to take his comments at face value, then I feel I should fire him... I looked into Narconon, and what I found wasn't good. Narconon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia My therapist suggested that he thought taking medicine and using saunas was successful at treating drug addictions....

I like to think he was making some kind of point, but if he was, he totally manipulated me into believing he believes Narconon is a good program. I'm even embarrassed that I let his opinions influence me.... (even while I was talking to him, I thought to myself, this sounds weird.... )

Anyway, I'm frustrated and confused.... I thrive on honestly and openness, and this really bothers me.

[unaluna]

Is this guy licensed in your state? Where did you find him? I think now we know what he means by religion.

[shakespeare47]

No. He's Episcopalian... I've known him for over 10 years or so... he's licensed.

I think he is most likely messing with my head., and that he doesn't really have much respect for Narconon... I like to think there is some reason for his deception.. maybe he just doesn't have my best interests in mind.. or maybe I have just misjudged him and he was being honest about Narconon.

I thought things were working out okay.... maybe I was wrong...

[vonmoxie]

Maybe Episcopalian was his upbringing, and is now just what he says. In that Scientology is markedly anti-psychiatry, and in a fanatical way, it's hardly something someone in his field could advertise.

Mathematically, ethically, I don't see how someone in the field could be recommending Narconon without having knowledge of their affiliation with that organization. How they could appear to anyone as not having those ties is just unfathomable to me, when it take 2 seconds to find out. He's either oblivious, or feigning oblivion, but while I'm not even sure which is worse, I heavily suspect the latter. It would be deeply concerning to me personally, to be taking advice from someone with that particular type of affiliation, and the many layers of complication that come with it.. especially based on some of the rather extreme history of the organization in question, which is hardly known for honesty and openness. And definitely steer clear of their gateway organizations..

How distressing. Sorry to hear it.. But I really don't think someone who doesn't have an affiliation with their parent organization, would be aligning themselves with Narconon when there are less controversial means of getting that kind of help.

[shakespeare47]

No, I'm fairly certain he still attends the Episcopal church... We've had an odd relationship.. I was very combative and rude at first (saw him for a couple of years, then quit, then came back after 5 years- I've been back about 1 1/2 months)... but, have tried to apologize.... but, there are times it seems he is still "getting even", or perhaps just using reverse psychology on me.

The only thing he really did, was suggest that Narconon was misunderstood, and that he helped them out in some way... he implied that he agreed with some of their methods (vitamins and sauna). He also said a 60 Minutes program made them look bad... and implied he believed that it was just 60 minutes making them out to look bad...

The thing is, I bought into his story (I didn't know anything about Narconon, except that people in our town have suggested it was based on Scientology, and that people were dissing their methods).... so, I went along... I even told him how the media made me look pretty bad, once... (I was interviewed by a paper, and they got some things wrong in such a way, that made me look pretty stupid)..

Now I just feel embarrassed.

[shakespeare47]

and there have been times when I thought we were making real progress....

I just don't get it..

[shakespeare47]

Mind games, and feeling like I've been tricked really bother me..

[vonmoxie]

Yeah, just the fact that you are in a position where you are wondering if he's messing with you, in itself is worrying to me. That's not the kind of thing I would want to be wondering about a therapist.

I would suggest at least asking him what he thinks about the organization himself, and press him to make more than a passing comment about it. But to me it's a situation where smoke is more than likely equal to fire. Of course he's only going to hint at it, see if you bite.. whereas if he was even remotely educated about it (which someone in his field absolutely should be) and not affiliated, he wouldn't get anywhere near it. Just my personal opinion, but it's a fairly educated one on this particular topic.

[SnakeCharmer]

Many years ago, before I ever heard of Scientology, I attended a convention that had to do with self-improvement. Hundreds of people. There was a big contingent of narconon people there as invited speakers and they provided workshops and sessions and the members all talked about how narconon saved their lives. They were highly impressive. I am not a credulous person, if anything, I tend to be overly skeptical. But I was impressed and I was thinking it might be a good referral source in the future if people I knew suffered intractable drug problems.

On the second day, the Big Name main speaker, the one I'd come to see, stood at the podium in distress. He outed narcanon as part of Scientology and confronted the conference organizers for using his name to promote attendance at a conference that was a thinly veiled attempt to introduce naive people interested in self-improvement to Scientology in a covert and dishonest manner. He did not mince words and he made it clear that either the Scientologists left before he gave his keynote address or he was leaving.

It was an uproar. I discovered I was by no means the only person taken in. I'd say the majority of attendees were in a state of shock that they'd been duped so thoroughly. Others thought the Big Name was making a big deal out of nothing and was showing some sort or religious intolerance. Like I said, uproar! After a recess of several hours, the Scientologists were gone, the conference manager was gone and the keynote address was given.

I doubt if your therapist is a Scientologist because Scientology hates psychiatry, psychology and any therapy other than what they provide. I doubt he could be a member in good standing and maintain a career as a T.

To me, the most likely explanation is that he has been duped. Just as I was duped. I was naive about Scientology and its connection to narconon. Doesn't mean my judgment is bad or that I'm dingy or foolish. I look back and for someone who didn't know about the link to Scientology there just wasn't any way spot it without digging the way you did.

I was grateful the Big Name Speaker set us straight at the conference. I was completely taken in by them. You might be doing your T a favor by making a hard copy of the link you posted here, handing it to him and telling him you did a little research after your convo on the subject.

See how that goes before you make any decisions about his character or motives or intelligence.

I wish you the best and hope you and your T can figure this out together.

[The_little_didgee]

Are his beliefs interfering with your psychotherapy or do you have a problem with him supporting an organization co-founded by L. Ron Hubbard? Did he recommend Narconon to you? If he isn't pushing his beliefs on you I don't see what the problem is.

[coolibrarian]

Wikipedia is notoriously inaccurate.

[elliemay]

Maybe his group is unusual. Maybe HIS experience with the group is different.

If you like this guy and otherwise the relationship is good why are you willing to believe Wikipedia over him and his experience?

I would talk to him about it. I doubt it was a lie.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

Are his beliefs interfering with your psychotherapy or do you have a problem with him supporting an organization co-founded by L. Ron Hubbard? Did he recommend Narconon to you? If he isn't pushing his beliefs on you I don't see what the problem is.

Heard of Lisa Macpherson? Just one example of what a problem like that could look like, but it's still a rather significant one. Pointing to why one might not want a member of that particular organization, based on the fanciful and psychologically questionable writings of a disordered individual, treating them for psychiatric conditions.

I'm not sure how it can be suggested that a person's belief system could be separated their psychiatric treatment methods, when that belief system includes intense anti-psychiatry tenets. The ways in which this could be a problem are numerous, and potentially catastrophic.

And Wikipedia hardly has a monopoly on awareness of the nature of this organization's activities.

See also:

Operation Clambake
Tony Ortega's Underground Bunker
Cult Education Institute

These are hardly big money-making endeavors (certainly nothing remotely close to those that Scientology boasts) but simply labors of love, for those who got out, those who might still get out, and those who support them.

[shakespeare47]

I plan on asking my T about it during the next session... I'll decide where to go from there.

[growlycat]

I'm 99% sure narcanon IS part of scientology. Run! Run! Run! Run!
Run some more!
Run! Run! Run! Run!
Run! Run! Run! Run!
Run! Run! Run! Run!
Run! Run! Run! Run!
Run! Run! Run! Run!
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Run! Run! Run! Run!
Run! Run! Run! Run!
Run! Run! Run! Run!
Run! Run! Run! Run!

[growlycat]

There is a narconon section right on the Scientology website
Narconon - Saving Lives from Drug Addiction

Narconon Exposed

[shakespeare47]

It's hard to explain... but, I think that he may not be taken in by scientology, and that he is rather just playing some odd mind game that I don't understand... (hopefully with my best intentions in mind?).

either way... it just seems inappropriate...

[growlycat]

If it is a mind game, it is pretty cruel. I don't see the point of it either.

[shakespeare47]

I'm trying to think of how I want to bring it up... maybe... "what was that you were telling me about Narconon, again?"

[Leah123]

I hope you won't play games with him about it, as you're concerned he may be doing with you. Expressing your deep concerns honestly is so important. One way or another, it will clear the air and resolve this as fast and painlessly as possible.

Whether he is a scientologist or not, whether he is involved with narconon or not, saying that saunas and vitamins help with drug addiction is simply unscientific quackery.

[shakespeare47]

^ I agree...

[Partless]

Originally Posted by Cherbiej

Wikipedia is notoriously inaccurate.

Yes I agree. In particular whenever religion or politics are involved. It's become the lazy choice, I rarely do any research anymore, just go to wiki and believe it like the Bible. But almost any time I do actual research, I see wiki is wrong in several ways, with sloppy research and sometimes blatant lies (hidden agendas). I think Scientology is one of those areas, lots of fear mongering around it too and I can not longer tell the truth from falsity.

Regardless, I was under the impression that Scientologists were not against psychology or therapy, but only psychiatry (because of medications and Big Pharma). If that's true, then one's therapist can have connections with them and still practice (just responding to a point brought up by couple of people earlier in the thread). Though I think therapists are slowly getting prescription privileges in some places, and that's a different story.

Why did the subject come up in the first place?

Is it possible you are just reading too much into things? Perhaps he has simply had good experiences with the group he has worked with and has rather naively decided they must all be good.

You seem to have a very love/hate relationship with your therapist. One moment you seem to think he is good for you the next not so much.

Do you think maybe when you think he is playing mind games that you may be devaluing?

[Lauliza]

I would ask him to talk more about Narcanon, just like you said. You can say it piqued your interest and you'd like him to explain more. One thing is for sure though, a good T keeps their personal beliefs/religious affiliations out of the therapy office. The fact that Narcanon was even a subject of conversation and that he was defending it is a red flag. I don't get what his point of playing some weird mind game would be, but thats another red flag too.