She terminated me and we are now friends but I cannot call her anything other than Dr. (her last name) when I speak to her. When I attempt to call her by her first name it feels oddly painful and I feel like I'm losing something. I don't quite understand why.

We've known each other for over 5 years and she's cared for me in a way no one else has (non romantically).

Why does calling her by her first name make me feel such a sense of loss?

She says she's been waiting for me to call her by her first name for years.

Any ideas would be greatly helpful.

[HazelGirl]

Maybe talking to another therapist might help? I'm not sure why it's hard for you.

[Soccer mom]

Deep down are you avoiding losing her as a T. by being friends with her? Are you afraid if you call her by her first name you are confirming she is no longer your T?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Maybe it's just how you know her. My Pdoc called me once before and said hi this is (first name). I was trying to figure out who she was because I didn't know anyone by that name. My T signed a hand-written letter to me Dr. X. That bothers me too. I don't know her as Dr. Or when I've seen teachers from my past, they are still Mr., Mrs., or Dr. so-and-so. My mom was a preschool teacher. When past parents run into her now, she is still Mrs. (first name). I think the way we address people is extremely important to us. That's just my opinion.

[JustShakey]

I don't know how I feel about therapists becoming friends. It's a hard one. I can totally understand why you would be feeling loss at the name change. It's more than just about the name. It's a whole role change - while she's Dr. T she's your T who cares for you and always puts your needs first, but as your friend, 'Firstname', she is just that, a friend, a person who cares about you, but who has her own needs to take care of first, and whose needs you must respect.

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Originally Posted by Soccer mom

Deep down are you avoiding losing her as a T. by being friends with her? Are you afraid if you call her by her first name you are confirming she is no longer your T?

I think this might be it. I definitely feel like I'm losing her as my trusted therapist when I say her name. Even when we IM or email I refer to her by her professional title because it confirms for me that she is still that in some way, I think.

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

Maybe it's just how you know her. My Pdoc called me once before and said hi this is (first name). I was trying to figure out who she was because I didn't know anyone by that name. My T signed a hand-written letter to me Dr. X. That bothers me too. I don't know her as Dr. Or when I've seen teachers from my past, they are still Mr., Mrs., or Dr. so-and-so. My mom was a preschool teacher. When past parents run into her now, she is still Mrs. (first name). I think the way we address people is extremely important to us. That's just my opinion.

You have a point. I refer to old teachers I remain in touch with as Mr. it Mrs. X despite them requesting that I call them by their first names. I don't know them as Sam or Mary though; I know them as a former pupil. You're right, how we refer to people is very important. I talk to one former teacher all the time and I've never called him by his first name in 15+ years.

Originally Posted by JustShakey

I don't know how I feel about therapists becoming friends. It's a hard one. I can totally understand why you would be feeling loss at the name change. It's more than just about the name. It's a whole role change - while she's Dr. T she's your T who cares for you and always puts your needs first, but as your friend, 'Firstname', she is just that, a friend, a person who cares about you, but who has her own needs to take care of first, and whose needs you must respect.

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This resonated with me a lot! I do very much miss her in the therapist capacity because the rules were clear then. She has stated that she tries to maintain that structure for me by always being available and letting our relationship center on advising me and helping me grow but now I lose time to clients and family that I'd have if I were still a client. I don't contact her very often but when I do I'm now in line sort of despite her getting back to me quickly to acknowledge receipt of my message to her. If there is an emergency she will immediately talk with me. Still I feel odd because we never talk about her...I feel like an emotional mooch. She says I'm not and that she felt like I needed someone for me after she saw firsthand how I cared for my parents. She says she gets to see me do well and that's the payoff.

I find myself wanting to ask her if we can return to client therapist relationship at times. I miss the structure. I don't understand things as well now.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by rouge198

This resonated with me a lot! I do very much miss her in the therapist capacity because the rules were clear then. She has stated that she tries to maintain that structure for me by always being available and letting our relationship center on advising me and helping me grow but now I lose time to clients and family that I'd have if I were still a client. I don't contact her very often but when I do I'm now in line sort of despite her getting back to me quickly to acknowledge receipt of my message to her. If there is an emergency she will immediately talk with me. Still I feel odd because we never talk about her...I feel like an emotional mooch. She says I'm not and that she felt like I needed someone for me after she saw firsthand how I cared for my parents. She says she gets to see me do well and that's the payoff.

I find myself wanting to ask her if we can return to client therapist relationship at times. I miss the structure. I don't understand things as well now.

I think your instincts are correct: because what you describe isn't a friendship--it's a therapy relationship without the structure or content of therapy. Seems to me like a bit of the worst of both worlds--not therapy, not friendship. How could you not feel loss under the cirumstances?

Is this the T who was giving you gifts all the time?

[JustShakey]

I agree with FKM, this doesn't sound very much like a friendship at all.

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Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I think your instincts are correct: because what you describe isn't a friendship--it's a therapy relationship without the structure or content of therapy. Seems to me like a bit of the worst of both worlds--not therapy, not friendship. How could you not feel loss under the cirumstances?

Is this the T who was giving you gifts all the time?

Yeah that's essentially what it is. She has given me gifts in the past. I actually have never had a therapist who hasn't, come to think of it. One gave me flowers for my college graduation, another a book of poems for our last session and the ex therapist mentioned in this thread has given me a few things - but only on special occasions like my graduation, move to a new city and Christmas (after official termination). I don't think the gifts cross any lines because they've usually come at termination or not throughout the therapeutic relationship but rather at its end.

I think we call it a friendship knowing it's not. Though we have recently played with labels like mentor, life coach, auntie and big sister (we are both young and close in age). I know she genuinely loves me and she says as much but I think that I can't call her by her name may have something to do with me truly missing the therapeutic relationship. At this point we can't have that though. I do know quite a bit about her personally. She doesn't tell me her problems often but she shares what's relevant to whatever I'm going through. Like she's shared things about her marriage when I've had trouble in my relationship. I've always appreciated that about her. I never felt alone or like my diagnosis was damming because she shared her own stuff with me. Honestly until her I had never had a solidly healthy relationship with a human and I miss learning about how to do that through therapy. I wanted to duplicate the work we did IRL and I feel like the friendship prevented that.

[ScarletPimpernel]

The problem with that is therapeutic relationships don't exist irl.

Therapeutic relationships are often emotionally intimate. Yes, friendships and romantic relationships can be emotionally intimate too, but not usually where you "bare your soul".

Plus in a therapeutic relationship, the other person isn't coming to you for help, support, or encouragement. You get to receive it all. Irl relationships, there is a give and take, but not in a therapeutic relationship.

Boundaries are hard to change. And normally, if a relationship goes from therapeutic to friendship, there will be even more boundaries because the T has knowledge of very personal information.

Also, it is difficult to change the dynamics of any relationship. Best friends start dating...divorced couple become friends...these relationships are possible, but are rare. Going from T to friend is possible, but difficult and rare.

[ThisWayOut]

Your thread reminds me of when I switched from being student to friend with my guidance counselor after graduating high school. It was a difficult transition and I had a lot of the same issues come up. It took a while, but we figured things out and ate still friends nearly 20 years later.
If it helps, have a conversation with her around the changing rolls. If it helps to think of her more as a mentor, then talk about that. It may just mean that the roll changes again over time. While I still call my guidance counselor my "friend", it is more like a mentor-type relationship. We hang out, we keep in contact, but I don't have the same relationship with her as I do other "friends". We sometimes get into deeper stuff, but mostly it's surface conversations and keeping things light. (Though now that I think about it, that's kinda all my friendships, I tend to be very guarded)...
Anyway, I'm rambling. Sorry. I hope you can figure things out with now-friend, ex t. It may just take more time and more figuring things out...

Originally Posted by ThisWayOut

Your thread reminds me of when I switched from being student to friend with my guidance counselor after graduating high school. It was a difficult transition and I had a lot of the same issues come up. It took a while, but we figured things out and ate still friends nearly 20 years later.
If it helps, have a conversation with her around the changing rolls. If it helps to think of her more as a mentor, then talk about that. It may just mean that the roll changes again over time. While I still call my guidance counselor my "friend", it is more like a mentor-type relationship. We hang out, we keep in contact, but I don't have the same relationship with her as I do other "friends". We sometimes get into deeper stuff, but mostly it's surface conversations and keeping things light. (Though now that I think about it, that's kinda all my friendships, I tend to be very guarded)...
Anyway, I'm rambling. Sorry. I hope you can figure things out with now-friend, ex t. It may just take more time and more figuring things out...

Thank you for your insight. Your mention of the relationship that you have with your former counselor was really a help to me because it gave me hope of resolution. My ex therapist and I talked about the nature of our relationship but I realise that maybe we will need to keep talking about it. Sounds like this was helpful to you. I will contact her about a chat this evening.

[CantExplain]

Names have power - until you break the spell by saying them.

[SnakeCharmer]

Rouge, if you enjoy the relationship and if it's healthy for both of you, I can see danger in trying to over-analyze the whole thing. Maybe you continue to call her Dr. X because for you that's her name. It's what feels normal and natural. It may be true that the friendship may not have reached a point yet of being on totally equal terms. Instead it may have morphed into something like Big Sister and Little Sister. Keeping that dynamic can have a certain comfort. Speaking as both a Big Sister and a Little Sister, I know how natural it feels to stay in that role as long as all parties feel okay about it.

I maintained a long-term friendly and professional relationship with one of my mentors for years, until he passed away. Let's call him Dr. J.B. Smith. His professional colleagues called him J.B. His close inner circle used his inelegant given name. Very few people knew his given name. In public, his inner circle also called him J.B.

He'd call me up and say, "Hi, this is Jimbob." And I'd respond, "Hi, Dr. Smith."

When he sent email or letters or other communication, he always signed it "Jimbob." When I wrote him, I always said, "Dr. Smith."

To me, his name was Dr. Smith. It felt right to me. He didn't seem to mind.

This is my theory: By using Jimbob, he was giving me admission into his inner circle, which was a small group of comrades. He was acknowledging I'd grown out of the student role and into a more mature, equal role. I called him Dr. Smith out of respect and as a way of acknowledging the reality that in many ways he was still my mentor. He had much more life experience and professional experience. We were friends. There's no doubt about that.

When I felt especially relaxed, I'd call him Dr. S. What mattered was the quality of the friendship, the reciprocity and give and take. He had strengths I didn't have and I had strengths he lacked. We didn't give each other identical things emotionally, but we both gave the same amount, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on circumstances, but it equaled out over time. We complemented each other. It worked.

If your relationship is healthy and if you're both giving as well as receiving, even if you're not giving the same things, if you enjoy each other's company, it may not matter what you call her. Just as long as you call her ... just for the sake of friendship.

I wish you the best in figuring this out.

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

Rouge, if you enjoy the relationship and if it's healthy for both of you, I can see danger in trying to over-analyze the whole thing. Maybe you continue to call her Dr. X because for you that's her name. It's what feels normal and natural. It may be true that the friendship may not have reached a point yet of being on totally equal terms. Instead it may have morphed into something like Big Sister and Little Sister. Keeping that dynamic can have a certain comfort. Speaking as both a Big Sister and a Little Sister, I know how natural it feels to stay in that role as long as all parties feel okay about it.

I maintained a long-term friendly and professional relationship with one of my mentors for years, until he passed away. Let's call him Dr. J.B. Smith. His professional colleagues called him J.B. His close inner circle used his inelegant given name. Very few people knew his given name. In public, his inner circle also called him J.B.

He'd call me up and say, "Hi, this is Jimbob." And I'd respond, "Hi, Dr. Smith."

When he sent email or letters or other communication, he always signed it "Jimbob." When I wrote him, I always said, "Dr. Smith."

To me, his name was Dr. Smith. It felt right to me. He didn't seem to mind.

This is my theory: By using Jimbob, he was giving me admission into his inner circle, which was a small group of comrades. He was acknowledging I'd grown out of the student role and into a more mature, equal role. I called him Dr. Smith out of respect and as a way of acknowledging the reality that in many ways he was still my mentor. He had much more life experience and professional experience. We were friends. There's no doubt about that.

When I felt especially relaxed, I'd call him Dr. S. What mattered was the quality of the friendship, the reciprocity and give and take. He had strengths I didn't have and I had strengths he lacked. We didn't give each other identical things emotionally, but we both gave the same amount, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on circumstances, but it equaled out over time. We complemented each other. It worked.

If your relationship is healthy and if you're both giving as well as receiving, even if you're not giving the same things, if you enjoy each other's company, it may not matter what you call her. Just as long as you call her ... just for the sake of friendship.

I wish you the best in figuring this out.

Thank you for this. What you wrote makes a lot of sense. I do enjoy our relationship and it is healthy. She is easy to talk to and never responds negatively to me sharing my feelings with her. In fact she encourages it because IRL I don't share what I feel enough with those I care about. So I think talking to her about this will be fine. I think it comes down to what you said and to the fact that the rules are now different because I was previously a client. I think that is why this is being analyzed. I mean, I acknowledge that the rules in place about this are necessary because it emotionally challenging for a client to lose the security of structured therapy. That said, I would like to keep my ex T, mentor, big sister or whatever in my life. She helped me when I could not and/or would not help myself and her intentions are pure.

We are going to meet and catch up in a few days. I'll bring all of this up with her then.

I have the same issue!

[jaynedough]

It's not exactly the same, but I worked for the woman who was my pediatrician for a year one time and 3 years another time. Never could call her by her first name. Every time I started to, I thought I was going to pass out. That being said, I rarely saw her on social occasions.

I think what Soccer Mom said about maybe it was about confirming the end of the therapeutic relationship probably has a lot of validity.

Maybe if you start calling her by her first name, after a while, it'll feel natural. Or you could start by switching from "Dr." to "Ms."

[brillskep]

You have lost the therapeutic relationship, whether or not you keep in touch as friends. It sounds like you're trying to keep the therapeutic relationship by avoiding to address her as a friend. I may or may not be right and it's important for you to find your own answer here. Personally I think this is exactly the reason why friendships after therapy are not indicated (or at least there's a long waiting period before you can do that). I think keeping in touch as something other than therapist and client can deprive a former client of the natural grieving process. My therapist and I occasionally meet as colleagues at certain events (we don't go together but we're in the same professional community so it happens) and I've come to realize that should we end therapy, while we would still meet now and then, our relationship would NOT be the same, not as close, not as deep. It would still be a loss. I hope you will find some way of helping yourself through this situation and that you will do whatever is best for you.