[Partless]

"Are we touching each other enough?" is the title of an article I found on this forum today. It's written by Ranjan Patel, PsyD, MFT. Perhaps some of you have read it but I wanted to share it here, especially because the issue of hugging and touching with therapist sometimes comes up and people feel awkward or anxious asking for a hug, but I wish anybody who wanted a friendly supportive hug from a therapist they like and trust, just go for it and receive it and enjoy it. It can feel so wonderful!

Are We Touching Each Other Enough? | Psych Central

Speaking of her own experiences as a therapist, she says, "Over 30 years, and hundreds of couples, I see that words are never good enough. Communication and problem-solving are not good enough. The happiest are those who touch each other frequently. Those couples who sit on my couch and tilt their knees toward each other, lean in with their torso, look each other in the eyes, reach out and graze the other’s knee, touch the other’s arm, tuck an errant lock of hair behind the ear, groom the other, e.g. pick lint out of the other’s hair — their attention is to each other. It may be subtle, but at some base level, they are physical with each other."

Later she says, "The parallels are astonishing: plants, us as babies, and nonhuman primates, who spend 10 to 20 percent of their day grooming each other. So primal is our need, family members touch each other to care for them, even when faced with the risk of contracting Ebola. Helene Cooper, the Pentagon correspondent for the New York Times, flew into Liberia with U.S. military troops. She reported seeing people trying hard not to touch another infected with the disease, but a woman reached out to pick up her toddler. A man fed and hydrated his mother, saying “she birthed me.”

"Here is our ultimate risk: death. And still, our own lives tucked into the background, we reach out and touch. Our largest organ, skin, is 15 percent of our body weight and 20 square feet. With more than 3,000 sensitive pressure receptors per fingertip, we are rich. For sheer concentration of touch receptors, our fingertips are second only to our lips. These receptors transmit stimuli through the medium of our network of hundreds of billions of neurons in our brain. When we kiss or touch each other, we release oxytocin, a hormone acting as a neuromodulator in the brain. It decreases inflammation, improves wound healing, distends cervix and vagina during labor, breastfeeding, sexual arousal and orgasm. It’s also associated with a decrease in blood pressure and cortisol, the stress hormone."

It's worth a read...

[touchingthestars]

Thanks for sharing that!

I happen to need hugs sometimes and then I go to my friends. I would not feel comfortable asking my therapist for one. Its not the way our relationship works. I like her a lot and she is very experienced and comes highly reccomended- but it still isn't they type. She once offered me a hug when I went through a really rough spot and I refused.

I guess it depends on the relationship you already have

[feralkittymom]

I'm glad it works for you. I think the issue, especially in therapeutic relationships, is far more complex and can't be extrapolated from the opinions about touch in other relationships as presented in the article.

[StressedMess]

I must be allergic to oxytocin, it causes some horrible side effects!

[stopdog]

I did not read anything about touching a therapist in that link.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I think the issue, especially in therapeutic relationships, is far more complex and can't be extrapolated from the opinions about touch in other relationships as presented in the article.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I did not read anything about touching a therapist in that link.

I recommend you read the article, not just the paragraphs I cited. It's a great article. My purpose for posting it is that some people think it's wrong to ask for a hug from a therapist cause they think it's sexual or weird and I'm just posting this to tell them that it's not weird to be want to be hugged and that touch is healing and a positive experience for many people, even animals and plants. However, this is about people who want to be hugged, not people who don't, and if you're one of those people, you certainly you won't ask for a hug nor have to accept a hug from anybody, including a therapist.

[stopdog]

I did read the whole article. I get that humans need touch. I just do not believe the article relates to touch from a therapist.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I did read the whole article. I get that humans need touch. I just do not believe the article relates to touch from a therapist.

Well, the article is written by a therapist who talks about importance of touch in many different relationships, professional and non-professional, like in this paragraph, mentioning teachers, doctors, etc.

"Sociology studies have shown that touch has positive outcomes in many ways. If teachers place a supportive hand on their shoulders, students tend to participate more in class. Waitresses get higher tips if they touch customers. If doctors touch their patients during a routine office visit, they get higher ratings...."

But if you mean specifically a study done on therapists touching or hugging patients or vice versa, then yes, doesn't mention it.

[feralkittymom]

I also read the entire article. It doesn't need to refer to T/client studies specifically because touching within therapy is not its focus. There are psychological issues which arise in the T/client relationship that are unique to that relationship, such that the examples of touch and its effects in other relationships cannot speak to touch within therapy (assuming body work is not the modality). Ideally, clients would be honest about their feelings, including those about wanting touch from the therapist; but to say that those who want a hug should just get one and enjoy it is to ignore the psychological complexity of touch within this relationship--something no credible T would do. Many clients express hesitation about asking because they are aware of the complexities; it isn't simply a matter of "relax and go for it."

[Partless]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I also read the entire article. It doesn't need to refer to T/client studies specifically because touching within therapy is not its focus. There are psychological issues which arise in the T/client relationship that are unique to that relationship, such that the examples of touch and its effects in other relationships cannot speak to touch within therapy (assuming body work is not the modality). Ideally, clients would be honest about their feelings, including those about wanting touch from the therapist; but to say that those who want a hug should just get one and enjoy it is to ignore the psychological complexity of touch within this relationship--something no credible T would do. Many clients express hesitation about asking because they are aware of the complexities; it isn't simply a matter of "relax and go for it."

I think you are unnecessarily complicating the issue for some reason that's not clear to me. So I have to explain myself yet again. Needless to say, we can disagree and it's fine by me. But make sure you're disagreeing with what I'm saying, not what you think I'm saying:

I did not say therapist and client go on a date! I said a nonsexual hug, and for people who are afraid to ask for a hug because they think it's weird to ask for it or is wrong. I did not say people have to get a hug if they ask for a hug. And some therapists have rigid boundaries so touch is always out of question anyways. Or sometimes therapists who do usually do hug people might not do so if they feel the client is using hugs as a way to not deal with some other issue, which they need to work through, or if they're in the middle of some sensitive work and hug might be triggering or something. All I'm doing with this thread is trying to validate a natural need most people (dare I say all) have. It's normal, it's acceptable, and asking for a hug is acceptable in therapy (you may not receive it and for good reason) and if you do receive it, it often feels wonderful. So in short, asking for hug from therapist is not wrong.

[moonlitsky]

I agree with the article. But it isn't about touch in the therapeutic relationship. As a therapist I do use touch but rarely. It needs to be used with great care and must be realised that it can be a minefield. A therapist needs to really understand what might be created by touching their clients, and be prepared to work with that. Just because it has been helpful for one, doesn't mean it is for another. Many therapists have no understanding of what it can trigger, especially in terms of erotic responses. It can cause very painful fantasies for the client that are very hard to manage. The therapeutic relationship amplifies feelings; so what might be a normal comfortable hug 'out there' can be much more loaded in the therapy room. We have to realise it is potentially harmful as well as helpful.

Moon

[Depletion]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I also read the entire article. It doesn't need to refer to T/client studies specifically because touching within therapy is not its focus. There are psychological issues which arise in the T/client relationship that are unique to that relationship, such that the examples of touch and its effects in other relationships cannot speak to touch within therapy (assuming body work is not the modality). Ideally, clients would be honest about their feelings, including those about wanting touch from the therapist; but to say that those who want a hug should just get one and enjoy it is to ignore the psychological complexity of touch within this relationship--something no credible T would do. Many clients express hesitation about asking because they are aware of the complexities; it isn't simply a matter of "relax and go for it."

I agree. I want very much to be touched in therapy. There is a big part of me that feels that I would find this so healing, but I'm also very triggered by touch and it can deeply intensify feelings of obsession. I was once touched in a very tender way by a professor. She rubbed my back, and my neck, and my shoulders, and she even touched my hair. The sensation was intensely intimate for me, and I think that her intentions were maternal, but I was also very sexually attracted to her, and already somewhat obsessed with her. This touching only made the obsession more intense. And my mind started to want to believe that a more intimate connection was possible with her than reality could permit. She probably had no idea that touching me like that could bring up so many feelings and so many primal desires. But I feel in hindsight that she should have been more strict about her boundaries. If she cared about me so much I wish that she just could have said so. The touch for me was very confusing and activated a kind of longing that is very painful and difficult for me.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by StressedMess

I must be allergic to oxytocin, it causes some horrible side effects!

lol

Originally Posted by Depletion

I agree. I want very much to be touched in therapy. There is a big part of me that feels that I would find this so healing, but I'm also very triggered by touch and it can deeply intensify feelings of obsession. I was once touched in a very tender way by a professor. She rubbed my back, and my neck, and my shoulders, and she even touched my hair....

But that's more intimate and potentially erotic than a momentary hug. I'm not surprised by your reactions.

I think there are different ways you can make people feel that you care for them, that they matter, that they are lovable, that they're not horrible, ugly, unlovable, etc. Sometimes words are not enough. Sometimes contact and touch is the main way a person feels those things, the truth of those words. Of course, touch can be as deceiving too, but nevertheless, some people find that touch is how they truly feel supported and cared for. This urge can become intensified at times during therapy, and I've experienced it too.

I think it's quite sad if somebody feels the urge but stops themselves from voicing it because they think it's wrong or inappropriate. Or if a therapist refuses to hug someone only because their orientation is against touching patients or for other self-serving reasons (if they were accused of harassment before so have decided never to touch a client). A lot of different things can trigger clients, like touch but could also be words. A good therapist knows when it's safe to say loving and caring words, or to hug the client, or to be more strict and distant with their words and body language because of potential misinterpretation or trigger. A therapist who refuses hugs for no convincing reason, is probably expressing her own discomfort with closeness or her incompetence or inability to read the client.

But I think there is another reason for it too, and I like to focuse on another part of the article, which mentions cultural differences, which I think are very important too. She says, "In a famed study, a researcher studied how many times friends touched each other while sitting at a cafe. He collected data around the world. In Mexico City, couples touched each other 185 times. In Paris, 115 times. In London, 0 times. In Gainesville, Fla., twice. We are not a touch-oriented culture. For all our obsession with sex, in contrast to other cultures, Americans are sadly physically starved." I think it makes sense to assume that American therapists would be less likely to give hugs than therapists in some other countries.

But I still think it's totally acceptable to want it or to ask a therapist about it. Maybe once the therapist realizes this is how the person feels cared for and supported, they will hug the client. Or if they think it's inappropriate, give reasons. Either way, if you can't express yourself in therapy, where else can you, right?

[Depletion]

Originally Posted by Partless

lol

But that's more intimate and potentially erotic than a momentary hug. I'm not surprised by your reactions.

I think there are different ways you can make people feel that you care for them, that they matter, that they are lovable, that they're not horrible, ugly, unlovable, etc. Sometimes words are not enough. Sometimes contact and touch is the main way a person feels those things, the truth of those words. Of course, touch can be as deceiving too, but nevertheless, some people find that touch is how they truly feel supported and cared for. This urge can become intensified at times during therapy, and I've experienced it too.

I think it's quite sad if somebody feels the urge but stops themselves from voicing it because they think it's wrong or inappropriate. Or if a therapist refuses to hug someone only because their orientation is against touching patients or for other self-serving reasons (if they were accused of harassment before so have decided never to touch a client). A lot of different things can trigger clients, like touch but could also be words. A good therapist knows when it's safe to say loving and caring words, or to hug the client, or to be more strict and distant with their words and body language because of potential misinterpretation or trigger. A therapist who refuses hugs for no convincing reason, is probably expressing her own discomfort with closeness or her incompetence or inability to read the client.

But I think there is another reason for it too, and I like to focuse on another part of the article, which mentions cultural differences, which I think are very important too. She says, "In a famed study, a researcher studied how many times friends touched each other while sitting at a cafe. He collected data around the world. In Mexico City, couples touched each other 185 times. In Paris, 115 times. In London, 0 times. In Gainesville, Fla., twice. We are not a touch-oriented culture. For all our obsession with sex, in contrast to other cultures, Americans are sadly physically starved." I think it makes sense to assume that American therapists would be less likely to give hugs than therapists in some other countries.

But I still think it's totally acceptable to want it or to ask a therapist about it. Maybe once the therapist realizes this is how the person feels cared for and supported, they will hug the client. Or if they think it's inappropriate, give reasons. Either way, if you can't express yourself in therapy, where else can you, right?

But I think that a hug in therapy would just bring those memories back for me, or cause me to have a similar reaction to my T. But don't get me wrong. I think this is a touch phobic culture. I wish that I could cuddle with friends, or hold their hands when ever it suited us, but I also feel like those are situations where I'm more willing to navigate sexual confusion, and the stakes aren't as high if something gets misinterpreted. But for me the potential risks of touch in therapy are too high for me to want to tango with them. I told my T that I didn't want her to hug me when we first met, and as much as I wish I could, I really don't want to re-neg on that decision.

She also knows that touch is important to me so she suggested early in the therapy that I bring a soft blanket to therapy. This blanket is supposed to be a reminder of her care for me. I use the blanket at home when I am upset, or I want to remember that she is there for me. I find that this is a good and safe compromise for me. I know that the blanket can't do all the fancy neurochemical things that letting her hug me would, but I do feel safe and close to her when I'm under it.

That being said I think that you are right that people shouldn't have to fear if asking for touch in therapy is inappropriate, but I don't think that people should have a right to it just because they want it. Touch could also create erotic countertransference for a therapist, and their decision to not touch the client could be about keeping the client safe by not escalating the countertransference. So I think that it is about more than the T having some issue with closeness if they refuse to hug a client. I guess the important thing for the client to understand is that if they ask the T might say no for a whole host of reasons and not all of those reasons have to do with the client.

I couldn't finish the article. It was very upsetting for me. But that's ok, because I am not the target audience.

[StressedMess]

Don't take this the wrong way, nothing subversive happened I find now I am paying strangers to touch me. Hair appointments, manicures and pedicures, massage therapy, these are the only times I get touched by someone I did not give birth to.

Weird!

Being single and not interested in remedying that any time soon, being on medication, or just being extra careful and guarded around this behavior, I'm not sure when this started.

I equate this longing for touch and resulting oxytocin-fueled euphoria with any other addiction, wherein I don't care how I'm brought low or what cesspool I have to wade through as long as I keep getting my fix.

In my past I was paralyzed by my need to be coupled-up, to the detriment of my children's and my well-being. I was unable to put a stop to severe abuse and liberate myself from these men because I was addicted to all the feelings, both good and bad.

I've decided (probably unwisely) that abstinence is my only hope. For the foreseeable future I have to avoid coming too close to others, for fear of becoming "addicted" again and throwing all this therapy-work out the window. Once I've worked through the why's, I might be a better prospect but for now, I feel safest remaining a teetotaler.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by Depletion

She also knows that touch is important to me so she suggested early in the therapy that I bring a soft blanket to therapy. This blanket is supposed to be a reminder of her care for me. I use the blanket at home when I am upset, or I want to remember that she is there for me. I find that this is a good and safe compromise for me. I know that the blanket can't do all the fancy neurochemical things that letting her hug me would, but I do feel safe and close to her when I'm under it.

I agree with your response but this part in particular, I think it's wonderful suggestion by your T and just reading this I already feel a kind of cozy feeling, imagining myself doing the same, with a soft warm blanket. And in fact, the article also mentions, "Touch doesn’t necessarily have to be from a person. In a Cambridge study, if heating was kept a constant, premature babies were placed on a lambswool blanket for a day. They gained approximately half an ounce more than usual." So perhaps it does have some similar effects in the body, with some of those good chemicals produced all the same.

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I couldn't finish the article. It was very upsetting for me. But that's ok, because I am not the target audience.

Oh I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah obviously not everybody reacts well to being touched, and some people who did like being touched also may no longer want to, because of bad traumatic experiences. In any event, I think the article spoke to me in a way other articles on this site usually don't, so that's why I've been passionate about it. But I've read a couple of people's responses so far who either don't identify with the message or find the idea of hugging or touch more harmful and dangerous than helpful.

StressedMess - I find that massages are very good for that purpose. Hair cutting less so because I'm supposed to be chatty with the hairdresser, which raises anxiety. Nail appointments are not something I'd contemplate but I suspect it is a lot like hair appointments in that respect. But massages are good.

Partless - I don't dislike touch in general nor do I react badly to it as a general rule. But you are right, many people do. In any case, it is always good to find articles that resonate with us, and it's good that you find this useful.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

Partless - I don't dislike touch in general nor do I react badly to it as a general rule. But you are right, many people do. In any case, it is always good to find articles that resonate with us, and it's good that you find this useful.

Oh I understand, that was just my way of trying to sympathize with a negative reaction to the article without asking you what it was you found so upsetting about it (I assumed you may not want to share).

[feralkittymom]

"But I think there is another reason for it too, and I like to focuse on another part of the article, which mentions cultural differences, which I think are very important too. She says, "In a famed study, a researcher studied how many times friends touched each other while sitting at a cafe. He collected data around the world. In Mexico City, couples touched each other 185 times. In Paris, 115 times. In London, 0 times. In Gainesville, Fla., twice. We are not a touch-oriented culture. For all our obsession with sex, in contrast to other cultures, Americans are sadly physically starved." I think it makes sense to assume that American therapists would be less likely to give hugs than therapists in some other countries. "

Yes, touch, like all social behaviors, is culturally dependent. But, again, it is not appropriate to extrapolate this social circumstance to therapy. In fact, therapists in Western European and Asian countries (the only areas I'm familiar with), and I suspect Nordic countries (Mast???) do not touch more than American therapists, and it appears that they touch far less. Many European therapists even refer to their clients as Mr X or Mrs X, rather than by first names.

This, in a nutshell, is why I dislike PC articles, as they are written for a general audience and play very loosely with statistics, research,, and often imply correlations without any basis for doing so. In the same way,, it's inappropriate to draw conclusions about anyone's past or present experience or attitudes about touch outside of therapy based upon a desire or lack thereof for touch within therapy. It's simply apples and oranges.

Perhaps gender also plays a role here in why this article resonates for you, as women statistically have more life experiences with unwanted or proprietary touch than men. Whereas men in American society have fewer opportunities for non-sexual, nurturing touch than women. American society will tolerate two women walking arm in arm without making sexual orientation assumptions; it will not respond so for men. So perhaps therapy appears for you to be a place in which those nurturing touch needs can be fulfilled without complication. The differences in our opinions is that you seem to see it as low/no risk psychologically, whereas I see it, as do therapists, as a far more complex interaction.

[MrPink182]

I loved the article. I am a person who loves to hug and be physical (with no intention of sex). It just gives me that warm and cared for feeling ya know?

[StressedMess]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

StressedMess - I find that massages are very good for that purpose. Hair cutting less so because I'm supposed to be chatty with the hairdresser, which raises anxiety. Nail appointments are not something I'd contemplate but I suspect it is a lot like hair appointments in that respect. But massages are good.

Partless - I don't dislike touch in general nor do I react badly to it as a general rule. But you are right, many people do. In any case, it is always good to find articles that resonate with us, and it's good that you find this useful.

Oh manicures and pedicures are fantastic and relaxing with whirlpool foot soaks and foot/leg and hand/arm massage. Hair appointments as well, the feeling of someone "playing" with my hair has always relaxed me. I'm not chatty in general, so I'm pretty mute and uncomfortable during the visit, but it is tolerable once in a while.

Mostly I cuddle my kids and my pets, freely and without reservation. It's just a personal touch for myself that I find lacking. My six year old's version of a back-scratch is one swipe down the spine and then oh, look, a butterfly!!

[Partless]

feralkittymom, no, that's not it at all, but I guess you're intent on misreading both the article and the intention of my posts in this thread and in the last post also try to draw personal conclusions as to why I find the article useful (again, not true). Perhaps the article has triggered you, I don't know, but in any event I won't respond further because it hasn't accomplished clarity or better understanding of my position so far.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by Partless

feralkittymom, no, that's not it at all, but I guess you're intent on misreading both the article and the intention of my posts in this thread and in the last post also try to draw personal conclusions as to why I find the article useful (again, not true). Perhaps the article has triggered you, I don't know, but in any event I won't respond further because it hasn't accomplished clarity or better understanding of my position so far.

No, I'm far from triggered. It's just not a problem I have. You might want to read some psych theory about touch in therapy and why it's a unique situation, and maybe that would make the issue clearer for you. The points I've made are not uniquely my opinion, nor personalized, but reflect widely written about perspectives.