[angelicgoldfish05]

So it has almost been a year since I last heard from my former therapist. To recap, he saw me as a teen, we kept in touch here and there over the years, then I got back in touch with him two and a half years ago. I intensely attached to him after reconnecting and I think it scared him or he did not know how to respond. He stopped communicating completely with me almost a year ago. He did not say why, he simply quit replying to my emails. I reached out to him in every way I could - email, letters, phone messages, and I even set up an online journal that he could access when/if he wanted because I felt bad about emailing him so much.

In November, my emails and letters tapered off a bit, and I really began losing hope that I would ever hear from him again. I feel empty and low, and my depression did not lessen any. As I was also getting further, I stopped taking my antidepressants saying I would save $50 a month. It was also a decision I made during a brief period of feeling fine (I am bipolar so my ups and downs are cyclical) and I told myself I was all better and be fine, plus I would save money.

Then, after two weeks of being off antidepressants, my cycle hit a new level suicidal depressive low, and I acted on it. In an act of pure desperation, intense psychological pain, and hopelessness, I called his workplace several times trying to reach him. I left him several messages and also tried his home number. When I could not reach him, I made the attempt, left him a final message letting him know I did so, and then ended up in the ER. I went to a behavioral hospital for a week after the ER and got a new perspective on life again. This was my second attempt, the first being when I was a teen and that is when I first met him.

I have not talked to him since leaving him the messages and attempting suicide. While I was in the behavioral hospital, I wrote him some and painted and colored pictures for him. Now I'm wanting to frame the pictures for his office, and go and give him both the pictures and what I wrote to him. I have not talked to him in so long, and it has been even longer since I've seen him. I also want to see him in person and let him know I'm okay, since my last communication with him was a message on his work phone letting him know I was overdosing. Finally, I want to see him and apologize to him - for my neediness and contacting him so much, and also for trying to hurt him as well as end my psychological pain by trying to end my life.

What do you think, can I go see him? I guess I need to prepare myself psychologically for him to reject me, but I want to try. I can always leave the pictures and the letter with the receptionist at his work. I think it's probably a bad idea to just show up at his work without an appointment, but I have not been able to reach him at work in the past. Maybe I should try to talk to the receptionist on the phone first to find a time when he won't be with other patients. But what if he won't see me? It will kill me. It almost did.

I know this is beyond ridiculous to have all these feelings towards someone who has clearly moved on and won't reply to my cries for his help, but I don't know how to move forward without him. He has meant so much to me, and has even been a bigger presence in why I would still want to live than my parents. I know that is messed up, and I almost love him more than my own parents and I don't even know why. I think it is the way he had given me such an acceptance and love, as well as him and his presence, and feelings of being safe/secure and with someone safe. I have just craved this since we last got together but now I am left with a gaping hole and such a feeling of emptiness. I have not been able to find anything to replace him with or anything to fill that hole and that gaping need with. I am seeing a new T tomorrow (the last one helped a little but I stopped seeing him), and I will surely talk about this with her because we will probably discuss why I ended up in the hospital and trying to end my own life. But should I try and see my former T tomorrow? He is close by to where new T is and I want to get him the pictures and letter and try and let him know I'm okay and apologize in person. It would be so good to see him again. What do you think, what would you do?

p.s. Sorry this is so long, I have a lot on my mind and a lot that has recently happened... Hope you guys are doing okay, it has been awhile...hugs to you (safe hugs of course)

[jelly-bean]

I think he has made it very clear that he does not want to see you any more. If I were you I would just continue to see the new T (you might want to discuss this problem with him/her) and let him become a pleasant memory. It won't be easy for a while but it will be better for you.

[angelicgoldfish05]

I do plan on discussing this with new T because we will have to discuss why I tried to end my life and ended up in the hospital. As for the memory of him, I do not know if I would describe it as pleasant. It seems many people have the advice of "just give it time," well it has almost been a year and time did not work. The feelings did not get any better, they got more intense to a point of me wanting to end my life to end the pain. How and why could he have cared for me at one point and now does not? I don't understand that about human nature - one day I love you, the next, I do not and you could die and I would not even care at all. Sure breaks my heart (over and over and over again).

Your question is if you should try to see this therapist who has not responded to your many messages at his office and home? I don't see any benefit for you in doing that. It's clear that you're in tremendous pain. I hope your new therapist can help you through it and you can move on.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by licketysplit

Your question is if you should try to see this therapist who has not responded to your many messages at his office and home? I don't see any benefit for you in doing that. It's clear that you're in tremendous pain. I hope your new therapist can help you through it and you can move on.

No I would not go to his home, just don't want to give up on trying to see him again. Maybe I should just leave the pictures and letter with the receptionist at his work? I want to get these to him and let him know I am seeing a new T and I am okay. It would be great to get some closure but it is probably never going to happen. So I guess I just leave it with the receptionist. Also as a final thing I will do this year and hopefully ever, I got him a Christmas present that I was going to mail to his house with a card. I know, I am crazy, but that's why therapy exists - for crazies like me. I'm sure it all ties back to some attachment errors in childhood, or something.

[Asiablue]

I'm sorry you're in such pain over this. I understand how badly it hurts when a therapy relationship breaks down. You won't like the advice I'm about to give, but honestly, I think you need leave your ex-T alone now. He has communicated very clearly he isn't going to speak to you. And given the lengths you've gone to keep in contact with him despite no encouragement from him at all, I think he's doing you a favour in a way. He isn't the therapist for you and going back to him probably wouldn't help you in the long run, and hopefully this next therapist will be able to support you through the grief you're feeling.

I'm sorry this happened though, it's very painful indeed.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I'm sorry you're in such pain over this. I understand how badly it hurts when a therapy relationship breaks down. You won't like the advice I'm about to give, but honestly, I think you need leave your ex-T alone now. He has communicated very clearly he isn't going to speak to you. And given the lengths you've gone to keep in contact with him despite no encouragement from him at all, I think he's doing you a favour in a way. He isn't the therapist for you and going back to him probably wouldn't help you in the long run, and hopefully this next therapist will be able to support you through the grief you're feeling.

I'm sorry this happened though, it's very painful indeed.

Thanks Asia, I appreciate your reply and your honesty about what you would do or thoughts about what I could do. I just wanted to clarify that I do not have hopes to see him as a therapist again. I realize his limitations in helping me as a therapist. I also realize he cannot be a friend, so that really does not leave much (I was hoping for mentor/coach as I wanted to pursue social work as a career and field of study at one point, and I did communicate this to him at one point... Trouble is I also communicated a bunch of other things) -- but you are right, he has not gotten back in touch with me. And has not encouraged me any and the feelings did not diminish anyways. It is painful, but he probably is doing me a favor I guess. It just sucks I almost lost my life over it. Guess it really does help to hear it over and over again - move on, don't contact him again, let it go, etc. etc. Although I still will never understand how a person can care at one point and then just not. I will work on this with new T though. However, that's placing a lot of hope in new T already, and I will probably just get hurt all over again because of it. Maybe I should not hope for much at all and then I can be pleasantly surprised if it turns out well.

[precaryous]

Angel, I'm sorry you are feeling hurt. I had a previous PDoc who I saw for a few years. We left it on good terms, I thought. I moved many states away and retuned for a visit. I decided to stop by his office just to say, "Hi"- no appointment or anything. Not only did he refuse to see me, he ignored me when he came to the waiting room to get his next patient. Not a nod, not a smile...not anything. I didn't expect an appointment..I just was gonna say things were going ok. I felt so hurt...I just about crumpled in the waiting room.

Please don't do that to yourself.....

Been there,
Pre

[NowhereUSA]

I'm going to echo everyone else. I wouldn't leave him any gifts. I wouldn't contact him at all. I would put the things I'd made in the back of the closet or in a shoebox and let them live there until I'd worked through the emotions.

I don't think you're crazy... I don't know your life story but I know from my own childhood that I would form intense attachments to people. I can imagine having formed an attachment that deeply to a T. Unfortunately then I learned to wall myself off and now I struggle with letting myself get attached. So there are different ends of the spectrum.

Emotion mind is telling you to send the stuff! Rational mind says not to. I think wise mind is accepting these emotions as they are, don't try to stuff them down, but experience them and yet don't act on them. Ride the wave of the urge to contact him and let your new T help you work forward.

[Asiablue]

I think when a therapy relationship breaks down, there's a lot of factors at hand, I don't think it's a simple as him caring one minute and not the next. If he genuinely cared for you, then that doesn't just die. In fact he probably believes rightly or wrongly that by discouraging any contact from you or him, he is being caring. He believes he's doing the right thing by you.
Like I said, I think you need to respect his clear wishes to cut contact. I don't think sending him anything, presents or letters etc is going to make an iota of difference in fact it might be making things worse. I know you don't have closure, and that makes it so hard and it's so unfair. But that's the situation. Now you need to concentrate on yourself. Get the healing you need from someone who wants to commit to you.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Well you guys have just about talked me out of it thanks. I guess the best thing is like you said - Pre: not to do that to myself (with the waiting room example, sorry to hear that happened with you btw) and Nowhere: I like your idea of putting the things in the closet until I work through the emotions (and thanks for the DBT example!).
I guess it is appropriate that the last he heard from me, I really could have died. So it could feel like closure because of that (in a way it could be like I died and then the relationship is definitely over). Anyways, I guess he has probably no desire to no how I am doing or he would have/could have asked. At the very least, I guess he has not seen my obituary in the paper by now, and I like to imagine that he cares and is perhaps glad I did not die. But he probably did not even realize I was actually OD'ing at the time of contacting him the last time I did. Maybe he did not even believe me that I was doing that, who knows.
Asia: thanks for saying that you don't think it could just go away if you care about someone, and that he probably thinks he is acting in my best interest and being caring. Thanks also for saying that you don't think it would do any good.

I don't know why I want to give him the things. I guess I just get an idea in my head and want to act on it (like nowhere said, because of the emotions). But in this case, the reward for me in giving him things does not pay off and I just end up feeling hurt. So maybe it is like a form of self harm. I know I give him things (or want to) because I have feelings of love towards him and want him to love and care for me. But he never will. So it is just harmful to myself to keep doing it. So just put the things away in a box? Maybe I should do that I don't know.

Thanks for your replies and your time in helping me through this tough time in life.

[Lauliza]

Please don't go to see him. Like everyone's said, he's been very clear that he does not want any contact. If you show up at his office, I hate to say it but he probably will be uncomfortable. It's not a situation you want to be in.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

Please don't go to see him. Like everyone's said, he's been very clear that he does not want any contact. If you show up at his office, I hate to say it but he probably will be uncomfortable. It's not a situation you want to be in.

He will be uncomfortable? I almost killed myself. I will put his needs for comfort first though. That makes sense. It is in his best interest and I will do that because I love him. Well, I hate him for leaving me, but I love him as a human and a person.

[eskielover]

Although I still will never understand how a person can care at one point and then just not.

You are confusing caring on a professional level verses caring for someone on an emotional level. Md's care for their patients well being just as T's do....but they don't care for the person on a deeper emotional level. They care how the person is doing as that is their professional JOB.

I was very suicidal & made many attempts because I was trapped in a bad marriage & the situation that my life was in at the time....I wanted out of. No one understood that at the time & they all thought I was just reacting to loosing my career & my identity.... & that's all I really understood at the time also....but now that I am out of that bad marriage situation & no longer trapped, I am able to look back at what was really going on at the time of my many suicide attempts.....but my pdoc had stated that one more attempt & he would no longer see me. I think he thought I might be using the attempts as a manipulative thing & wasn't going to continue being a part of that. I wanted to die & I actually came close that time at being the final attempt....but I survived & he refused to continue treating me.

It was actually the best thing but it didn't seem like it at the time because I really liked him as a pdoc....but I also didn't like being treated as a guinea pig either on top of everything else that was going on. It took me over a year to find another pdoc....& I ended up finding the one that I ended up with after another suicide attempt & he was assigned to me in the hospital. I didn't like the new one at first because it seemed that he wasn't listening to what I had to say.....so I requested to have another pdoc assigned but the staff urged me to communicate my concerns with him.....& he became a really helpful pdoc because I always had horrible side effects from meds & he was very knowledgeable on meds & was willing to work with me & even try other natural treatments since most medications really messed me up worse than any help they were supposed to provide.

I lived for 13 years in that bad marriage & the situation I was in before finally leaving the marriage & moving 2100 miles away.....Found a wonderful new psychologist with the move & a wonderful DBT group & just being free from being trapped in the bad marriage has made all the difference.

There are times when I would like to send an email back to the pdoc who quit treating me & let him know exactly what was going on at the time....just to give him the insight that none of us had at that time......doubt that with all the patients he's had that he would even remember me.....but I would never consider that he actually cared about in in any way other than professional & he felt at the time he had no way of offering me any level of care that would help my condition as extreme as it had become. In the few years that I was seeing him I had gone from anxiety to major depression add in anorexic & suicidal.....I had gotten worse under his care & not better so I'm sure he felt that it was obvious that there wasn't any other help that he could offer that would truly be of any help for me.....& in many ways that did show a level of professional caring.....& that is all that we can expect out of the professionals that we interface with because they are NOT FRIENDS & it's inappropriate on our part to expect them to have the emotional caring that a friend would have.

[SoupDragon]

Has anyone ever seen The Bears and I?

It was a film about some orphaned young bears who formed a strong attachment / dependency on this man and he knew that it was not healthy for them. He then had to be unkind to them in order to get them to move on. It wasn't that he didn't care, but he could not give them the relationship they wanted with him and knew it was not in their interests, even though that was what they clearly wanted.

[Zippo]

"When it's good, it's so good,
when it's gone, it's gone."

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Zippo

"When it's good, it's so good,
when it's gone, it's gone."

Yes this is why I have the signature I do. I also think about hearing something about a God who gives and takes away...
Thanks for your reply.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Has anyone ever seen The Bears and I?

It was a film about some orphaned young bears who formed a strong attachment / dependency on this man and he knew that it was not healthy for them. He then had to be unkind to them in order to get them to move on. It wasn't that he didn't care, but he could not give them the relationship they wanted with him and knew it was not in their interests, even though that was what they clearly wanted.

Sounds like a good movie, although I wish this man knew that he could give me a relationship that would benefit me. After going to see him a handful of times - not as a therapist, more as a mentor/coach/guide (guide was the word he used), I was on a new path in life and making good choices. I gave up drinking, started running, found a career path, and was full of energy and optimism - feeling like I could achieve anything I put my mind to. I was on my way.

I only hope that someday down the road, when I have my life back together, he will somehow see that he had a part in that. If I ever got married I'd want to invite him to the wedding also, even though I still think I'd not hear back from him and he would not go. I had wondered all this past year if he would want to hear how I'm doing (this would be if he cared as opposed to caring one day and not ever again the next) even though he would not be able to reply because not replying is the caring thing to do.

Anyways, thanks for letting us know about the movie, Soup- sounds like one I should see

[lunatic soul]

Im so sorry you ar in such a pain

Your obsession is killing you. You need help.
I know if I were you I would do anything, I would go to him and shout into his face what he has done to me.
Obsession is sickness. If only there would be a way out from this.
Dont hurt yourself, go and say to him everything and when he rejects you you will see he is not that person you loved, he is not worth your love.

I hope you will be okay

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by angelicgoldfish05

He will be uncomfortable? I almost killed myself. I will put his needs for comfort first though. That makes sense. It is in his best interest and I will do that because I love him. Well, I hate him for leaving me, but I love him as a human and a person.

Sometimes there are situations where you have to think about other people first. In therapeutic relationship the needs of the client come first, but this is not a therapeutic relationship. This man is not your therapist and hasn't been for over a year. He doesn't work for you anymore so he doesn't owe you anything on that level. I understand you are really hurting and have been through a lot, but showing up at his office is not going to change that and may make it worse. I just want you to look at this situation from a more rational and less emotional point of view, as hard as it might be. I dont think you want to be accused of stalking but it's possible if your behavior continues. Don't put yourself in that situation.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by lunatic soul

Im so sorry you ar in such a pain

Your obsession is killing you. You need help.
I know if I were you I would do anything, I would go to him and shout into his face what he has done to me.
Obsession is sickness. If only there would be a way out from this.
Dont hurt yourself, go and say to him everything and when he rejects you you will see he is not that person you loved, he is not worth your love.

I hope you will be okay

It's true that the obsession was killing me. Before I obsessed over this, I had an eating disorder to obsess about. It was also killing me. So this is a problem and I hope new T can help. If I did see the former T, it would be just to visit and say hi, and give him pictures I made and a letter - not to yell at him. I know what is in my control and out of my control - and the only thing I can control is my reaction, so I would not yell at all. Thanks for your reply, lunatic, although I would not go so far as to say he is not worth my love. Perhaps he does not feel he is worthy or love (we only accept the love we think we deserve), or that he does not want it, but I do not believe he is not worth it. From what I know of him, he is.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

Sometimes there are situations where you have to think about other people first. In therapeutic relationship the needs of the client come first, but this is not a therapeutic relationship. This man is not your therapist and hasn't been for over a year. He doesn't work for you anymore so he doesn't owe you anything on that level. I understand you are really hurting and have been through a lot, but showing up at his office is not going to change that and may make it worse. I just want you to look at this situation from a more rational and less emotional point of view, as hard as it might be. I dont think you want to be accused of stalking but it's possible if your behavior continues. Don't put yourself in that situation.

Thanks, Lauliza. From what I understand about boundaries (which is not much, obviously), he is responsible for letting another person know what he is and is not comfortable with. Like if I have crossed a boundary, if he truly did want me to leave him alone, he would be responsible to tell me this. If that came in the form of being charged with stalking, I would honestly be relieved, because I would know that he has placed a boundary. As it stands, silence doesn't communicate much except silence. I do not know what his wishes are concerning his boundaries, and everything I've learned in therapy and groups says that we are responsible for commincating to other parties what our boundaries are. If a telemarketer calls your house every night, you ask to be placed on their do not call list and then they don't call you again. It is truly very simple. But he has not done that.

I probably won't go to his work. It would be really unprofessional. I'll get my life in order, wait a couple years. If I don't run into him around town or hear from him, and if after a couple years my life is together and I still have not heard from him, I could send a (professional) update and of course he could choose to still not reply but that is his choice. All we have are our choices and our reactions to others' choices.

Thanks for your reply, Lauliza, it has put things into a professional context for me, and pushed my thinking.

[JaneTennison1]

He has placed a boundary, whether you see it or not. By not communicating in anyway and letting you know by email that he no longer wished to treat you he has set up a whacking great wall with a sign that says do not enter.

When you say "I wouldn't see him, I'd just drop off a letter and a picture" it sounds like an addict saying "I wouldn't get wasted, I'd just have a little bit at christmas" could you trust yourself? Wouldthe obsession end if you drop

[JaneTennison1]

Sorry my phone is being weird. If you drop stuff off and he stays silent would you be happy? He's not going to suddenly change his mind and want you as a client. I hope your new T can help you let it go and move on a bit. You deserve more

I agree with Jane here. His complete lack of response IS communicating that he is done communicating with you. You haven't formally been his client in some time from the sound of it. Your formal professional relationship was over with years ago. No response IS clearly communicating that he is no longer willing to continue any sort of discourse with you. You seem to be trying to find loopholes as a way of continuing contact when it is very obvious to the rest of us from your description that he no longer welcomes any kind of communication with you. Because you are no longer formally his client, he really isn't under any obligation to communicate with you in any way.