[Petra5ed]

Last week my t asked what I've been reading lately and I mentioned a book about C-ptsd (specifically it's called "complex ptsd: from surviving to thriving"). This book has been eye opening. My previous therapist said I had ptsd and I never believed her, in my current therapy we avoid diagnosis and labels. Somehow though I got turned onto this book, and it is so me... My mother is severely mentally ill and my father was an absent alcoholic. I'm sure some are more traumatized than me, I know that things could have been so much worse, but still I've felt so alone my whole life and like I was never loved by either parent. Anyways this was my Ts response to hearing I'm rearing the book "I suppose you were a little traumatized." I suppose in the moment I wanted to get off the topic because I hate complaining and showing emotion and weakness, it was something I would be beaten for as a child, but now I'm thinking about his comment. I don't know if he was agreeing with me, or minimizing my situation. I know I know, ask, but I can't go back and ask, I'm sure he'll agree I was traumatized but then I will feel like I forced his hand in the matter vs gaining his real opinion. I feel like those of us with not good enough parents are really really stigmatized. The fact I can't talk about my childhood without feeling deeply ashamed is almost sadder than the original trauma.

[JustShakey]

Maybe a deliberate understatement? My T used to say things like my situation was almost domestic violence or very similar to a DV situation. It was kinda like um, it is too DV. I had to say it myself though. He wouldn't say it for me.

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[unaluna]

They dont get it. Neglect and mental illness, they dont get what its like to have that as your reality.

[Middlemarcher]

So go back, ask him about this and also talk about the fact that you feel like you're forcing his hand and may not be getting his real opinion. And if you need to, keep talking and talking and talking about it. If he's a good T, that'll be ok.

I feel for you. I'm a minimizer myself, and my T was the one who first said the word "trauma." I argued and resisted that for a long time, but eventually conceded that she was clearly right. If she had minimized while I had minimized and berated myself for "complaining" and "showing weakness," I don't know how we would have gotten anywhere.

I have also been reading that ebook lately, by the way, and I find it similarly revealing.

That's really odd. Usually the client minimizes. I'm sorry he said that. Did his tone and body language seem minimizing? Did it sort of 'match' the statement?

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by mian síoraí

That's really odd. Usually the client minimizes. I'm sorry he said that. Did his tone and body language seem minimizing? Did it sort of 'match' the statement?

Honestly I couldn't tell if it was like Just Shakey said a deliberate understatement or if he was really surprised I would think I have c-ptsd. I could see either being true, sometimes I'm not sure myself if I'm just blowing it out of proportion or if it was severely traumatizing. Thinking about it though, I would say I ended up severely fed up regardless.

[Crescent Moon]

How invalidating of that therapist! I think sometimes they think that if they agree with our assessment of our trauma that we will then get stuck on victim-hood. My first therapist was like that.. and the invalidation kept me stuck I'm trying to get validation. My current therapist, however, validated the way o felt... and that set me free. I really needed to know that i wasn't crazy. Especially because abusers have good techniques about making you think you're crazy or it's you're fault.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

Last week my t asked what I've been reading lately and I mentioned a book about C-ptsd (specifically it's called "complex ptsd: from surviving to thriving"). This book has been eye opening. My previous therapist said I had ptsd and I never believed her...

... I feel like those of us with not good enough parents are really really stigmatized. The fact I can't talk about my childhood without feeling deeply ashamed is almost sadder than the original trauma.

I think you should listen to what the original t said. From all you wrote, anyone who experienced that would be traumatized. Glad to hear you recognize this enough to be reading this book. After you mentioned it in your post I downloaded it to my kindle and have loved reading to it. So thanks for mentioning it in your post. I even relate to stuff although my situation is no where near as bad as yours sounds (childhood abuse, etc.). This makes me feel ashamed of even being in therapy and taking up the therapist's time when she could be helping someone who was much more traumatized (or actually traumatized, maybe I wasn't even, I don't know). I always feel guilty cause what if I'm using up resources that someone else could use (or needs) more than me. So I really related to the last 2 sentences of your post.

Maybe you might could look at finding a new therapist who is more in line with what you need, and more attuned to who you are and what you have actually experienced.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by JustShakey

Maybe a deliberate understatement? My T used to say things like my situation was almost domestic violence or very similar to a DV situation. It was kinda like um, it is too DV. I had to say it myself though. He wouldn't say it for me.

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I agree it could be this. Maybe it is some kind of therapist trick, where they go back and forth on it, or really understate it (or overstate), just to gauge your reaction. Then they go from there with better understanding of how to work on the material with you. I don't know, just throwing things out there. I think about things way too much, to the point of over thinking.

Like my t, she goes back and forth on what happened to me being CSA or not. 1st it was CSA. Next week it was "just experimentation and bribery". Then the following week it is back to being CSA.
Maybe I just wish t's were thinking about things so in depth and catching all the little idiosyncrasies so they can eventually help a person make sense of themselves and their story. It is probably wishful thinking. I think my t is probably just forgetful and, as someone else on here pointed out, disengaged. If I were ever a t, I'd hope to be the kind that catches all those little details though, and apply them to the bigger picture of the whole person within their story.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

Honestly I couldn't tell if it was like Just Shakey said a deliberate understatement or if he was really surprised I would think I have c-ptsd. I could see either being true, sometimes I'm not sure myself if I'm just blowing it out of proportion or if it was severely traumatizing. Thinking about it though, I would say I ended up severely fed up regardless.

I personally think it depends upon one's sensitivity. The more sensitive one is, the more traumatizing events will be. I believe I was "traumatized" from watching a Steven King movie when I was really little. Gave me nightmares for months. Even to this day I do not like to watch scary movies because I am too sensitive and feel like the movie is actually happening to me. Like I can't tell the difference, like I can't separate from the movie and just watch it as an outsider. I experience. Comes with being a "total empath" (as my friend once called me and pointed out to me, maybe it is true).

It is important what you feel about it. It's okay to feel the way you do about it. Your experiences and feelings are valid, and you are seeking that outside validation. I do this too because oftentimes we did not get such validation in our childhoods about our situation and our feelings about it. I suggest you find a t who will at least work with you on this validation piece. It's very important for working through it from what I can tell. But to be honest, I haven't found this yet either. Closest I came was a class I was taking on "emotionally regulation and distress tolerance" (ie DBT) and also working with the therapist who taught the class. Well, the my mom and I are so enmeshed that she came to the class with me, and would ask me about what t and I discussed in therapy. My boundaries have always sucked- especially with mom- and so I would tell her all about what we talked about. Then she ended up telling the whole family at thanksgiving, "well [my name]'s therapist told her she needs to [do this]." I was horrified. I felt betrayed and ashamed and like I really wished I hadn't have told her. I ended up stopping going to those classes and seeing the t because I really didn't want my mom involved, but couldn't tell her. So I just stopped going. And in turn lost the closest I had ever come to getting that outside validation piece I think I need. Looking back on it, I don't even remember what it was the t told me to do that I ended up telling my mom about because she asked. All I remember is how it made me feel.

I still need to work on things that happened, and on boundaries, especially with my mom. She tries to pry - even now- into my life, and about therapy. I try to keep the wall up pretty solid. So far she will ask, "so are you still seeing your therapist," or "did you see your therapist" and I will say "yes" and not say any more. She has stopped there which is good. Cause I don't want to have to hurt her overly sensitive feelings by telling her it is not her business. My therapy is mine. She does not get to know what goes on there, or what I talk about, or every (any) detail of my life she just wants to know about. Some secrets are ok, some boundaries are ok. Privacy is at times necessary. My therapy is mine. And it is private. And it is not for her to know anything about. What she is really wondering is, "are you discussing me?" "Are you talking about me and what I did to you." The truth is, that yes of course I am talking about her, AND everything else.

It is really difficult because it's all about her. She always makes it all about her. It always has been about her.

Sorry for this big long post, didn't set out to write this. I'm really crazy like that. Easy to say my parents drive me crazy, have made me crazy. I feel I need a lot of help for how I am now. It's almost schizophrenic (does that have anything to do with trauma? Or is it just inherited?) It is very stressful and scary at times. I wish I could explain it. And I wish it would stop and go away. Maybe I just wish someone would just understand and tell me I'm not crazy. I heard that from one of my students yesterday - that the deepest human need is actually to be understood. Well I do with for that. And I wish my parents would just stop doing what they still are doing all the time to drive me crazy. It is worse sometimes more than others, but they do it all the time and sometimes I just don't notice. It is almost torture, but they haven't even done anything "traumatizing" I guess. My t asked in session, well did she draw blood? (Referring to what my mom did)... No. Well I have a scar but that's not important. That's not where the hurt and pain is. Why do t's think that you need to have blood drawn to have it traumatize you. That doesn't traumatize me, I used to cut myself and draw plenty of blood. Some traumas don't even leave a mark.

Again, sorry for the long post. Thanks for reading/listening this far if you did.

[Ididitmyway]

It definitely sounds minimizing and invalidating to me. If my T said that, I'd sure tell him about how I felt about it.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by angelicgoldfish05

I think you should listen to what the original t said. From all you wrote, anyone who experienced that would be traumatized. Glad to hear you recognize this enough to be reading this book. After you mentioned it in your post I downloaded it to my kindle and have loved reading to it. So thanks for mentioning it in your post. I even relate to stuff although my situation is no where near as bad as yours sounds (childhood abuse, etc.).

Glad you liked the book. I'm still reading it, slowly . I don't think my childhood was full of physical abuse. There were certainly moments of that, but by in large all the damage was emotional/psychological. It's hard to explain, but I think we all want to feel connected to parents, and when your parent is bat **** crazy that just never happens properly.

Originally Posted by angelicgoldfish05

Maybe it is some kind of therapist trick, where they go back and forth on it, or really understate it (or overstate), just to gauge your reaction. Then they go from there with better understanding of how to work on the material with you. I don't know, just throwing things out there. I think about things way too much, to the point of over thinking.

Like my t, she goes back and forth on what happened to me being CSA or not. 1st it was CSA. Next week it was "just experimentation and bribery". Then the following week it is back to being CSA.

I wondered about this. I decided he didn't mean anything by it. I'd never mentioned that I had read about C-PTSD or that it was something I thought about. Maybe my admission surprised him. The next week he made a comment making it clear he thought I was traumatized. I don't know what "a little traumatized" would even mean. Like I suppose comparing me to that girl who was found to be tied up in her parents basement and never met people for 12 years I would be a little traumatized. Or comparing me to a holocaust victim, a little traumatized?

My old therapist didn't say a lot but when she did I thought she catastrophized too much. I've wondered how it would be if he continued to tell me I was severely traumatized. How would I process and react to that? Early on in my life I certainly had a lot more of the C-PTSD symptoms, but the further and further away from my parents I've gotten, I've mourned my childhood in little bits and now I think I'm left with a smaller but still painful wound. The strange thing is I'm not sure I need his validation. I think validation is really hard to get, it might even take finding someone with a similar circumstance to be able to understand the nuance of pain of having narcissistic parents. My old therapist certainly validated me... I think I want something entirely different from this one. I think I want him to literally make it all better by being what no one else ever was, i.e. someone who truly loves me that I can rely on. Isn't that really sad when you think about the fact he cant and he wont!

Originally Posted by angelicgoldfish05

I personally think it depends upon one's sensitivity. The more sensitive one is, the more traumatizing events will be. I believe I was "traumatized" from watching a Steven King movie when I was really little. Gave me nightmares for months. Even to this day I do not like to watch scary movies because I am too sensitive and feel like the movie is actually happening to me. Like I can't tell the difference, like I can't separate from the movie and just watch it as an outsider. I experience. Comes with being a "total empath" (as my friend once called me and pointed out to me, maybe it is true).

I've done a lot of boundary work with my mom too, and now I hold her at a great distance. My therapist has actually helped me feel not so guilty about that for the first time ever! I'd say, hold her at a distance. Love yourself enough to put yourself first. My mom could go get on meds, she could try to improve herself, but she doesn't. I've tried everything including blackmailing her to see a shrink, but she just lied about going and told me she went and the shrink told her she was "no crazier than he was." I'm pretty certain no shrink would make a comment like that after one appointment, I've never heard a shrink use the term crazy if nothing else!

Anyways, I think you're right. Sensitivity plays a part. I never thought of myself as sensitive but I've come to discover I really am. Even so I think it's like you said, people like to think of abuse in terms of physical violence and really being emotionally cast out is even more painful. Feeling unloved is painful and damaging for a kid. Kids who are bullied and outcast commit suicide, so what about the kids who are bullied and outcast by their own parents? No one wants to see it, or talk about it. I think for most people it's so unfathomable they'd rather believe no one treats their kids like that.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

Glad you liked the book. I'm still reading it, slowly . I don't think my childhood was full of physical abuse. There were certainly moments of that, but by in large all the damage was emotional/psychological. It's hard to explain, but I think we all want to feel connected to parents, and when your parent is bat **** crazy that just never happens properly.

The emotional/psychological damage is hard to pinpoint, hard to explain. My mom was pretty crazy also, I think maybe borderline, and I think my dad a little on the narcissism end. Like your mom, my mom did not take medications until it reached a point where she said she was either going to kill herself or kill someone else. She never did try to kill herself (I got to carry that torch and try 2x), but she did regularly say she was going to kill me. Still does. I know she is not serious, but maybe somewhere in my mind connects that to something and it has done something to me, I don't know. She got on meds after I left the house, so it didn't really effect me except that she is more pleasant to be around these days (still no boundaries, and it's all about her). It is a good thing, I don't think I could live with her if she were not on meds. And I have to live at home right now for the first time in 12 years (which sucks) because I can't financially make it on my own right now.

As for the book - I too am reading it slowly! I bounce around from book to book and have about 5 started that I haven't finished

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I wondered about this. I decided he didn't mean anything by it. I'd never mentioned that I had read about C-PTSD or that it was something I thought about. Maybe my admission surprised him. The next week he made a comment making it clear he thought I was traumatized. I don't know what "a little traumatized" would even mean. Like I suppose comparing me to that girl who was found to be tied up in her parents basement and never met people for 12 years I would be a little traumatized. Or comparing me to a holocaust victim, a little traumatized?

This makes sense to me. In comparison, there are varying degrees of trauma, like varying degrees of burns. So maybe yours was a 2nd degree compared to a 3rd degree holocaust victim or something. Still hurts and requires healing attention for it to get better! And still just as recognizable to others as a burn!

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

My old therapist didn't say a lot but when she did I thought she catastrophized too much. I've wondered how it would be if he continued to tell me I was severely traumatized. How would I process and react to that? Early on in my life I certainly had a lot more of the C-PTSD symptoms, but the further and further away from my parents I've gotten, I've mourned my childhood in little bits and now I think I'm left with a smaller but still painful wound. The strange thing is I'm not sure I need his validation. I think validation is really hard to get, it might even take finding someone with a similar circumstance to be able to understand the nuance of pain of having narcissistic parents. My old therapist certainly validated me...

I can't wait to get further away from my parents. I think that is where the real healing work can begin. Right now, I am still gaining a repoire with my therapist and working on trusting her. Maybe by the time I am able to move out, I will be ready to do some deeper work. As for the wound, I don't think it ever goes away but maybe we learn what it has meant for us and our lives, and how to manage it a little better. I know my relationships have all been affected by my childhood. I could write a lot about that! To say I'm not married and was afraid of having kids because I didn't want to do the same thing my parents did to me to them, explains a little more about it.

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I think I want something entirely different from this one. I think I want him to literally make it all better by being what no one else ever was, i.e. someone who truly loves me that I can rely on. Isn't that really sad when you think about the fact he cant and he wont!

Oh how I wanted this from my ex-t *so much*. I begged, pleaded, drove myself and him crazy. I knew he could do this for me and be this for me. He just chose not to. And it Broke. My. Heart.

Gosh I hope we both find this someday. I hope we all find this someday.

Thanks for your thoughtful replies Petri5ed.