[Tongalee]

These last few weeks in therapy have been really hard and my therapist and I have started approaching some of the heavier work that needs to be done. I told her something that I have been desperately holding onto with such fear that is eating me alive. I didn't want her to ever know, but I needed to tell her if that makes any sense at all. As a result, I'm finding myself incredibly attached her as she is the only safe person I know who holds this information.

We keep talking about what I needed as a little kid, but never got. I never have much of my own answer for this, but the one thing I feel that I truly want is to sit with my therapist, cuddled, while I talk to her and get all of it off my chest. While the rational, logical me knows that this can't happen, the little child part is so angry screaming "why would she ask me if we can't do it!!!???? Why make me say it, want it, then turn around and sit so far away?"

I was so upset that I cried all the way home from session. I guess I just don't understand the point of all of this. I feel like if this is something that would make this easier, and perhaps full a void that I've needed filled, why not do it? It seems do simple and innocent. It's but as though I'm not facing the emotions, just for once in my life expressing them with someone who knows what happened. I can't tell you how relieving it feels to be able to be sad and have someone understand why. I can only imagine what relief and genuine comfort would come from receiving a hug or something from someone who knows. Maybe I'm being selfish, but I feel like I've never been able to fully receive the comfort I need. I've had plenty of hugs, but none of them touch the pain because the reason I have to give for the want of the hug is always a lie either actively our by omission.

I'm not sure what I want other than to put this down, but had anyone else feeling like this, or felt this way the past? And please, I beg you, do not tell me to good a way to hug myself... this is my solitary angry phrase, I simply cannot read those words much less hear them.

[stopdog]

Sorry it is so rough.

[Petra5ed]

So I take it she has said no to hugging you? Well I'll tell you what I think based on my extensive research into this area . I think people who were traumatized as kids should be hugged by therapists, but sadly not all therapists agree with that. I don't have any advice except to keep talking about it with the understanding she probably has some kind of policy preventing her from doing it, but maybe by talking about it you can get some relief. Now a days therapists are trained by in large not to touch for liability reasons, I personally think that it is ridiculous and detrimental to some clients. In my mind, and in most peoples minds I think, there is a major difference between a hug and sexual touching... but still it is what it is. You landed with a non hugger... I've seen a non hugger in the past, and I think they are the norm actually. If you can afford it try a massage, I swear by them.

[Tongalee]

Well, to be fair we have never actually had the "hey if I asked you for a hug, could I get one?" conversation, but there have been others similar enough that the topic of boundaries came up and it seemed as though she was guarded on the topic of hugging. I fully agree with you though, I think that safe touch should be incorporated into therapy with those who have been through a trauma, esp csa. It's so necessary to be able to feel the things you weren't given and I think safe touch is definitely one of those things.

[ThisWayOut]

I'm sorry this is so hard right now.
I'm trying to think of how it felt when I told one of my t's something really heavy. It was the first time I said it, and my inner kid freaked out too. Though I think I was in a slightly different place. I wanted a hug & craved it at the time. Later i realized that, had she hugged me, it would have gotten way more confusing than it already was. I know it was related to the subject though.
I wrote t later saying my inner kid really wanted a hug, but I wasn't sure how it would be received by said inner kid. I settled on a metaphorical hug, and asked if we could figure out how to get that.
I wonder if your t worries about the actual reaction to a hug. Yes, most t's are trained away from physical contact, but those working with trauma are generally trained to think harder about it...

Sorry if that doesn't make sense. Pre-coffee ramblings...

[Soccer mom]

My T once asked what my needs were. My 7 year old self told her everything and got nothing. I cried for months. I think we have to acknowledge what we needed, didn't get and mourn the loss. Maybe find outside ways to get it. Attachment Girl on Tales of a Boundary Ninja blog talks a lot about it.

About 5 months after I said what I needed, my T gave me most of it. I'm not sure why and what changed but it meant so much more delayed than if she had given it right then. She finally told me she cared about me, wouldn't abandon me, wouldn't let me push her away and she let me start hugging her. It's been absolutely huge after months of mourning. I think I had to build up trust. I cried more about what my T wouldn't give me than over the death of my mom. It is still hard but I think you're just right in the thick of things.

And if she gave you everything, you might not grieve it, sit with it etc. Keep talking to her even to the point of saying what's the point. I just asked my T last week what the point was of getting close to her if it was going to end. I have *****ed and pushed her away over what she wouldn't give me and being scared of being close to her.

Keep going, keep talking and journal. I know how painful this is but you can do it.

[Tongalee]

Originally Posted by ThisWayOut

I'm sorry this is so hard right now.
I'm trying to think of how it felt when I told one of my t's something really heavy. It was the first time I said it, and my inner kid freaked out too. Though I think I was in a slightly different place. I wanted a hug & craved it at the time. Later i realized that, had she hugged me, it would have gotten way more confusing than it already was. I know it was related to the subject though.
I wrote t later saying my inner kid really wanted a hug, but I wasn't sure how it would be received by said inner kid. I settled on a metaphorical hug, and asked if we could figure out how to get that.
I wonder if your t worries about the actual reaction to a hug. Yes, most t's are trained away from physical contact, but those working with trauma are generally trained to think harder about it...

Sorry if that doesn't make sense. Pre-coffee ramblings...

Could I ask you why you felt that it would confuse things for you? I feel that it would really help me open up, and I couldn't see it feeling anything but freeing. It makes me wonder how others feel and how that affects how therapists choose how they feel.

[Tongalee]

Originally Posted by Soccer mom

My T once asked what my needs were. My 7 year old self told her everything and got nothing. I cried for months. I think we have to acknowledge what we needed, didn't get and mourn the loss. Maybe find outside ways to get it. Attachment Girl on Tales of a Boundary Ninja blog talks a lot about it.

About 5 months after I said what I needed, my T gave me most of it. I'm not sure why and what changed but it meant so much more delayed than if she had given it right then. She finally told me she cared about me, wouldn't abandon me, wouldn't let me push her away and she let me start hugging her. It's been absolutely huge after months of mourning. I think I had to build up trust. I cried more about what my T wouldn't give me than over the death of my mom. It is still hard but I think you're just right in the thick of things.

And if she gave you everything, you might not grieve it, sit with it etc. Keep talking to her even to the point of saying what's the point. I just asked my T last week what the point was of getting close to her if it was going to end. I have *****ed and pushed her away over what she wouldn't give me and being scared of being close to her.

Keep going, keep talking and journal. I know how painful this is but you can do it.

Did you talk through her suddenly giving on to your needs months after they first appeared? I think I would be much less likely to accept my therapists sudden acknowledgement of the needs I had been asking her for months to fill. I feel like if this keeps up I will just keep adding distance between us until I'm gone.

[ThisWayOut]

Originally Posted by Tongalee

Could I ask you why you felt that it would confuse things for you? I feel that it would really help me open up, and I couldn't see it feeling anything but freeing. It makes me wonder how others feel and how that affects how therapists choose how they feel.

I got really attached to that t down the line. There was a lot of transference that happened towards the end of therapy with her and it was never addressed. A lot of it revolved around a mother figure I lost 20 years earlier. In the end, she left equally abruptly and at the same time (5 days before the anniversary) as my aunt did, though for different reasons. Neither of us could have predicted that though, so I don't think it played into her choices. I'm pretty sure the agency strongly advises against physical contact with clients because they generally deal with recent assaults and abuse.
I've been hugged by other t's before and since without issue, but I hadn't talked about the abuse with them either... I'm really not sure how I would feel about it with current t. I think I would be equally freaked out by it as we are covering the same topics. I am not much of a hugger with strangers, but I'm much more aware of and panicked by touch if they know how dirty and contagious I am/feel...
I have to admit though, there are times I really crave/want/need caring, safe connection. Mostly it's wishing someone could "protect" me from all the things that play through my head

[SnakeCharmer]

Tongalee, you said something so important and wise and honest. It deserves to be made into a wall plaque.

I've had plenty of hugs, but none of them touch the pain because the reason I have to give for the want of the hug is always a lie either actively or by omission.

Little Tonga isn't asking for a hug, she's asking to be cuddled by T while she gets everything off her chest, which is just an extended hug. And it's no more healing than any of the many hugs you've had. Little Tonga may not believe that, but I'm talking to Big Tonga right now.

Back when I was a college student, back in the stone age, and was studying psychology, this was actually something that was being experimented with at the time, especially in Britain, with R.D. Laing and his disciples. Extensive cuddling, reparenting, even faux nursing, trying to give the adolescent or adult patient what they'd missed out on as a child. It didn't work. In fact, in some cases it was a disaster. It turns out that instead of healing, the cuddles seem to trigger demands to have ever more childish behaviors satisfied, all the way to being diapered and having every tantrum satisfied immediately.

The problem is that we can't satisfy those unmet childish needs by doing things to satisfy them now. All we can do is learn to accept that we didn't get it and it's a sorrowful thing and we feel bad about it and what can we do from here on to make our lives better. Because a hug or a cuddle or a baby bottle in the present isn't going to make up for everything that went wrong when we were young.

My mother suffered severe bouts of mental illness interspersed with episodes of being okay. I didn't get my needs met. Understatement. And therapy taught me I can live with that, with a little weirdness here and there around that edges that I have to be on guard for and do something about before it spirals out of control. But I can be okay without ever getting what I didn't get then as long as I don't get what I did -- beatings, emotional terror, attempted murder. I'm not lacking or broken or less than just because my mother was mentally ill and violently unpredictable and I didn't get my needs met.

Did I believe that to begin with. Hell no! But I believe it now. I'm pretty good at figuring out my needs now and meeting them myself and with the people I love, in a healthy way, with generous portions left over for others.

Telling your story to T is important, even if she can't/won't cuddle you. If Little Tonga needs a cuddle to tell her story, would you consider a plush stuffed toy held tightly in your arms and a blanket to cover you and keep you warm. Maybe Big Tonga has to comfort Little Tonga enough so the little one will be satisfied by being cuddled and comforted in the safe arms of Big Tonga. You are an amazing person, Tonga, with enough love and strong enough arms to keep the little one safe as you both tell T your story.

I wish you the best.

[ThisWayOut]

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

Back when I was a college student, back in the stone age, and was studying psychology, this was actually something that was being experimented with at the time, especially in Britain, with R.D. Laing and his disciples. Extensive cuddling, reparenting, even faux nursing, trying to give the adolescent or adult patient what they'd missed out on as a child. It didn't work. In fact, in some cases it was a disaster. It turns out that instead of healing, the cuddles seem to trigger demands to have ever more childish behaviors satisfied, all the way to being diapered and having every tantrum satisfied immediately.

I need to look up those experiments, but I can't picture how hugs and cuddling make such gigantic leaps to diapering. I tend to think there was more going on there, with open invitations to push the boundaries. Being held while you cry or spill emotional information doesn't automatically lead to full regression in most people. I know the t relationship is different, and there will be people to push boundaries, but... I dunno. This study has me suspect.

I'm not a fan of reparenting necessarily, but I think there's some merit to literally and figuratively holding someone in pain and allowing them to feel safe. Yes, we have to learn to meet or own needs in many ways, but sometimes it's ok to want them met by another.

[KayDubs]

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

I didn't get my needs met. Understatement. And therapy taught me I can live with that, with a little weirdness here and there around that edges that I have to be on guard for and do something about before it spirals out of control.

This just hit me in a way that made my heart jump. It's so concise yet so relevant to exactly what I've been struggling with the past few months. Not to sound cheesy, but this sheds a whole new light on my therapy experiences and what I want to be moving towards, if that makes any sense. I was so stuck on not accepting the fact that my childhood sucked and I'd never get a chance to "do it over". That I'd somehow, through therapy or a significant other or whoever, get what I missed out on decades ago. And for some reason the acceptance just hit me, reading your post. Thank you!

[rainbow8]

I understand the longing for a T to give us what we didn't get when we were little. I've had four Ts tell me that it's impossible, but I now see a T who believes otherwise. It's not exactly that she says I can make up for the past, but she can and does use somatic experiencing to make new neural pathways in my brain. She DOES give me what the child didn't get, which is a feeling of safety and calmness. She does this by holding my hand during about half of each session while we talk. I never had a secure attachment with a T until now. The touch is healing. We also hug after each session, initiated by me.

If you want to try this kind of therapy, and I know it's not for everyone, look for someone certified in somatic experiencing or other kinds of body work. The T has to be qualified. I do not want to regress to my T holding me, feeding me with a bottle, or any such activities. Holding her hand is satisfying enough.

[Soccer mom]

Originally Posted by Tongalee

Did you talk through her suddenly giving on to your needs months after they first appeared? I think I would be much less likely to accept my therapists sudden acknowledgement of the needs I had been asking her for months to fill. I feel like if this keeps up I will just keep adding distance between us until I'm gone.

No I haven't for several reasons. The first is Im afraid things would change. This is a theme with me due to my mom. It means so much more that she gave it now without me asking. Second, I think I've opened up more recently so maybe she's really getting it now. Third, I'm also not mean to her anymore. As she said, she was walking the plank for months. And another T said she would give me what she thought I needed in her own time. Overall it means more now than it would have when I asked for it. Also I don't think my inner child is as outspoken. I have felt more like an adult the past month.

But the past 8 months have been the most painful of my life. I would have never started if someone told me it would be this hard.

[Tongalee]

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

Tongalee, you said something so important and wise and honest. It deserves to be made into a wall plaque.

Little Tonga isn't asking for a hug, she's asking to be cuddled by T while she gets everything off her chest, which is just an extended hug. And it's no more healing than any of the many hugs you've had. Little Tonga may not believe that, but I'm talking to Big Tonga right now.

Back when I was a college student, back in the stone age, and was studying psychology, this was actually something that was being experimented with at the time, especially in Britain, with R.D. Laing and his disciples. Extensive cuddling, reparenting, even faux nursing, trying to give the adolescent or adult patient what they'd missed out on as a child. It didn't work. In fact, in some cases it was a disaster. It turns out that instead of healing, the cuddles seem to trigger demands to have ever more childish behaviors satisfied, all the way to being diapered and having every tantrum satisfied immediately.

The problem is that we can't satisfy those unmet childish needs by doing things to satisfy them now. All we can do is learn to accept that we didn't get it and it's a sorrowful thing and we feel bad about it and what can we do from here on to make our lives better. Because a hug or a cuddle or a baby bottle in the present isn't going to make up for everything that went wrong when we were young.

My mother suffered severe bouts of mental illness interspersed with episodes of being okay. I didn't get my needs met. Understatement. And therapy taught me I can live with that, with a little weirdness here and there around that edges that I have to be on guard for and do something about before it spirals out of control. But I can be okay without ever getting what I didn't get then as long as I don't get what I did -- beatings, emotional terror, attempted murder. I'm not lacking or broken or less than just because my mother was mentally ill and violently unpredictable and I didn't get my needs met.

Did I believe that to begin with. Hell no! But I believe it now. I'm pretty good at figuring out my needs now and meeting them myself and with the people I love, in a healthy way, with generous portions left over for others.

Telling your story to T is important, even if she can't/won't cuddle you. If Little Tonga needs a cuddle to tell her story, would you consider a plush stuffed toy held tightly in your arms and a blanket to cover you and keep you warm. Maybe Big Tonga has to comfort Little Tonga enough so the little one will be satisfied by being cuddled and comforted in the safe arms of Big Tonga. You are an amazing person, Tonga, with enough love and strong enough arms to keep the little one safe as you both tell T your story.

I wish you the best.

I first want to thank you for your response. I fully understand your point and concern, but I wonder if we aren't talking about separate things. I see the extensive cuddles as something that could possibly lead to further attachment that has make potential for issue such as tantrums and faux nursing. But I don't see this as being to that same extreme. Even big Tonga is on board that this isn't just a childhood wish, this has been with me my entire life and though I'm not so far from childhood I find myself having a hard time seeing the wish for comfort as a childish want. How many of us go home to a husband at the end of a long, hard day and ask for a hug? How many return to a trusted person after something bad happens looking for a safe bit if touch to remind them that they've survived and there are people who care. I see my wish in much the same way. I need to start discussing things that are very difficult. This means knowingly giving myself bad days. This is a hard thing to do as most of us know. The want to be sat next to, to have my hand held, or a shoulder to rest my head on for a bit of comfort, for a recognition that I am not alone should not be considered so far from the norm that it leads to regression and the want for diapering. I'm not looking for a mom, I'm not asking for a mom, I simply want the luxury of knowing what it feels like to be close and safe with the one person who knows what's happened and can tell me I've survived and there are people who care. It doesn't stop the emotions, and has potential to make them more present as it would feel safe to let them out. It allows for processing with potential to hinder flashbacks and dissociation.

If this is something that is uncomfortable for her own personal reasons, I fully understand and respect that. The wish will not stop, but my asking surely would. However if this is the case, I ask her to please not attempt to put it on me. It's not my need her that poses the problem but instead her need to keep her personal comfort and safety. I totally understand this, I do and I respect the world out of it, for I too know what it's like to touch and be touched by force and I would never ask this of her.