[clairelisbeth]

I have a question for the forum about a friend of mine who is also in therapy. I feel that she is manipulating her therapist, and that she is also manipulating me. (I'm not sure if it's ok to be asking a question that isn't specifically about my own therapy, so if it isn't, mods please feel free to remove this post).

Here's the deal: My friend has a long history of a pretty severe eating disorder. Recently, a new symptom popped up within the context of her ED, something that has the potential to become medically dangerous very quickly. I fully believe that her eating disorder is real, but for some reason, I wasn't buying this new symptom. I put a few things together from many conversations over time, and I have a feeling that she read about this symptom on a pro-ana forum, and forced herself to start using it. It was something about the way she talked about it-it seemed like she was playing a game, rather than really struggling with something scary and painful.

I get the feeling that her REAL aim is getting attention from her therapist, and she felt that in order to make herself stand out from other patients and get attention, she needed to be engaging in an unusual symptom, and she also needed to be doing something very medically dangerous. Either her T is wise to her and doesn't want to reinforce her by giving her attention, or she's clueless about the fact that this could actually be legitimately dangerous….but either way, she isn't making a big thing out of this at all.

My friend is getting angrier and more desperate. She desperately wants validation from someone in the medical community/mental health community. She's been asking medical professionals who are friends of hers for their opinion (and if she doesn't get an answer akin to "Omg, you're horribly sick, you need to seek medical attention ASAP!" then she will ask someone else). I've talked to her about the potential dangers of engaging in this symptom, and I get no reaction-she doesn't say, "I know, I'm scared, but I'm also struggling"-just, nothing. From her reactions, its almost as though she WANTS to this to become medically dangerous-she wants to end up in the hospital, she WANTS her T to worry about her.

I'm feeling angry and hurt, because right now, I'm assuming that she's been manipulating me and using me. Watching her play games with her T also boils my blood. I'm definitely having some feelings and reactions of my own around this. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to weigh in on how to handle the situation. I've even considered calling her therapist, because my friend DOES need help-but her T isn't getting all the info. Advice?

[Ad Intra]

In your friends past, did she get enough attention when something went wrong with her?
Realities is that it is so hard to tell and the only person who knows if she's being manipulative is her. There could be a need she needs met and having ED concerns is the only way she knows how to show she's in trouble.

[stopdog]

Talk to the therapist I see is how I would handle it. I would not interfere with or attempt to, the therapy of a another adult

[clairelisbeth]

Originally Posted by Ad Intra

In your friends past, did she get enough attention when something went wrong with her?

She was a parentified child-both of her parents struggled with addiction, and so she had to be a little adult. I know that she also had some health problems as a child, and so she might view getting care and nurturing through being sick as a positive thing.

[clairelisbeth]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Talk to the therapist I see is how I would handle it. I would not interfere with or attempt to, the therapy of a another adult

I definitely am going to talk to my own T, bc I have spent hours upon hours comforting her, listening to her and giving her advice, and I'm angry and hurt.

I normally would never think of interfering-the only reason I was considering it is because it involves a medical situation.

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[stopdog]

Certainly I would agree you get to have your feelings about it.

I do not think anyone gets to interfere in another adult's life - even if one thinks there is a medical situation. If your friend does not want to take care of herself medically, that is her prerogative.

[clairelisbeth]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Certainly I would agree you get to have your feelings about it.

I do not think anyone gets to interfere in another adult's life - even if one thinks there is a medical situation. If your friend does not want to take care of herself medically, that is her prerogative.

I see your point-it is her prerogative. Maybe instead, I need to look at my reaction and why this is upsetting me so much (besides the obvious "this is my friend, and I don't want her to die" thing).

This might sound terrible and I am probably going to sound like an awful person, but I kind of want to catch her in the "trying to get attention" act. But why?? Why on earth do I care??

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by clairelisbeth

This might sound terrible and I am probably going to sound like an awful person, but I kind of want to catch her in the "trying to get attention" act. But why?? Why on earth do I care??

It does not sound terrible to me, but I think it the sort of thing that would be beneficial to explore with your therapist before acting on it.

[NowhereUSA]

She may very well be manipulating the situation and at the same time, her need is no less real. It doesn't mean you have to cater to it though.

I don't know her history other than the bit you give and I can see how perhaps she might feel desperate for what she is missing. When we're children, ideally we get our attention from our parents and if our parents are health we learn from an early age how to get attention in a healthy, appropriate way (because everyone needs attention in some form and amount). If that doesn't happen... well I guess I can see this as not unlike a toddler acting out in a bid for attention because something inside her is empty. Idk. Can't say for sure.

It doesn't give her the right to treat you poorly nor does it mean you have to feel okay about the situation. It doesn't sound like she wants to listen and beating your head against the wall isn't going to do much good anyway.

I don't know what the behavior is, but it seem so sad and tragic that she feels she needs to resort to this to get attention. Wanting attention and care isn't bad. It sounds like she is very sick in many ways and hasn't healed enough to figure out how to get attention in healthy ways. I think you are a good friend to want to help. Maybe try to keep being compassionate and look at how sad and sick she is to do this.

[Lauliza]

I would not contact her therapist. She has already talked to her T about it and she is an adult. I understand your anger and frustration and you don't sound awful. It's hard but try not to take get behavior personally. I would just go over it with your own T and explore what's going on with you.

[Ididitmyway]

If I see my friend engaged in a potentially dangerous behavior, I would tell her honestly what I think about it because I believe that's what friends are for. If I consider someone a friend, I am not going to just sit and watch them engaging in self-destructive behavior without saying anything. However, once I say it, I no longer get emotionally invested in what they do, meaning that I would not try to persuade them to do what I think is best for them. They are an adult and it's not my place to take care of them. Caring is not the same as taking care. Caring to me is being honest about what I think and coming from a compassionate place when I do that. Taking care is trying to influence someone's choices, and while it may come from the good intention, it's an inappropriate interference in the life of an adult.

That being said, I would talk to my friend in the hope that she will listen and self-reflect on her behavior, but I would not contact her therapist. I would talk to her once and then will leave her alone and would refuse to discuss this topic again since I've already given her my opinion.

[Favorite Jeans]

What do you get from this friendship?

I'd explore with my T why I was getting so drawn in to someone else's deeply troubled life. Is it a sense of loyalty? Nostalgia? Fear of what might happen if you take a step back?

[Partless]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

If I see my friend engaged in a potentially dangerous behavior, I would tell her honestly what I think about it because I believe that's what friends are for. If I consider someone a friend, I am not going to just sit and watch them engaging in self-destructive behavior without saying anything. However, once I say it, I no longer get emotionally invested in what they do, meaning that I would not try to persuade them to do what I think is best for them. They are an adult and it's not my place to take care of them. Caring is not the same as taking care. Caring to me is being honest about what I think and coming from a compassionate place when I do that. Taking care is trying to influence someone's choices, and while it may come from the good intention, it's an inappropriate interference in the life of an adult.

That being said, I would talk to my friend in the hope that she will listen and self-reflect on her behavior, but I would not contact her therapist. I would talk to her once and then will leave her alone and would refuse to discuss this topic again since I've already given her my opinion.

This is a great answer. Sometimes people get over-involved and other times they say oh this person is an adult so shut up. But to me this post captures the right approach of a person who cares for their friend, not too close and not distant either.

Thank you Ididitmyway.

[growlycat]

This is a hard situation. You have the right to set limits and boundaries with your friend. After being honest about the effect she is having on you, you can say "I can't engage in this topic anymore until you do x"---an ultimatum if needed.

It means being willing to lose a friend which is scary. I lost a friend this way but in the end it saved me from a very toxic relationship. I emphasized that although I can listen and be supportive, in the end she needed treatment which she refused to do. I was caught up in a bad dynamic where she wanted me to take care of her.

[anilam]

Talking to your T about this whole RS esp whether it is not damaging to you sounds like a great idea.
Honestly, if I were in your place, watching s.o. I cared about deeply destroying herself I would need to set pretty strict boundaries to protect myself: on contact/things discussed... Potentially removing myself from that RS.
Sure, how she lives her life it's her decision but so it's mine and I would not play the role of fussing over her, contacting her T, bearing witness to her killing herself... In it.

ETA: Yeah and as I can see Growly just said it and said it better

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by clairelisbeth

I see your point-it is her prerogative. Maybe instead, I need to look at my reaction and why this is upsetting me so much (besides the obvious "this is my friend, and I don't want her to die" thing).

This might sound terrible and I am probably going to sound like an awful person, but I kind of want to catch her in the "trying to get attention" act. But why?? Why on earth do I care??

Maybe because you love her, and it's less frightening if she's doing it for attention, than if it's really 'real' and she's just checked out of caring about her own safety on a deeper level with this new symptom?

[granite1]

I have not read a lot of the responses so sorry if this has been said. I think you are a great friend for paying attention to this . I think in the beginning your friend didn't have an ed is had to start at some point . this new symptom has to have a starting point also ,right. does it matter if she got it from reading and is trying it out. seeing if it has some value to her . I would hope that she is able to get the help she is looking for .

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by clairelisbeth

I have a feeling that she read about this symptom on a pro-ana forum, and forced herself to start using it.

"Life immitates art"