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  #26  
Old Jun 01, 2015, 12:35 PM
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Perna Perna is offline
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Location: Maryland
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There is a difference between not being able to talk and not talking to make a point or get a reaction from another. If someone asks you a point-blank question about yourself, "What do you want to talk about?" shrugging is an insult, says you do not care, the person you are with is not worth even so much as an, "I don't know" worded response.

To a therapist with such a client, responses to a shrug are limited? It becomes a will struggle and if someone has borderline tendencies and catering to such behavior does not do the client any good since the world will not cater to such and it is that which has brought the client to see the therapist in the first place? So the therapist stays there (she did not get up and walk away like a person in the real world would do), available for the person but in waiting mode. Even when I found it hard to talk, I had my therapist start doodling (pre-cell phones :-) on her note pad. I called her on it (the OP did not call her therapist on the phone fiddling, did not tell the therapist what she thought or felt about it, she just up and quit with no explanation to the therapist; tried to engage the therapist with a negative review on her web page, which did not work out well; and then came and told us) and she explained to me that, since I had engaged her and presumably wanted to work on my problems which she could not know/comment/help with until I told them to her, she was waiting until there was something from me that she could engage with. I found it very informative and we had a bit of a discussion about silence and the difficulties therapists have (not just clients) on knowing when to talk and when to remain silent and the difficulty I had with talking, what that felt like and what I wished from her, etc. Therapists are not mind readers and can't know what we are thinking or needing or would like from them unless we tell them. That it might appear to us that they are mind readers or idiots or however else we see them, that is our perception only and has to be checked with the other person as to whether it matches up with what they are thinking, feeling, doing, etc.
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  #27  
Old Jun 01, 2015, 12:58 PM
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Creative ToFu Creative ToFu is offline
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Location: In a Lost World
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I am not borderline but if I was, I would deserve quality therputic treatment just like everyone else. Just because someone is borderline doesn't mean they deserve rude treatment or actions from a T to gaslight the situation.

The presumptions that someone with borderline tendencies are ALWAYS being manipulating is one of the biggest stigmas in the industry that is false. This prejudice is why many suffer today because they are thought of being someone with an untreatable condition. This sometimes leads T's who have no training with this population to instigate abusive bully like behaviors. Telling a client that they will NEVER learn is outright emotional abuse regardless if she was a T or not.

The OP has indicated through many posts of the horrible treatment by this T. He has
found somebody new who can help him, a T who did not agree with how the OP was treated by the other T. I tend to believe in supporting this poster who came here for support.
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“Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.” Martin Luther King, Jr.
Thanks for this!
clairelisbeth, stopdog, TangerineBeam
  #28  
Old Jun 01, 2015, 12:59 PM
Anonymous37890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perna View Post
There is a difference between not being able to talk and not talking to make a point or get a reaction from another. If someone asks you a point-blank question about yourself, "What do you want to talk about?" shrugging is an insult, says you do not care, the person you are with is not worth even so much as an, "I don't know" worded response.

To a therapist with such a client, responses to a shrug are limited? It becomes a will struggle and if someone has borderline tendencies and catering to such behavior does not do the client any good since the world will not cater to such and it is that which has brought the client to see the therapist in the first place? So the therapist stays there (she did not get up and walk away like a person in the real world would do), available for the person but in waiting mode. Even when I found it hard to talk, I had my therapist start doodling (pre-cell phones :-) on her note pad. I called her on it (the OP did not call her therapist on the phone fiddling, did not tell the therapist what she thought or felt about it, she just up and quit with no explanation to the therapist; tried to engage the therapist with a negative review on her web page, which did not work out well; and then came and told us) and she explained to me that, since I had engaged her and presumably wanted to work on my problems which she could not know/comment/help with until I told them to her, she was waiting until there was something from me that she could engage with. I found it very informative and we had a bit of a discussion about silence and the difficulties therapists have (not just clients) on knowing when to talk and when to remain silent and the difficulty I had with talking, what that felt like and what I wished from her, etc. Therapists are not mind readers and can't know what we are thinking or needing or would like from them unless we tell them. That it might appear to us that they are mind readers or idiots or however else we see them, that is our perception only and has to be checked with the other person as to whether it matches up with what they are thinking, feeling, doing, etc.
You've given one interpretation of shrugging. There could be many other reasons why someone does that.

And the client DID call the therapist out for playing on her phone. The therapist said "I have needs too." What does that mean? That seems really inappropriate in a therapy relationship. The client is better off without this passive aggressive, childish therapist.
Thanks for this!
Creative ToFu, stopdog, TangerineBeam
  #29  
Old Jun 01, 2015, 01:23 PM
Anonymous37917
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When I shrug, I am communicating something much different than disrespect. I might be unable to articulate what I need to talk about due to shame, fear, or the lack of words to put to the agenda. Sometimes it means I am totally trapped in my head and unable to even form an agenda for that day. Sometimes it means that I am feeling hopeless and it would not help to talk about anything. My T has never, NEVER gotten his phone out to play when I was unable to speak and not once has he mentioned his own needs in session, other than to say that my therapy is not where he gets his needs met.
Thanks for this!
BudFox, Creative ToFu, stopdog, TangerineBeam
  #30  
Old Jun 01, 2015, 01:31 PM
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Creative ToFu Creative ToFu is offline
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Posts: 229
Orangebish,
I want to know that I support you 100% and think you have done the right thing by getting a new T.
I don't like the way this thread started to go though at the end, so I am stepping out for a bit (nothing you did.)
__________________
“Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.” Martin Luther King, Jr.
Thanks for this!
TangerineBeam
  #31  
Old Jun 01, 2015, 01:50 PM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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Yes - shrugging to me would be something other than disrespect too. I am not BPD but I really hate the assumptions and meanness made towards people that have been given that label.
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Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
Thanks for this!
clairelisbeth, Creative ToFu, TangerineBeam
  #32  
Old Jun 01, 2015, 02:02 PM
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precaryous precaryous is offline
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Member Since: May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,901
I don't think you over-reacted. I wish you good luck finding a new T.

My T says that all I need to do is show up. If I need to sit there or lay there in silence, then that's what we'll do. She usually asks questions, what am I feeling? Etc.

Therapy is not about T's needs.
Thanks for this!
Creative ToFu, TangerineBeam
  #33  
Old Jun 01, 2015, 02:29 PM
TangerineBeam TangerineBeam is offline
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Member Since: Mar 2015
Location: England
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creative ToFu View Post
I am not borderline but if I was, I would deserve quality therputic treatment just like everyone else. Just because someone is borderline doesn't mean they deserve rude treatment or actions from a T to gaslight the situation.

The presumptions that someone with borderline tendencies are ALWAYS being manipulating is one of the biggest stigmas in the industry that is false. This prejudice is why many suffer today because they are thought of being someone with an untreatable condition. This sometimes leads T's who have no training with this population to instigate abusive bully like behaviors. Telling a client that they will NEVER learn is outright emotional abuse regardless if she was a T or not.

The OP has indicated through many posts of the horrible treatment by this T. He has found somebody new who can help him, a T who did not agree with how the OP was treated by the other T. I tend to believe in supporting this poster who came here for support.
Thank you, this means so much to me. I'm so overwhelmed by your words, I think I'm on the verge of crying.

Thanks to everyone for your support.
Hugs from:
Anonymous200320, BudFox, Creative ToFu, growlycat, precaryous
Thanks for this!
Creative ToFu
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attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




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