[Kat605]

Hey everyone,
I'm in the US. And have several friends that live in other countries, mostly the UK, england, scotland, Ireland and canada. As my passion is supporting anyone who is reaching out for help and helping them find a therapist I'd like to know more about how people access therapy in these and other countries.
So here in the US there are tons of websites where therapists put adds and you can see them privately, pay privately. And it appears that option is there in these countries as well. I don't see anything about insurance, as in therapists being covered or not under any health insurance. I know that insurance is very different in other countries. I know that many places it says to just call your GP/ Dr. But am wondering if there are other ways to find therapy if you can't do private pay. So basically for someone who haslike medicaid in the US what would that translate to in other countries and how would they access therapy? This is important as I try to help people navigate the system and I would like to know how this system works in other countries. Thank you.

[maykins]

I live in Israel and we have mandatory basic health care insurance (the fees get deducted from your pay as health tax).

The health care compamy provides subsidized psychiatric and/or psychological care (very cheap, 100NIS per session which is approx 30USD). The "catch" is you have a closed list of professionals and you can only use them.

The alternative is private additional health insurance, which may cover psychiatric and/or psychological care. I don't use this because I'm already diagnosed so they won't cover it now.

Even though all of that, I've tried both psychiatric and psychological treatment through the public health care and even tried a few different professionals and was always disappointed. So nowadays I go for both private psychotherapist (300NIS per session, once a week) and private psychiatrist (500NIS per session, once every 3 months) and I am pleased with them even though it's expensive.

I found my T through online search (and basic luck) and my pdoc was a referral by my T.

Here in Australia we have govt programme where your GP refers you to a T (strict guidelines as to what a T is educational wise) and you get 10 govt subsidied visits a year. (big deal) What I did was i tried a T my GP referred me to, but she was less than useless I then saw 2 others on my own money. The last one I saw is obviously my present T. I just went through the phone book til I ound one that clicked then saw my GP to refer me officially.

I forgot to say that you pay the gap between Ts fee and govt subsidy amount. Some T will discount in hardship conditions. The first one I saw did'nt give a **** about my hardship. I think maybe it was clinic policy not to discount.

I can't comment on people who have private health insurance

Originally Posted by Bipolarartist

Here in Australia we have govt programme where your GP refers you to a T (strict guidelines as to what a T is educational wise) and you get 10 govt subsidied visits a year. (big deal) What I did was i tried a T my GP referred me to, but she was less than useless I then saw 2 others on my own money. The last one I saw is obviously my present T. I just went through the phone book til I ound one that clicked then saw my GP to refer me officially.

I forgot to say that you pay the gap between Ts fee and govt subsidy amount. Some T will discount in hardship conditions.

I managed to get 14 i think but you have to go back to your gp to get another form filled. But it is stupid that that is it for the year unless you pay yourself. Because 14 sessions will fix all your problems lol i hate our current government you used to be able to get up to 20 before mr abbott.

Originally Posted by eden1515

I managed to get 14 i think but you have to go back to your gp to get another form filled. But it is stupid that that is it for the year unless you pay yourself. Because 14 sessions will fix all your problems lol i hate our current government you used to be able to get up to 20 before mr abbott.

I remember I used to 16 for the year. That used to take me through to mid year and with careful budgeting I could manage the rest of year going every 3-4 weeks.

chances are people in other countries will know better how to find resources in their country than you will know...

just saying... i easily find people condescending who are trying to help me (my issue). like, if someone in another country was trying to research something for me (which i could obviously do myself), i would find that annoying... i would feel like a child.

like if i started explaining the american government to you, that would be insulting.

in any country (i would imagine) the first place to ask is the gp... (if not the local mental health center).

[mandehble]

I don't really know what medicaid is, so I can't answer that part. Here in Ontario, PDocs are covered under the provincial health insurance plan (no cost at all) but individual therapy is not covered. Usually things like short term crisis counselling are available for free. Sometimes stuff like that can be waitlisted, though. I tried to get into a program for sexual assault counselling and I had to wait three months - by that time, severely depressed and deep in denial and didn't return their calls. There are probably some other options I'm not thinking of right now, but generally having private insurance seems to be the only way get a T and be able to afford to see them. I plan on starting a therapy fund so that I can get quality therapy someday with the T of my choice.

Originally Posted by Bipolarartist

I remember I used to 16 for the year. That used to take me through to mid year and with careful budgeting I could manage the rest of year going every 3-4 weeks.

Yeah it was good now not so much

[ThingWithFeathers]

As bipolarartist says, we have a limit of 10 sessions subsidised by the government. But...we have a lot of community and social services that provide free counselling to eligible clients. For example, I see my t weekly and have no limit on how long I receive services. This is a non-profit community organisation for those who have experienced csa or sa. Their belief is that it takes as long as it takes to heal, that the standard of 10 sessions p/y is not enough when working through these issues. So we have options, if eligible, for different services. I don't pay a cent.

Originally Posted by ThingWithFeathers

As bipolarartist says, we have a limit of 10 sessions subsidised by the government. But...we have a lot of community and social services that provide free counselling to eligible clients. For example, I see my t weekly and have no limit on how long I receive services. This is a non-profit community organisation for those who have experienced csa or sa. Their belief is that it takes as long as it takes to heal, that the standard of 10 sessions p/y is not enough when working through these issues. So we have options, if eligible, for different services. I don't pay a cent.

Wow we don't have non-profit org that specialises in csa here, you are most lucky. But there more resources in metropolitan areas i suppose.(I am making a huge assumption you live in or near a capital city, apologies if you don't)

[divine1966]

I am a bit confused. You want to help people navigate their systems in their countries yet you don't know their systems and are asking people to explain their systems to you? . I have hard time comprehending the point behind it. I am not sure how you can help people navigate their systems if you don't know what those systems are? Wouldn't it be more helpful if you help people in your own area that you are familiar with?



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Originally Posted by divine1966

I am a bit confused. You want to help people navigate their systems in their countries yet you don't know their systems and are asking people to explain their systems to you? . I have hard time comprehending the point behind it. I am not sure how you can help people navigate their systems if you don't know what those systems are? Wouldn't it be more helpful if you help people in your own area that you are familiar with?

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Some people confuse wanting to help with wanting to be omniscient. But I get triggered by saviour dynamics so should probably avoid this thread...

[ThingWithFeathers]

Originally Posted by Bipolarartist

Wow we don't have non-profit org that specialises in csa here, you are most lucky. But there more resources in metropolitan areas i suppose.(I am making a huge assumption you live in or near a capital city, apologies if you don't)

Yeah, you're right. I do live in a metropolitan area. But there is a national phone line to call. I have no doubt that if you live in a remote or regional area it will be harder to find a service. My service is state-based (there are offices in regional areas). There is also a national contact number that might be able to help. Happy to pm you the state I'm in or the national 24hr number, if you are interested.

I am trying to be constructive this time.

How did you find mental health support? Think back to how you did. Then maybe share with people your experience... like... hey, i dont know what its like in your country, but when i didnt know where to go for help, these are the steps i took...

that way it is less like you are the expert of their country and more like you are just sharing your experience (which, in my experience, is a million times more helpful than someone approaching me as an expert... we benefit from the experiences of others, not from their knowledge so much, especially in any peer-format).

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by somat

Some people confuse wanting to help with wanting to be omniscient. But I get triggered by saviour dynamics so should probably avoid this thread...

I don't object to help and accept help with no issues and love to help people myself. I just don't understand offering help to others in something I know nothing about. I see no logic in it.

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Originally Posted by divine1966

I don't object to help and accept help with no issues and love to help people myself. I just don't understand offering help to others in something I know nothing about. I see no logic in it.

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Objecting to the saviour dynamic is very different than objecting to help. I get frustrated with this in AA all the time... and sometimes with therapists... For me, if someone is taking on the expert role without being asked to or having the qualifications for it... that is part of the saviour dynamic that I am triggered by.

[mandehble]

Originally Posted by somat

Objecting to the saviour dynamic is very different than objecting to help. I get frustrated with this in AA all the time... and sometimes with therapists... For me, if someone is taking on the expert role without being asked to or having the qualifications for it... that is part of the saviour dynamic that I am triggered by.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. When someone takes on the role of saviour without being asked, they're communicating that they believe themselves to be in a higher position than the people to whom they are giving unsolicited 'help'. They can then feel justified in becoming indignant when they are met with resistance because they're 'just trying to help'. In a similar vein, it can be harmful to offer to help with something if you don't actually know that you can help with it, that is, if you then find yourself unable to help and you end up leaving the person high and dry. If you end up doing more harm than good, your intentions, however altruistic they may have been, don't matter.

All that said, maybe I didn't read the post closely enough, but I thought the OP was just curious about healthcare in other countries.

[stopdog]

I took it as just being curious too. I would urge caution before labeling people with things such as savior complex.

[Kat605]

Hi everyone,
To try to respond to everyone.
Thanks everyone who gave me info on how things work in Israel and australia and Canada. I can see similarities and differences and it's really cool to know the different organizations I'm sorry about the session limets, LOL like someone said it's not like our problems get solved in ten sessions or 16 or whatever. I'm glad that you were able to then find your own t and Pdoc that worked for you and then just had the Dr. fill out the official form. It's good to know not everything has to go through them and that you do have choices.
I love hearing about the organizations that offer free therapy to those that have had trauma in their lives and their aproach that it takes as long as it takes. I would agree and wish there were more places like that in all areas.
For the person setting up a therapy fund I think that's a great idea and would be willing to donate, probably would be like $5 but every bit helps.
For those confused about all this. Yes of course obveously I would help those in my own country as well as other countries. When I see people on my e-mail list, forumm, facebook ETC who are saying their totally overwhelmed have done all they can do on their own to research and are just exhausted I ask if they need help. Similarly if their in crisis and need help quickly I offer to. So far no one has said no, if they did of course I'd respect that. Always people have been happy to have the information to at least know what steps they can take and what's available, and are grateful that someone was able to take over the research part which is often the most daunting part of things.
As I said many are from this country. However just as I'm asking here I'd ask about how things work in their state in order to best be helpful as with medicaid it varies from state to state. And yes I have had to explain our health system to people from the US LOL!
As far as my qualifications I have a BS in counseling psychology. And have done information and referral work in all my internships. Above all else I've personally dealt with the ways you get the run around when searching for and advocating for resources in the mental health/ human services system and have wished there was someone there to offer to help. Which is why I do it. I'm sorry if this offends anyone.

[PinkFlamingo99]

I'm in Canada and even my therapy is covered now because I'm part of a hospital outpatient program. I have had therapy covered in the past too, I saw her for 3 yrs in a clinic in the psych hospital. Generally, you need to have been referred by a psychiatrist for this kind of thing covered by medicare.

Pdoc is free since it's a medical dr and covered under medicare that everyone has, and I pay a max of $80/month for my meds.

Originally Posted by Kat605

When I see people on my e-mail list, forumm, facebook ETC who are saying their totally overwhelmed have done all they can do on their own to research and are just exhausted I ask if they need help. Similarly if their in crisis and need help quickly I offer to. So far no one has said no, if they did of course I'd respect that. Always people have been happy to have the information to at least know what steps they can take and what's available, and are grateful that someone was able to take over the research part which is often the most daunting part of things.

Some feedback on this: the off-putting part, for me, was the way you asked the questions in a very US-centric manner. There is no equivalent to "people who are on Medicaid" in most countries in the world, and where I live health insurance, as an American would understand it, usually doesn't enter into it at all. We do have health insurance but it's a very different creature from what you have. It looked like you wanted us to respond in a way that would fit into the US system, and that simply isn't possible for most of us.

I started writing a short summary of how the Swedish system works, but I'm not going to post it, because if somebody who does not live in Sweden and does not speak Swedish was to try to use a three-paragraph summary in order to help someone in a crisis, it couldn't possibly be helpful. You can always point Swedes to psykologiguiden.se , they list a lot of licenced psychotherapists and have a pretty good search function from what I can tell. Or tell them to go to the website for their county council, which is responsible for health care; providers who work within the system will generally be listed there (and they may or may not need a referral, and they may or may not offer unlimited sessions. My psychotherapy is free because my therapist is also a psychiatrist, he is authorised to offer unlimited sessions, and doesn't need a referral - but that doesn't apply to all practitioners.) If the people you talk to don't speak Swedish, and need health care in Sweden, they will probably need to use the phone anyway since most of the content in most of the relevant websites won't be in English.

[PinkFlamingo99]

The internet can be a bit "American-centric" but it doesn't bother me like it seems to bother a lot of people. I end up explaining a lot that I don't have insurance lin the same way.

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

The internet can be a bit "American-centric" but it doesn't bother me like it seems to bother a lot of people. I end up explaining a lot that I don't have insurance lin the same way.

Sure, human communication is a matter of adapting to the person you're communicating with. I wouldn't be on these boards if I wasn't comfortable doing that. But when you are explicitly addressing a group of people who do not share your cultural and societal context, you'll need to adapt in such a way that you don't use specialised terminology that is specific to your culture or your society. Just like you do when you explain about insurance in Canada. It's something we do without thinking when we speak because there are so many more cues from our listener, but in writing it's very easy to forget or simply not realise that we're using a culture-specific language. That's why I wanted to point it out to the OP.

[divine1966]

There is also language component in play. How is someone going to help people in Hungary ( example) to look for therapists, unless you speak Hungarian?

Sure language on forums is pretty much always English yet it's important to remember many people do not live in English speaking countries or are not native speakers.

I live in the U.S. and obviously speak English and do it well as I hold professional job and masters degree but it's not my native language. I started speaking it in adulthood, so unless I pay attention I do make mistakes in sentence structure.

It never bothers no one in real life. It was funny to me when someone on PC was criticizing my writing. I am trilingual, I do make mistakes in two of my languages, heck now maybe in all three lol

it is inevitable that such forum is American/ English centered but let's not forget there are way more countries and languages than US and English

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I am in the UK and there is very little health insurance here as we have universal free health care on the NHS, that said, therapy is not covered comprehensively and is usually only available in a time-limited format. You would access this through a GP referral and would probably have to wait a while to be seen. I found my T privately through this site: BACP Find a Therapist - Counselling and psychotherapy | It's good to talk
Even though you do have to pay to see a T for any lengthy period here, I understand the fees are far more affordable than what is average in the US. For example I pay £40 per hour to see current T and my last T was £30 per hour. That figure would probably be somewhat higher in London.