Ts declining to work with me

I may be the only one who has approached it like this - but when I started with my new T I didn't say anything about myself on the phone. I simply phoned and asked if I could come for a consultation.

I'm sorry about the reaction you had from the two Ts. I think that it maybe because you had not quit yet.

Thanks. I'll be less informative!

I honestly didn't think of that right away.... because I told them both I am with a T now, but looking into making a change.

I seriously felt like they didn't want to see me because of my issue with my T...not the fact that I am still seeing her. I feel a little better, now that I realize that's probably the issue. I just thanked them for their time. I suppose I could always ask....

First of all, I think it's awesome you are looking for a new T! That shows a lot of self-care. Sorry it's not going well. However, what you're doing may be somewhat equivalent to wanting to find someone to date, but before you get to the restaurant, emailing your prospective date and telling them that under no circumstances should they cheat on you.

On the one hand, of course they shouldn't cheat on you, but on the other, that really doesn't need to be said. Throwing out 'I need firm boundaries' before you've even sat in a chair with someone strongly implies that you have a tendency to push boundaries (which isn't even the case!)

I think you should just contact new therapists about therapy, keep the rupture stuff under your hat initially (you say therapy is important to you for a variety of reasons, so keep it about you and not your hopefully soon to be ex-T.)

The fact is, 99.9999999% of therapists aren't going to snuggle you, hold your hand, call their daughter and coo to her over the phone, etc. The simple truth here is, you're highly unlikely to ever run into this issue ever again because therapists who aren't selfishly making therapy about them don't cross those boundaries anyway. Most people in therapy probably never, ever have to discuss boundaries ever.

If you keep in mind that a typical professional therapeutic relationship occurs purely in the therapy room, largely does not involve out of session contact and does not involve touchy feely stuff, you'll be fine. I think the only way you'll run into trouble is if you try to cling to some of the things in your relationship with your soon to be ex-T which were never okay in the first place, hand holding, texting, lots of emails, etc. Those things aren't normal, aren't considered therapeutic, and will cause issues with the next therapist.

This issue was created by your soon to be ex T. You can certainly adress it in therapy, but I don't think you should be dragging it in as the most important thing up front. It's going to get in the way of the real reasons you actually want therapy, and, as you develop a proper, healthy therapeutic relationship with someone, you'll see how whacky it all really was.

Good luck!

Very good points, thank you! I guess I am being overly cautious....afraid to be hurt again. I would be fine with a T who offers NO touch at all (even hugs), as long as they are consistent about it. I think my T and I possibly felt more like friends and T/C relationship....and that's probably why things got hard. I see that now. I had rose colored glasses on before...

Musing, I hope you know it's perfectly okay to ask for help in dealing with the effect this therapist has had on you. You can work on more than one issue, but what happened here is likely going to have created trust issues for you with a new therapist; if not, that's great, but otherwise please don't feel you have to keep this under wraps or consider it over and done with if it's not.

Speaking from experience, it's hard to get back to your original issues until you've had a chance to look at and understand what happened so that you begin to trust enough to work with someone new. Besides, it's often related somehow; that is, what drew you to her may be a replay of something else that's a deeper issue.

Thank you!

I totally agree with all of this. Very well said, Sky.

I am VERY proud of you, MusingLizzy, for taking steps towards finding a new T. I know what a difficult choice that has been for you. Just making contact with potential new T's is wonderful news. You will have my support with whatever decision you make.

Skyscraper - i was going to use a dating a cheater example! Great minds think alike! but i went with the restaurant metaphor instead

Telling a therapist what you expect from them is not wrong. These are people you hire. Clients are allowed to tell the therapist what they expect.

I don't think that was the context in which that analogy was being used.

I had fixed it

My wife doesnt understand me!

If people keep nitpicking everything i say, im gonna start to think... well idk what im gonna think.

I agree to a point, but it is an approach that can be very off-putting to someone who hasn't even met you yet. It's kind of like if I start the first day of class with a long list of rules about every possible thing students might do wrong that will get them in trouble. Some teachers do that, but many students will shut down immediately feeling like they are already being bossed around and that the worst is already being assumed about them before the teacher has bothered to get to know them. Yes, I do present some rules, but I do my best to keep it to a minimum and focus more on what we can accomplish together and on building relationships in my classroom as a priority.

I can see a therapist being wary of a client who already seems to assume they are going to screw up. (Not saying that's what the OP is doing; just saying it may be coming off that way since they don't know her, and rather than going there, they'll just turn her down right off the bat rather than risk that kind of dynamic.)

I found it useful for me, when interviewing all the ones I did this time, to tell them what did not work for me - most acted like they were listening and none told me not to come back - I didn't go back except to the second one I see - but it was my choice - not theirs.

I would find it perfectly reasonable when interviewing one of the to say that there had been a bad experience with a therapist who screwed around with touch and then was punishing when it was withdrawn and how would the new one handle such a thing.

Clients can tell their therapists whatever they like. They can tell a potential therapist that they think they are a moon goddess and that they like to touch the tip of their tongue to the other person's nose when greeting them. Nobody's saying what a client can and can't do. People are trying to offer constructive solutions for getting a new T.

Musing seems to be having a problem retaining a therapist when she brings the boundary issues up first and foremost - and I think that she could be accidentally setting off red flags for potential therapists which aren't even there.

The boundary issues were never hers. They were created by the unprofessional therapist. And while I 100% agree that the trauma should be adressed at some point, if every T she contacts and starts with the boundary /ex-T issue runs a mile, then it's silly to not at least consider the idea that the wrong impression might be being created by leading with that.

Therapy isn't dating, but therapists do get to choose their clients. And just as most people wouldn't want to date someone who brings up the fact that they don't want to be cheated on before a date has even started, a therapist may very well find a client who says 'you have to have really good boundaries with me' to be a huge red flag, because to someone unaware of her situation, that may very well sound like she's a boundary pusher, or some kind of therapist seducer, or suffering from a much more serious, hard to treat condition. When in reality, that's just not the case.

There's nothing to be lost from at least leaving that issue until the first face to face meeting, where it can be properly explained in some kind of context rather than over email where it could be misconstrued half a dozen ways from Sunday.

If you want to be bloody minded about it and say 'well I can say what I want, how I want, and it works for me, so it should work for everyone' and completely ignore the fact that most people aren't approaching therapy the same way, with the same expectations and the same needs, then I guess that's all well and good, but I don't think it is helpful. Bluntly telling therapists what you expect is fine when what you want from them is basically to sit there and shut up. It's not quite so easy when you're coming from a place of fresh trauma that isn't even over yet, and when you are clearly sending up red flags for more than one therapist. In those situations, I don't think there's anything wrong with re-evaulating one's approach if one wants to actually engage a new therapist.

And I think I offered constructive information also.
Different from some, but that does not make it not constructive. And I have never, ever said everyone or even anyone else needs to do something my way or that things work the same way for everyone. I was merely saying my way has worked for me and I have not had the dire consequences predicted by some and I am direct with them whether in person or on the phone.

I very much believe clients interview therapists to hire - a therapist is not doing a client a favor by allowing a client to pay to see them

I don't see musing sending up any red flags by asking for consistency; I hear her asking for a therapist who is steady and not randomly changing the rules of engagement. A red flag would be, I need you to keep me from wanting to hug you and text you and contact you outside session. She is asking for a therapist to be safe and steady because she's been harmed by one that was not.

It seems much more likely that the issue with the two who declined to see her is that she is still seeing this therapist. There's no way for them to know what they're wading into. Will anything they say be taken back to this other therapist? Will they be working at cross purposes? And who knows what else could go wrong. I get why it would be concerning to them. What I don't see is musing presenting herself as someone who's a boundary buster.

Well we dont know what she said in the second email that they reacted to. Its like the lost 18 minutes of the Nixon tapes.

I do think it is very good to be doing something about finding a new one.

I think you should give very little information about yourself in your initial phone call/email, which is what people often do when looking to hire a T. I've never given any info about myself and issues beyond a few brief sentences- I don't think the phone or email is appropriate for that. All a potential new T needs to know before you meet is that you need a therapist and what your insurance is if that applies. Maybe specifics if you need a specialized T like one who deals with trauma or autism, but that is it. Anything else can be saved for face to face meetings. I wouldn't divulge you're still with a T until you actually meet because that is something many won't want to get involved with. Just like when you're meeting anyone new, keep it simple until you've had a real life meeting and determined that you "click".

Don't want to gross Stopdog out and all. But walking in and telling a new therapist that you are still seeing another one might be a little like a guy telling a woman that he wants to check her out to see if he wants to date her before getting rid of the girlfriend he's got now.

I see no problem doing that with a therapist. It is very different from dating and even with dating - I see no reason one can't date more than one person at a time.
But I do see two therapists and it works for me. It might not work for anyone else (although it is really not a big deal nor difficult). Perhaps I found non-needy therapists who don't need to be exclusive.

I agree with both points, but think that's a discussion to have when you meet face to face the first (or second) time. I don't think there's anything wrong with dating more than one person either, but you'll have more luck getting the first date if you wait to divulge that info.

I agree with you, and I did it myself. But I didn't tell them about each other for a long time, and even then, my original therapist never found out. I based what I said on how it seems therapists in general want 'exclusive' relationships. I think it might be because of the emotional component of therapy for most people. Your set-up isn't like that though. Therapy based on an emotional connection is not what you're after. And the reason the dating analogy doesn't seem 'the same' to you, is because of how your therapy specifically excludes emotional connection.

eta: You know how often we've read on here about clients not wanting to know their therapist even sees other clients, and clients even being jealous of the therapist's children (or spouse!)